Champions League 2nd Round: Olympiakos vs Manchester Utd, Tuesday 25th, 19:45

LuckyLloyd

The Bible wrote:

As the Philistine moved closer to attack him, David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet him. Reaching into his bag and taking out a stone, he slung it and struck the Philistine on the forehead. The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.

Interesting game this. You can currently get the Greeks as high as 11 / 4 for the win.

Nemanja Vidic believes Utd can win the competition:

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1726272/nemanja-vidic-manchester-united-do-special-champions-league?cc=5739

Nemanja Vidic believes Manchester United can win the Champions League to provide a fairytale ending to his time at the club.

United take on Olympiakos at the Karaiskakis Stadium on Tuesday for the first leg of the last-16 clash, after sealing a 2-0 win at Crystal Palace in the Premier League on Saturday.

The result leaves United 11 points behind fourth-placed Liverpool, who won 4-3 against Swansea the following day, and winning the Champions League seems to be their best chance of returning to the competition next season.

Even though a triumph in the tournament would seem improbable, Vidic -- who will leave Old Trafford in the summer -- is adamant United can pull off a shock.

"I believe we can do something special in the Champions League," he told reporters. "I really do. If we play solid like we did [against Palace], keep our shape, I think we will be a hard team to beat. We always have people who can score goals and that is the way you play in the Champions League -- be hard to beat, but be able to score."

David Moyes fielded the attacking quartet of Adnan Januzaj, Robin van Persie, Wayne Rooney and Juan Mata -- signed for 37.1 million pounds in the January transfer window -- for the first time at Selhurst Park, and was rewarded with an encouraging attacking display.

"We know that they all, in their own way, have great ability," Moyes said. "Juan needs to go and play and be involved in the play. He has his jobs to do when we don't have the ball -- he has to do that as well.

"We try to make sure they are interchangeable, Wayne, Robin and Juan, and we are trying to make them difficult to play against, difficult to mark. I thought today Juan gave us something different. He gave us a lot of the ball.

"Robin can drop in and get the ball. Wayne dropped in. We wanted him to get more of the ball. We went to Wayne up top in the last 15 minutes and we can play Adnan as a centre-forward. He can play any role, he's such a good player. Juan can play off the sides... really on any given day we might choose to play them in any positions."

The Palace performance was an undoubted step in the right direction for Moyes but the task at hand here will be different. Expect a white hot atmosphere in the Karaiskakis Stadium. Really Utd should be able to take care of business given the limitations of the opposition on paper (Saviola being the main striker tells its own story). It has been proven over the past decade that you don't need to be a great team or performing brilliantly in your domestic league to win it. Can Utd emulate Liverpool and Chelsea in that regard? Journey starts (or maybe ends) here...

RasTa

I think the Greek fans are banned for this.

Lucas Hood

Should be winning this easily enough but that never seems to be the case anymore, I'll be happy with an away goal and a clean sheet.

Agueroooo

expect Utd to win over both legs but even taking into account the poor standard of the Greek Premier league Olympiakos are having a pretty impressive season...


Olympiakos P26 GD+69 POINTS:74


running away with the league and only conceded 9 goals.

Nuri Sahin

I'm fairly sure I read yesterday that Saviola will miss or is likely to miss the game this week due to an injury picked up this weekend.

United to win 2-0.

Its All Wright

Olympiakos have no recognised strikers for this match. United at 6/5 is a great bet

LuckyLloyd

RasTa wrote: »

I think the Greek fans are banned for this.

Really? The atmosphere there would be vital for them to have any hope.

Cantona's Collars

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

I'm fairly sure I read yesterday that Saviola will miss or is likely to miss the game this week due to an injury picked up this weekend.

United to win 2-0.

He is injured,they now have no strikers.

UnitedIrishman

Biggest hope in Europe this year is if Vidic and Rio and the lads who are leaving rally around and look at it as a last chance to win something big in their career.

Fancy us to get a 2-0 win out there.

Boskowski

You guys seriously believe you can win the champions league?

UnitedIrishman

Boskowski wrote: »

You guys seriously believe you can win the champions league?

We have about 1% chance of doing it. But might aswell cling onto that 1%!

TheDoc

Boskowski wrote: »

You guys seriously believe you can win the champions league?

