Argument with landlord, HELP

robbiezero

goat2 wrote: »

personally if i were in the owner of the house in question
and had a person dilly dallying over a bill,
i would be very annoyed,
it is something a cannot do.
the ball is in her court,

if only it was, but it's through her window.

Eldarion

I'm actually amazed that all this is over 45 euro. Why this is still on either the tenant's or LL's mind is beyond me.

davo10

Eldarion wrote: »

I'm actually amazed that all this is over 45 euro. Why this is still on either the tenant's or LL's mind is beyond me.

I'd agree with you 50%, why the OP is whining is beyond me, he broke the window and having had to replace windows in my own home , €195 is not bad. I think the LL and neighbour have a right to be annoyed, this guy broke the window and is refusing to pay because the LL had it fixed to her satisfaction.

coffee_cake

150 plus vat is 190, just pay it

Pkiernan

Man up. Pay up.

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

I'd agree with you 50%, why the OP is whining is beyond me, he broke the window and having had to replace windows in my own home , €195 is not bad. I think the LL and neighbour have a right to be annoyed, this guy broke the window and is refusing to pay because the LL had it fixed to her satisfaction.

She also tried to claim a 55 euro expense because it was "windy and dangerous" when the window was installed. That puts the rest of the quote into suspicious area imo.

Arbiter of Good Taste

runawaybishop wrote: »

She also tried to claim a 55 euro expense because it was "windy and dangerous" when the window was installed. That puts the rest of the quote into suspicious area imo.

Neither here nor there. If she can provide a valid invoice for €195, then that's what the OP needs to pay. The €55 may have been the LL taking the pi$$, but that does not invalidate the €195 cost. If she can't provide an invoice, then that's a different story.

davo10

runawaybishop wrote: »

She also tried to claim a 55 euro expense because it was "windy and dangerous" when the window was installed. That puts the rest of the quote into suspicious area imo.

Agreed, I'd only pay what the glazier invoiced LL. If I was her, I would show OP the invoice, tell OP this was what it cost to repair the damage he caused and leave it at that.

runawaybishop

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Neither here nor there. If she can provide a valid invoice for €195, then that's what the OP needs to pay. The €55 may have been the LL taking the pi$$, but that does not invalidate the €195 cost. If she can't provide an invoice, then that's a different story.

I would not dismiss it out of hand. The LL is entitled to replace like for like, not get an upgrade for example. The disparity in the quotes (33% at a minimum) indicates this may not be the case and her behaviour trying to gain a further 25% out of the OP would defiantly entitle the OP to ask questions.

davo10

runawaybishop wrote: »

I would not dismiss it out of hand. The LL is entitled to replace like for like, not get an upgrade for example. The disparity in the quotes (33% at a minimum) indicates this may not be the case and her behaviour trying to gain a further 25% out of the OP would defiantly entitle the OP to ask questions.

Have you had to replace a window?, you don't put triple glaze in a double glaze frame, nor PVC in a wood window. You can't upgrade part of a window.

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

Have you had to replace a window?, you don't put triple glaze in a double glaze frame, nor PVC in a wood window. You can't upgrade part of a window.

This is nonsense. You can get higher grades of glass, frame and gas fill which can result in significant cost differences.

davo10

runawaybishop wrote: »

This is nonsense. You can get higher grades of glass, frame and gas fill which can result in significant cost differences.

On a single window at the side of a house? Give me a break, all the LL will want to do is fix the window and stop the phone calls from the tenant.

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

On a single window at the side of a house? Give me a break, all the LL will want to do is fix the window and stop the phone calls from the tenant.

Why do you have a problem with accepting that this is possible?

Kimbot

The only issue I see here is the extra 55 she is charging for been windy/cold out. If its not on the invoice then she cannot charge it.

The 195 is what she paid to get the glass repaired, you should pay this price and not a penny more or a penny less and she has already paid it. You dont get a choice in the matter of who fixes her window.

