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Las Malvinas.
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Another mis-typing error, no doubt......
......and no doubt as with all you're 'mis-typing' errors you'll now try to minimise the importance of it and / or blame the reader.........off you go.......
What a very strange thing to say.
I dont think i could have been any clearer or more up front.
Try reading it again.
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" mentions the Puma being hit and crashing " If that's the case, how come we haven't ever seen any pics of the downed Puma splashed across a jingoistic Brit media !!!No it wasn't anything like the Alamo, the Siege of Lenningrad or the Alamo......it was an example of a small unit action and how a well motivated, well led and well trained force can have an effect out of all proportion to its size.
The US Army's 'Center for Army Lessons Learned' has written it up as a case study highlighting it as an excellent example of how a small unit in a light rapid deployment should be handled. So they must obviously think it's up to snuff - incidentally, before you ask they laud the leadership of Mills, there's no mention of who the Argentinian commander is / was......
The Battle Atlas of the Falklands War (published by the International Journal of Naval History) mentions the Puma being hit and crashing (at pages 25 and 26) - they gave Lt Mills the DSC for the action and one his sergeants the DSM. I assume that was for something more than taking a few pot shots at the chopper and the frigate. (Some accounts describe the ARA Guerrico as a corvette, some as a frigate).
Incidentally, buddy, there's a review of "The Battle Atlas of the Falklands War" in "Soldados" (the Argentine Army Journal) - according to them that publication is "....very useful and detailed....." - they place it at the head of their list of English language books on the conflict.
You can read the full review in the April 2000 edition of the journal.......
As for a few infantry men on shore making a ship of up to 3,000 tons ' retreat ' as Corvettes can be armed with medium- and small-caliber guns, surface-to-surface missiles, surface-to-air missiles, and antisubmarine weapons.
Even bigger bullsh*t than the Puma story
"they gave Lt Mills the DSC for the action and one his sergeants the DSM." Thanks buddy, nothing could have made my point better than the whole thing been jingoist British bullsh*t than the Brits handing out medals and awards for their brave heroic failures like at Singapore, the Somme, Charge of the Light brigade etc. You Brits are pathetic buddy, pathetic.0 -
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ChicagoJoe wrote: »" mentions the Puma being hit and crashing " If that's the case, how come we haven't ever seen any pics of the downed Puma splashed across a jingoistic Brit media !!!
Taken in 1989 and posted on Flickr......there are plenty of photos available.....
ChicagoJoe wrote: »As for a few infantry men on shore making a ship of up to 3,000 tons ' retreat ' as Corvettes can be armed with medium- and small-caliber guns, surface-to-surface missiles, surface-to-air missiles, and antisubmarine weapons. Even bigger bullsh*t than the Puma story
Well the whole incident, including the retreating corvette and the sailor killed thereon is outlined in the "Battle Atlas of the Falklands"That morning "Guerrico" and the "Bahia Paraiso" under the command of Captain Trombeta and by now with many of the marines re-embarked from Leith, arrived off Grytviken. The Magistrate was called on to surrender by radio, but he passed authority for the island to Lt Mills, and at mid-day, with the Alouette going ahead to reconnoitre, "Guerrico" laying out in the Bay and the Puma about to land the first twenty troops near King Edward Point, battle commenced. As the troop-carrying Puma made her second trip in from "Bahia Paraiso" she was hit by small arms fire and badly damaged just off the Point with two Marines killed. Barely managing to lift off, she made it to the other side of King Edward Cove before crashing [first Argentine aircraft loss - a1]. The Alouette was also hit, but only lightly damaged and continued to bring in more Marines across from the base. Now "Guerrico" sailed in to support the landings and opened fire on the British positions, but it was her turn to be hit by hundreds of rounds of small arms fire as well as 66mm LAW and 84mm Carl Gustav anti-tank weapons before heading back out into the Bay.