Chelsea and Liverpool proved that league form means sweet **** all when it comes to the Champions League, as have plenty of teams in the competitions history.

In terms of this tie, confident we can get through.

Mocha Joe

Boskowski wrote: »

You guys seriously believe you can win the champions league?

Yep.

Its All Wright

Boskowski wrote: »

You guys seriously believe you can win the champions league?

Anything can happen in the knockout phases of the Champions League like Chelsea beating Barcelona in the Nou Camp with 10 men in a season where there league form was poor

Morzadec

Boskowski wrote: »

You guys seriously believe you can win the champions league?

Not a United fan (a fearful Liverpool fan in fact), but on recent years you can't write them off, no way. History shows it is possible. Here's some reasons:

1) Porto, Liverpool, Chelsea - all example of teams that were not great that won Champions Leagues.

2) Liverpool finished on 58 points in 5th place the season they won, Chelsea 6th on 64 points the season they won. Teams performing poorly in the league CAN win the Champions League.

3) Chelsea won it with a manager of almost no standing. Teams with managers of little big match experience CAN win the Champions League.

4) United do have a couple of players of outstanding quality - RVP only needs one chance, Rooney is capable of something special as well. The way ties become finely balanced and can swing quickly on away goals means that a CL match has an added mental edge to it. Teams that deal well with this pressure, the swings in mentality, when to stick, when to twist, can offset advantages that their opposition have in quality.

5) Crowd influence - CL matches are massive occasions. The fact they are at night add to the atmosphere. English grounds can be difficult places to go due to this atmosphere. It often seems to bring something out of the players. It's another variable.

6) However poorly United are doing, they do have some players of big match experience who know what it takes to win.

7) The draw could potentially serve up an easy route for United.

One would expect them to qualify against Olympiakos - not foregone but they are favourites. Then they are in the quarters. Imagine the quarter draw is something like this.

Barca vs Bayern
Madrid vs PSG
Chelsea vs Dortmund
United vs Atletico

Atletico have shown signs in recent weeks that they could be crumbling, finding it hard to maintain a challenge on 3 fronts - they don't have a big squad. United make it through with a draw in the Calderon and a win at OT.

Big teams could get drawn against each other, thinning the field of quality. Imagine Barca turn over the mighty Bayern and face Madrid in the semis. Chelsea beat Dortmund and face United in the semis. Then you have 2 English teams playing against each other, 2 teams that know each other well. Chelsea have half an eye on the Premier League, where as United focus solely on the CL. Mourinho is a cautious manager who sets out his stall to not lose first and foremost. Moyes does likewise. A drab 2 legs ends goalless and United win on penos.

United are in the final. They face Barca in a one-off game - winner takes all. They ride their luck a decision or 2 goes their way, they manage to nick a goal, maybe they hang on maybe they get pegged back and win on penos.

The above is a scenario in which a lot needs to go United's way, but we have seen far stranger things.

I will certainly be watching their matches nervously, because I can almost see the scenario now - Liverpool finish convincingly ahead of United in the league only to be denied by a sneaky CL win. I'm bracing myself for it now so it's not so sickening if it happens!

Kirby

Morzadec wrote: »

Big teams could get drawn against each other, thinning the field of quality. Imagine Barca turn over the mighty Bayern and face Madrid in the semis. Chelsea beat Dortmund and face United in the semis. Then you have 2 English teams playing against each other, 2 teams that know each other well. Chelsea have half an eye on the Premier League, where as United focus solely on the CL. Mourinho is a cautious manager who sets out his stall to not lose first and foremost. Moyes does likewise. A drab 2 legs ends goalless and United win on penos.

United are in the final. They face Barca in a one-off game - winner takes all. They ride their luck a decision or 2 goes their way, they manage to nick a goal, maybe they hang on maybe they get pegged back and win on penos.

The above is a scenario in which a lot needs to go United's way, but we have seen far stranger things.

I will certainly be watching their matches nervously, because I can almost see the scenario now - Liverpool finish convincingly ahead of United in the league only to be denied by a sneaky CL win. I'm bracing myself for it now so it's not so sickening if it happens!

Tell us, oh time travelling man, who wins the world cup? :P

Joking aside, I agree with you. Its a cup competition. It's a possibility.