For all you know the reason the bill is 195 is because it was classed as an emergancy call out so that would drive the price up. Ringing companies and asking for a price on a certain size window and fitting may not include the emergancy call out fee so just pay up and get on with life.

runawaybishop

jonny24ie wrote: »

The only issue I see here is the extra 55 she is charging for been windy/cold out. If its not on the invoice then she cannot charge it.

The 195 is what she paid to get the glass repaired, you should pay this price and not a penny more or a penny less and she has already paid it. You dont get a choice in the matter of who fixes her window.

For all you know the reason the bill is 195 is because it was classed as an emergancy call out so that would drive the price up. Ringing companies and asking for a price on a certain size window and fitting may not include the emergancy call out fee so just pay up and get on with life.

If the OP is paying the 195 euro then he is entitled to know what it is for, especially since it looks like she already tried to pull a fast one. If it is legit then the call out charge will be mentioned.

davo10

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why do you have a problem with accepting that this is possible?

Because the first question I would ask myself is, "what is the point of upgrading one part of a small window?" When it would differ from every other window and door in the place. The second reason is that I have had this happen to a house I own, I rang the supplier, asked them to fix it asap so my tenant would stop phoning me every couple of hours asking when it would be fixed, no way would I want them to upgrade it, what's the point, I told them to just fix the damn thing.

davo10

runawaybishop wrote: »

If the OP is paying the 195 euro then he is entitled to know what it is for, especially since it looks like she already tried to pull a fast one. If it is legit then the call out charge will be mentioned.

No he isn't, he is required to pay for its repair as he broke what was a window which functioned without any known complaint.

Kimbot

runawaybishop wrote: »

If the OP is paying the 195 euro then he is entitled to know what it is for, especially since it looks like she already tried to pull a fast one. If it is legit then the call out charge will be mentioned.

Well has the OP seen the actual invoice for 195 and queried it with the company? Different companies charge different rates and im baffled as to how companies can quote for glass over the phone without seeing the damage and job at hand in the first place, not all windows are the same.

davo10

jonny24ie wrote: »

Well has the OP seen the actual invoice for 195 and queried it with the company? Different companies charge different rates and im baffled as to how companies can quote for glass over the phone without seeing the damage and job at hand in the first place, not all windows are the same.

I'd agree, the company who would know most about the window type including the measurements is the company who supplied it, which is more than likely who the LL got to fix it.

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

Because the first question I would ask myself is, "what is the point of upgrading one part of a small window?" When it would differ from every other window and door in the place. The second reason is that I have had this happen to a house I own, I rang the supplier, asked them to fix it asap so my tenant would stop phoning me every couple of hours asking when it would be fixed, no way would I want them to upgrade it, what's the point, I told them to just fix the damn thing.

Getting a new window with a better u-value for free is the point.

The LL already tried to get 55 euro more out of the OP, that should cause anyone to question her actions. The quotes the OP got for the replacement window is are 33-75% more expensive than the LL said it cost to replace the window.

The quote could be legit or it could be for an upgraded window. The OP is entitled to know what he is paying for as the LL is only entitled to replace like for like.

davo10 wrote: »

No he isn't, he is required to pay for its repair as he broke what was a window which functioned without any known complaint.

Wrong. Op is fully entitled to ensure the replacement is like for like.

davo10

@runawaybishop,

I would assume the €55 was for the bother of having to get it repaired. And I agree it should not be paid by OP


What is the point of upgrading one small window in a house? Do you think this will improve the BER rating. Putting a whole new triple glaze unit would be a lot more than €195 and would have to me made to match the frame

What are you basing this supposed entitlement to like for like on?, if the window is 10 years old, does it have to be replaced with a 10 year old window?