Soldados, the Argentine Army Journal describes the Battle Atlas as "a very useful and detailed guide to the day-by-day development of the war" (see their April 200 edition for the full review.ChicagoJoe wrote: »"they gave Lt Mills the DSC for the action and one his sergeants the DSM." Thanks buddy, nothing could have made my point better than the whole thing been jingoist British bullsh*t than the Brits handing out medals and awards for their brave heroic failures like at Singapore, the Somme, Charge of the Light brigade etc. You Brits are pathetic buddy, pathetic.
Sounds to me like Lt Mills earned his DSC. He took a small, lightly armed force and engaged a superior force, inflicting damage out of all proportion to their size.....sounds like good soldiering to me especially as I don't think he lost any of his men.
The Argentinian Navy, when they captured them, seem to have treated them well, so I assume they thought they'd behaved honourably.....
And we still haven't got around to discussing the Black Buck raids....
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The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »Thats probably better suited to an history forum.
Black buck?
Not at all - the raids are regularly discussed (at length) in air power forums. The use of strategic bombers in a tactical role; the psychological impact; the political -v- the physical impact etc etc etc
And that's even before you get on to discussing the technical elements of how the raids were organised and executed - another little anecdote......... The Americans carried out a study looking at the potential for long distance raiding. The re-fuelling element of their potential plan ran to over 100 pages.
At a meeting at Ascension when confronted with the USAF's analysis, an RAF officer decried the nonsense of the American analysis - took an A4 piece of paper and in a single page showed how it could be done (and how it was done).
All spelled out in this (cracking read, btw).....
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HMS Victoria was the lead ship in her class of two battleships of the Royal Navy. On 22 June 1893, she collided with HMS Camperdown off Tripoli, Lebanon, during manoeuvres and quickly sank, killing 358 crew members, including the commander of the British Mediterranean Fleet, Vice-Admiral Sir George Tryon. One of the survivors was executive officer of the Victoria, John Jellicoe, was later Commander-in-Chief of the British Grand Fleet at the Battle of Jutland.
Uh, Argentinian A4s, somebody?
jawgap, old floon, give it up, like I did. You are trying to knit fog with our Argentinian apologist here.
tac
"Knit fog" - that's a useful summary and a phrase I intend to plagiarise 0 -
HMS Victoria was the lead ship in her class of two battleships of the Royal Navy. On 22 June 1893, she collided with HMS Camperdown off Tripoli, Lebanon, during manoeuvres and quickly sank, killing 358 crew members, including the commander of the British Mediterranean Fleet, Vice-Admiral Sir George Tryon. One of the survivors was executive officer of the Victoria, John Jellicoe, was later Commander-in-Chief of the British Grand Fleet at the Battle of Jutland.
Uh, Argentinian A4s, somebody?
jawgap, old floon, give it up, like I did. You are trying to knit fog with our Argentinian apologist here.
tac
I can see how you could easily misconstrue what I meant.
But I can tell you in all honesty I wasn't implying that the Victoria was sunk by an A4.
Rather it served as an example of ineptitude, to show that not only Argentines are prone to error or incompetence.
Secondly, of what importance would it be.
But if you really must you can replace it with Ardent, Antelope or Sheffield.
- Monocle. 0 -
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The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »I can see how you could easily misconstrue what I meant.
But I can tell you in all honesty I wasn't implying that the Victoria was sunk by an A4.
Rather it served as an example of ineptitude, to show that not only Argentines are prone to error or incompetence.
Secondly, of what importance would it be.
But if you really must you can replace it with Ardent, Antelope or Sheffield.
- Monocle.
Jesus H Christ. Now that's fine spinnery there. Bertie's tax accountant's prize bull couldn't spin finer bullsh*te than that. You've got more turns in you than a snake. Your mention of the HMS Victoria was nothing to do with trying to show incompetence; it was a lazy, mad dash of fervour to try and gloat over Argentinian strikes on British naval & merchant ships during the Falklands War, not a reference to an incident the better part of one hundred years prior.
Honesty? You wouldn't know what was even if Gandhi himself handed it to you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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