Its All Wright

Morzadec wrote: »

Not a United fan (a fearful Liverpool fan in fact), but on recent years you can't write them off, no way. History shows it is possible. Here's some reasons:

1) Porto, Liverpool, Chelsea - all example of teams that were not great that won Champions Leagues.

2) Liverpool finished on 58 points in 5th place the season they won, Chelsea 6th on 64 points the season they won. Teams performing poorly in the league CAN win the Champions League.

3) Chelsea won it with a manager of almost no standing. Teams with managers of little big match experience CAN win the Champions League.

4) United do have a couple of players of outstanding quality - RVP only needs one chance, Rooney is capable of something special as well. The way ties become finely balanced and can swing quickly on away goals means that a CL match has an added mental edge to it. Teams that deal well with this pressure, the swings in mentality, when to stick, when to twist, can offset advantages that their opposition have in quality.

5) Crowd influence - CL matches are massive occasions. The fact they are at night add to the atmosphere. English grounds can be difficult places to go due to this atmosphere. It often seems to bring something out of the players. It's another variable.

6) However poorly United are doing, they do have some players of big match experience who know what it takes to win.

7) The draw could potentially serve up an easy route for United.

One would expect them to qualify against Olympiakos - not foregone but they are favourites. Then they are in the quarters. Imagine the quarter draw is something like this.

Barca vs Bayern
Madrid vs PSG
Chelsea vs Dortmund
United vs Atletico

Atletico have shown signs in recent weeks that they could be crumbling, finding it hard to maintain a challenge on 3 fronts - they don't have a big squad. United make it through with a draw in the Calderon and a win at OT.

Big teams could get drawn against each other, thinning the field of quality. Imagine Barca turn over the mighty Bayern and face Madrid in the semis. Chelsea beat Dortmund and face United in the semis. Then you have 2 English teams playing against each other, 2 teams that know each other well. Chelsea have half an eye on the Premier League, where as United focus solely on the CL. Mourinho is a cautious manager who sets out his stall to not lose first and foremost. Moyes does likewise. A drab 2 legs ends goalless and United win on penos.

United are in the final. They face Barca in a one-off game - winner takes all. They ride their luck a decision or 2 goes their way, they manage to nick a goal, maybe they hang on maybe they get pegged back and win on penos.

The above is a scenario in which a lot needs to go United's way, but we have seen far stranger things.

I will certainly be watching their matches nervously, because I can almost see the scenario now - Liverpool finish convincingly ahead of United in the league only to be denied by a sneaky CL win. I'm bracing myself for it now so it's not so sickening if it happens!

Liverpool could win the league....if they had a solid defence. Great going forward but very poor at the back. As a United fan i would love to push Liverpool out of the Champions League spots by winning the tournament but i think Liverpool will end up 3rd ahead of Arsenal so i wouldnt be too worried about it happening. The longer United stay in it though the more nervous fans of Liverpool, Arsenal etc will get though

RasTa

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Really? The atmosphere there would be vital for them to have any hope.

On further reading it's just part of their north stand. Not sure how many

Morzadec

Kirby wrote: »

Tell us, oh time travelling man, who wins the world cup? :P

Joking aside, I agree with you. Its a cup competition. It's a possibility.

I've hedged my bets a bit now, looking like a footballing prophet will be a little bit of a consolation if United do win it!

World Cup will be won by Uruguay, injury time Suarez handball by the way

DazMarz

United will find it very, very hard to win the Champions League. Nigh on impossible, in my opinion. Stranger things have happened, I know, but the potential last 8 for this years' Champions League is looking like one of the strongest Quarter Finals in memory. So many past champions, so many teams in very strong positions.

They will beat Olympiakos, but after that. Even a crumbling Atletico side or an injury-ravaged Dortmund (arguably the two "weakest" teams that will most likely progress to the quarter-finals) would prove to be a very, very tough challenge for United.

Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea or PSG would all beat United over two legs. Atletico and Dortmund could also both manage it. I also think that that order (Bayern, Barca, Real, Chelsea, PSG, Atletico, Dortmund) is going from best to worst in terms of teams that will probably be potential opposition for United.

Even with a huge slice of luck and the draw going United's way and the field being thinned out towards the business end, I just don't think United are good enough. They will beat Olympiakos, no question about that. I reckon United will do it 3-0 or 4-0 on aggregate.