As others have said, and I know this from my own experience, €195 for supply and fit of a replacement double glazed window unit sounds about right. OP got phone quotes, there is no guarantee that is what the final price would have been.

cerastes

sowajaoxf wrote: »

Interesting that you mentioned this because she owns Garage here in Cork, so I guess she works with solicitors a lot... but invoice was to address of the house that she owns next to me, not to her business and this was paid by cash also...

I send her following message:

Following our conversation last week, I have acknowledge receipt of bill with 195EUR for Glass replacement in your house. I found this price higher than expected so I decided to compare cost of invoice to other competitors around Cork. I have called 2 other Companies in Cork area and first two that I called I have received 2 following quotes for double glazed glass replacement 814mm x 576mm
Mallow Glass - 125EUR - including delivery, fitting and all other necessary tasks
DGCork - 150EUR - including delivery, fitting and all other necessary tasks
As you can see prices are significantly different than the one that you quoted me.
I suggest you to come back to NSG and revise this invoice to more competitive amount.
Until the response, I will not proceed with payment.
Thanks.
___________
I guess my question here would be what can she do by involving solicitor? Problem here isn't that I don't want to pay, but I want to pay fair/market price...

You sound like you're being difficult,as if you were the one that was wronged. They had to take the time to sort this and probably dont have the time to get numerous quotes with a window you damaged, usually means, needs replacing ASAP.
house unsecured, following up promptly so no concerns for tenant re broken glass, dealing with problems promptly.
AND
of course they are going to invoice the rental property address, they paid for it, and its for you to reimburse them, if they didnt and you decide to be a douche and not pay, how do they claim it?
If you wanted to get the best quote, you shouldnt have waited a week to supply it! you should have done it that day or the next.

You said, after a week you got a quote OP, A WEEK! you really expect someone to wait a full week or even to wait on you to at all to get that? before proceeding, this is something that needs fixing ASAP.

sowajaoxf wrote: »

Of course, and I have intention of paying it, but she didn't give me opportunity to discuss this matter, she made it clear in rude way that I have to pay otherwise she take it further.

Problem is not 195EUR - she send me invoice for 195 EUR claiming in text message that I have to pay 250EUR because was windy and dangerous for somebody to come up... but repair company did not put this on the invoice, so as rude as she was to me even if I would pay her 195EUR she will still proceed further with solicitor because I owe here 250EUR...

Just pay up whats on the invoice, you say townhouses in the OP too, is it a managed complex? seen a few places that have signs up, no ball sports, even I think that seems a bit unfair, but its for these reasons those rules exist, smaller spaces and to prevent people annoying residents or damaging other peoples property.

sowajaoxf wrote: »

Thanks for your comment.

Difference here is that when insurance comes to play it is little bit different because it was coming off their insurance not their pocket - only cost for them was lost of no bonus claim which is set without conjunction with price that insurance company will pay, and they have no argument with insurance company.

At least you told them that you are not happy prior to repair...

When it comes to "private" matter like this one I felt that there was no communication done before this matter was proceeded.

Thats a laugh, do you think people want to claim on THEIR insurance because you damaged their property? They only lose their no claim bonus, OH IS THAT ALL??? you dont think this affects their future insurance, when you are asked, have you claimed??? as someone else mentioned, it can be outside the limit of the excess and they still have to foot the bill out of THEIR pocket.

You sound like a decent person owning up, so why make things so difficult for them?? you did the damage. Would you taske the same tack if they damaged your car? no you wouldnt.
Ive heard it before, from people that rob/break into peoples cars, ahhh shure bud they chan claim on der insurawance! like thats a victimless crime and a free service provided to insurance payers??? like hell it is.

Do the decent thing and Pay up whats on the invoice.

ted1

davo10 wrote: »

Have you had to replace a window?, you don't put triple glaze in a double glaze frame, nor PVC in a wood window. You can't upgrade part of a window.