After that, it is indeed in the lap of the gods. Admittedly, there have been times in very recent memory (Chelsea in 2012 being the most "infamous") where a complete underdog at the quarter-final stages (never mind latter stages) has gone on to win the bloody thing. Napoli had Chelsea by the balls in the quarter finals of 2012. Only pure grit, a Frank Lampard penalty and a Branislav Ivanovic late winner in extra time saw Chelsea progress. Getting past Benfica without too many issues saw the unbelievable tie against Barca. Then the final against Bayern. For me, one of the best nights of my life. For everyone else (especially Spurs fans): "Those fúcking BASTARDS!!!"

But I think that people look to Chelsea's run a bit unfairly; Chelsea were admittedly falling apart in the League. But that was due to mismanagement by AVB more than anything. The squad was still very strong on paper: Cech, Cole, Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Lampard, Luiz, Mata, Drogba, Malouda (still decent back then!) and so on. It was a sick run of results to get. And the big players stood up and were counted when it mattered. None moreso than Cech and Drogba, both of whom essentially won the final for the club.

United have some very impressive players in their ranks; DeGea, Van Persie, Rooney, Januzaj... but lacking a bit in midfield where other clubs have a wealth of options who could tear through the middle and gut United without much trouble. United's defence is also suspect at times. A strong attacking side (Bayern, Barcelona, Real, etc.) would wreak havoc there. Evra arguably being the weakest link at LB. Opponents would know this and would be able to concentrate their attacks down United's left flank and would be almost guaranteed joy at some point.

But hey, as Morzadec mentioned, anything's possible. I just don't think it will happen. If it does, I think boards will go into meltdown.

Donnielighto

Hey quick thing. Imagine if chelsea dropped to 4th and united got them in the final, serious game.

Actually dont 4th get it anyway now?

DazMarz

Donnielighto wrote: »

Hey quick thing. Imagine if chelsea dropped to 4th and united got them in the final, serious game.

Actually dont 4th get it anyway now?

If Chelsea drop to 4th and finish there, and assuming United finish in 5th or lower and then United subsequently win the Champions League, United get the Champions League next season, Chelsea straight into the Europa League.

Same as happened when Spurs finished 4th in 2012. Chelsea finished 6th. But as Chelsea won the CL, they got into the Champions League (at the group stage too) while Spurs got the Europa and Arsenal had to go through the qualifying stage.

The chances of any occurrence you mention happening (Chelsea getting to the Champions League final, United winning the Champions League, Chelsea facing United in the Champions League Final) are all pretty slim. I don't expect Chelsea to get to the Final. Depending on the draw and so on, I expect it to be a Bayern v. Real final with Bayern retaining their crown.

Utopia Parkway

Realistically I don't think United have much of a chance at all of winning the CL. I know outsiders have won it before but I just think there are too many good sides in it this year. Bayern, Barca, The two Madrids, PSG, Dortmund, Chelsea. Just too much quality there. A lot of years you get some very beatable teams in the last 8 and occasionally even in the last 4 but it looks particularly strong this year. That said you never know but very very unlikely I would imagine.

The_Kew_Tour

TBH we be doing well to win this tie over 2 legs.

This is going to be closer then bookies suggest imo.

United to come through just about.

irishfeen

I'll go United 4-2 over two legs .... 2-1 United in each.

Paul Tergat

Hope Mata plays well

united thread joke

Will I Amnt

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Hope Mata plays well

united thread joke

They're well up to date with the happenings in that thread

messinkiapina

I've a feeling this one will be over after the 1st leg. United to win the game and score 2 or 3 away goals.

Rayne Wooney

No guarantee in this, and the way United have played this season we could easily lose

I think we'll score a few but I can't see the Greeks not scoring.

If we get through we'll probably get one of the big boys and we'll probably get taught a lesson, stranger things have happened though and it all depends on the draw.

onemorechance

Michel og. Anyone remember this guy? :pac:

"This kind of situation may weigh too much on their players' shoulders," said 50-year-old Michel.

BBC

Roy Carroll:

"They look nervous. Every time you watch them this season you just feel that the opposition will score. It's weird - you don't associate that with Manchester United."

"Manchester United are having a bad time of it at the moment and our players have belief in themselves. We believe we can do well in these two games, and we feel we can get at them," Carroll told BBC Sport.

"We are hoping to keep a clean sheet at home in the first leg and if we can do that we back ourselves to score at Old Trafford. We have been working on United's defensive problems in recent days; that's what we have to do.

"You have seen all season that they have been chopping and changing at the back. As a goalkeeper I know the effect of not having a settled back four and we have seen that from United this year. It's a different back four every game."

BBC

United are having their toughest season in years, while Olympiakos are as well off as Celtic are in Scotland.

Olympiakos beat Anderlecht twice, drew with and beat Benfica, and lost twice to PSG.

United won all their home games, drew away to both Shakhtar and Real Sociedad, and probably United's season highlight so far, beat a previously unbeaten Bayer at home, 5-0.

Rafael and Welbeck are back. Hope Rafael starts. Interesting to see will Danny start; he did great in the Real Madrid games last season. Kagawa back in for cup-tied Mata? Olympiakos have a striker shortage. Should be a United win. Should be looking to replicate the Bayer game.

Team:

De Gea
Rafael Rio Vidic Evra
Valencia Carrick Fellaini Januzaj
RVP Rooney

Johner

Olympiakos are obviously a weaker team with Mitroglou gone to Fulham and with Saviola injured its going to be tough for them, the way Michel was talking Valdez might be fit "He's alive and that's all I am telling you," but if he doesn't make it the young Nigerian Olaitan will more than likely lead the line.

The dangerman is Joel Campbell and he will cause United all sorts of problems. He's quick and skilfull and looks a fantastic talent. They have a very solid defence but can be vulnerable from set pieces. They were well in the game at home to PSG for 65 minutes with Weiss scoring a lovely goal to make it 1-1(Weiss also moved in January to Qatar) but PSG then scored from 3 corners! and won well in the end. They easily beat Anderlect home and away, beat Benfica at home and were unlucky to draw away to them.

If you asked me a few months ago I would have said Olympiakos had a great chance to go through, they still have a good chance and they might nick it tonight but I think it could be a draw. I'd go for 1-1 and any other year that would be enough for United but this year that scoreline would still give Olympiakos a chance at Old Trafford.

DoctorGonzo08

Boskowski wrote: »

You guys seriously believe you can win the champions league?

To be fair, I would love Utd to win it, just for the absolute hilarity if Liverpool were to end up finishing 4th!

greendom

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

To be fair, I would love Utd to win it, just for the absolute hilarity if Liverpool were to end up finishing 4th!

Liverpool would still qualify for CL. Rules have now been changed. Looks like Spurs are the only team to suffer that fate.

DoctorGonzo08

greendom wrote: »

Liverpool would still qualify for CL. Rules have now been changed. Looks like Spurs are the only team to suffer that fate.

Aaah. Right back, that's dissapointing. But back to reality, I don't see why Utd can't make a run at the CL this year. Another favourable draw in the next round and anyone of the last 4 could take it.

Julez

greendom wrote: »

Liverpool would still qualify for CL. Rules have now been changed. Looks like Spurs are the only team to suffer that fate.

I don't think that's in effect until 2015.

bren2001

Julez wrote: »

I don't think that's in effect until 2015.

What is the change in rule? The winner of the CL gets a spot but it is not taken from the countries allocation?

Julez

bren2001 wrote: »

What is the change in rule? The winner of the CL gets a spot but it is not taken from the countries allocation?

I brought this up in the United thread a couple of weeks ago, I can't seem to find a definite on whats actually happening and if they've actually decided to go ahead with it, there are many news stories like this but nothing that definitely confirms it (that I can see anyway).

bren2001

Julez wrote: »

I brought this up in the United thread a couple of weeks ago, I can't seem to find a definite on whats actually happening and if they've actually decided to go ahead with it, there are many news stories like this but nothing that definitely confirms it (that I can see anyway).

I couldn't find anything officially confirming it. Either way, it does not apply next year. The current regulations state the maximum number of teams from one country is 4. New regulations come into effect from 2015 on.

Whatsisname

Mark Ogden &#8207 wrote: »

Man Utd: DeGea; Smalling Vidic Ferdinand Evra; Valencia Carrick Cleverley Young; Rooney van Persie.