Yes you can, you can get a better glass with better gas which offers a better U value.

ted1

davo10 wrote: »

@runawaybishop,

I would assume the €55 was for the bother of having to get it repaired. And I agree it should not be paid by OP


What is the point of upgrading one small window in a house? Do you think this will improve the BER rating. Putting a whole new triple glaze unit would be a lot more than €195 and would have to me made to match the frame

What are you basing this supposed entitlement to like for like on?, if the window is 10 years old, does it have to be replaced with a 10 year old window?

As others have said, and I know this from my own experience, €195 for supply and fit of a replacement double glazed window unit sounds about right. OP got phone quotes, there is no guarantee that is what the final price would have been.

You seem to think the only upgrade is to a triple? That is incorrect. There's different levels of double glazing

miss no stars

Yeah and chances are the landlord had tenants on the phone about the window and rang a place, asked them to repair the window so that it's the same as the rest and paid for it. Seriously, you think they started specifying u-values?

Anyway, OP hasn't been round in a while...

davo10

ted1 wrote: »

Yes you can, you can get a better glass with better gas which offers a better U value.

Ted, is there a point to the LL requesting that for a single window when all the rest are standard? Don't virtually all new windows have better U values than they used to? I'm sure I've seen many window companies advertising that point.

I've been looking for my own receipt from Munster Joinery, I'm certain it was around the €200 mark for them to make and fit a replacement double glazed window, and that was without asking for improved U values.

LL's don't want to spend extra money unnecessarily on rental houses particularly if they can not be certain, as borne out in this case, that they will be reimbursed. Instead, what is required is a repair to their and the tenant's satisfaction as quickly as possible, do you think U Value is a deciding factor? Dream on.

davo10

ted1 wrote: »

You seem to think the only upgrade is to a triple? That is incorrect. There's different levels of double glazing

All of which might be important when ordering a whole set of new windows in our own house, none of which would be important when replacing a single broken window in a rental house.

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

@runawaybishop,

I would assume the €55 was for the bother of having to get it repaired. And I agree it should not be paid by OP


What is the point of upgrading one small window in a house? Do you think this will improve the BER rating. Putting a whole new triple glaze unit would be a lot more than €195 and would have to me made to match the frame

What are you basing this supposed entitlement to like for like on?, if the window is 10 years old, does it have to be replaced with a 10 year old window?

As others have said, and I know this from my own experience, €195 for supply and fit of a replacement double glazed window unit sounds about right. OP got phone quotes, there is no guarantee that is what the final price would have been.

195 might be grand, LLs behaviour should be raising alarms though. If 195 is a valid quote then ofc OP should pay it.

Yes, there is value in upgrading one window btw. You get an upgraded window for free.

Replacements are to be like for like, or of higher quality if same replacement cannot be made, which wouldn't apply here. If you damage my car door do you think i can get a replaced door made out of gold?

davo10

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, there is value in upgrading one window btw. You get an upgraded window for free.

Replacements are to be like for like, or of higher quality if same replacement cannot be made, which wouldn't apply here. If you damage my car door do you think i can get a replaced door made out of gold?

One upgraded window, I can see how that would be really important in a house.

If you have a Ford and the door is damaged, would you want a door from a different carmaker or would you want a new Ford door?

How do you know this window was an upgrade, did the LL say it was and what is the value to a house of one upgraded window?

Chances are this is not a new house, any new window is probably going to be an improvement in what was there as BER regulations and improvements in technology have improved U values.

runawaybishop

davo10 wrote: »

One upgraded window, I can see how that would be really important in a house.

If you have a Ford and the door is damaged, would you want a door from a different carmaker or would you want a new Ford door?

How do you know this window was an upgrade, did the LL say it was and what is the value to a house of one upgraded window?

Chances are this is not a new house, any new window is probably going to be an improvement in what was there as BER regulations and improvements in technology have improved U values.

I'd take a door made out of gold obviously

I very obviously do not know the window is an upgrade. I had, in pretty simple terms that you seem to struggle with, said that the OP should ensure that the window is like for like given the LL chanced her arm with the 55 euro windy charge and the price differential is quite large.