Joke

DazMarz

Man Utd: DeGea; Smalling Vidic Ferdinand Evra; Valencia Carrick Cleverley Young; Rooney van Persie.


Wouldn't be great...

No Mata for a start.............

NUTZZ

Man United XI - De Gea Smalling Ferdinand Vidic Carrick Cleverly Valenica Young Rooney Van Persie

Confirmed on MUTV

Pudsy33

Kagawa must have killed someone. Getting sick of his exclusion. Reckon his united career is as good as over. Shame.

NUTZZ

Subs: Lindegaard Giggs Hernandez Welbeck Kagawa Buttner Fellaini

No Januzaj

Nolars

After seeing that lineup I wont be surprised if tis 1-0 or 1-1

mike65

Crosses! I see crosses! Anyone know if the Olympiakos CBs are tall or small?

Rayne Wooney

Well we're probably going to lose now

Moyes looks to ruin the positive signs showed at the weekend with crosses

shadowcomplex

Morzadec wrote: »

Not a United fan (a fearful Liverpool fan in fact), but on recent years you can't write them off, no way. History shows it is possible. Here's some reasons:

1) Porto, Liverpool, Chelsea - all example of teams that were not great that won Champions Leagues.

2) Liverpool finished on 58 points in 5th place the season they won, Chelsea 6th on 64 points the season they won. Teams performing poorly in the league CAN win the Champions League.

3) Chelsea won it with a manager of almost no standing. Teams with managers of little big match experience CAN win the Champions League.

4) United do have a couple of players of outstanding quality - RVP only needs one chance, Rooney is capable of something special as well. The way ties become finely balanced and can swing quickly on away goals means that a CL match has an added mental edge to it. Teams that deal well with this pressure, the swings in mentality, when to stick, when to twist, can offset advantages that their opposition have in quality.

5) Crowd influence - CL matches are massive occasions. The fact they are at night add to the atmosphere. English grounds can be difficult places to go due to this atmosphere. It often seems to bring something out of the players. It's another variable.

6) However poorly United are doing, they do have some players of big match experience who know what it takes to win.

7) The draw could potentially serve up an easy route for United.

One would expect them to qualify against Olympiakos - not foregone but they are favourites. Then they are in the quarters. Imagine the quarter draw is something like this.

Barca vs Bayern
Madrid vs PSG
Chelsea vs Dortmund
United vs Atletico

Atletico have shown signs in recent weeks that they could be crumbling, finding it hard to maintain a challenge on 3 fronts - they don't have a big squad. United make it through with a draw in the Calderon and a win at OT.

Big teams could get drawn against each other, thinning the field of quality. Imagine Barca turn over the mighty Bayern and face Madrid in the semis. Chelsea beat Dortmund and face United in the semis. Then you have 2 English teams playing against each other, 2 teams that know each other well. Chelsea have half an eye on the Premier League, where as United focus solely on the CL. Mourinho is a cautious manager who sets out his stall to not lose first and foremost. Moyes does likewise. A drab 2 legs ends goalless and United win on penos.

United are in the final. They face Barca in a one-off game - winner takes all. They ride their luck a decision or 2 goes their way, they manage to nick a goal, maybe they hang on maybe they get pegged back and win on penos.

The above is a scenario in which a lot needs to go United's way, but we have seen far stranger things.

I will certainly be watching their matches nervously, because I can almost see the scenario now - Liverpool finish convincingly ahead of United in the league only to be denied by a sneaky CL win. I'm bracing myself for it now so it's not so sickening if it happens!

That made me hard you should write porn fiction or some sort of erotica novel and no it wouldn't be sickening it would be the so ****ing sweet

Lord TSC

Basically, thats the team Moyes likes when he wants to play safe.

Expect an early goal and then a parked bus.

Dolph Starbeam

mike65 wrote: »

Crosses! I see crosses! Anyone know if the Olympiakos CBs are tall or small?

5'11" and 6'2 according to Soccerway.

bad2dabone

Arsenal's Joel Campbell starting for olympiakos tonight I believe. Looking forward to seeing him play, the wee Costa Rican scamp.

UnitedIrishman

I'm revising my prediction. 1-1 with a pox away goal late on saving our blushes.