Pup with broken shoulder - advice

Lemlin

I'm seeking some advice here because I don't have knowledge of this myself and plenty of people here might. A person who bought a pup from me accidentally crossed the pup's leg on Friday evening outside their house. In the dark and stormy weather, they just tell me they didn't see her running to the side of the car. She is a 5 month old Labrador. They have since brought her to a renowned vet for treating greyhound and horse sports injuries. He has stated that the pup's shoulder is badly broken. It's one of her front legs (I don't know which). He can operate but there's only about a 40% chance of success. Even if he succeeds, he believes there is a good chance the dog will have arthritis. The dog will need the leg amputated if the operation doesn't succeed.

The cost of the operation is €600 which isn't a problem for them. Their problem is that the dog is in pain and they don't know what to do. Is it worth putting the poor pup through all that when its quality of life is going to be so diminished? Has anyone here any experience of shoulder injuries in dogs? I myself have seen dogs recover greatly from broken legs but I've never seen a broken shoulder in a dog. They rang me for some advice but I have honestly never come across this type of injury before.

They have asked a vetinary nurse friend of there's and she has stated that, as hard as it is, the pup will always be in pain and uncomfortable and the right thing to do would be to let her go rather than put her through further pain.

boomerang

I think the vet's advice is what they should go with.

tk123

Get a second opinion would be my advice. I went to UCD (which would be renowned by some people...) with my dog when he was a pup and they basically said the same thing. He has/had deformed hocks - his growth plates had closed too early on one side of each leg so the bones curved out as the other side of bone kept growing.. They told me the surgery would be too costly and too difficult, never let him off the lead again and expect arthritis at any time.. I got a second opinion from the best in Ireland - Shane Guerin in Gilabbey vets and he disagreed and operated to fixed his legs. He had the legs done one at a time and was on crate rest and then restricted exercise so 12 weeks recovery each time. He's 2 and 3 years post op and isn't restricted in any way and more importantly isn't in any pain. If I had to gone with the first crowd's advise I honesty don't think he'd still be with us.
He had xrays last year on my request (he'd pulled a muscle and I'd convinced myself it was something worse) and hips, legs and hocks are fine. I give him glucosamine supplements/treats, keep him lean and he goes to hydro once a week. We started hydro after the first operation and it made a huge difference so have kept it up for fitness.

EDITed to add - they could always send the xrays down to Gilabbey for review?

fiounnalbe

Poor pup. I'm not sure who the vet is they have been too, but I presume he took x rays? I would probably ask for a copy to send to the orthopedic vets in Cork just for a second opinion, it nevers hurts to have a second opinion when you have a serious injury like this. And they are very good down there, specialising in orthopedics.

Other than that it's a decision the owners have to make the 40% chance of saving the leg or amputating it...what the veterinary nurse says about putting him to sleep, I think is just ridiculous. One of my dog has been missing a front leg since he was 16 weeks old. It has not diminished his life one bit, nor has he ever been in pain because of it. He runs in the fields with my other dogs, goes swimming, goes for hikes, jumps around on hay bales, he does absolutely everything normally, I'm pretty sure he doesn't even notice he's one leg short than the others

Lemlin

boomerang wrote: »

I think the vet's advice is what they should go with.

The vet has said the break is bad and he can't give an opinion re letting her go until he actually commences surgery and gets in there.

I've just been speaking to them and I think they are going to go ahead with the surgery to give the pup a fighting chance.

Toulouse

Is the vet an ortho specialist?

I only ask as not that many greyhounds or horses would have broken bones repaired.

If in any doubt I would be asking Gilabbey to take a look.

tk123

Toulouse wrote: »

Is the vet an ortho specialist?

I only ask as not that many greyhounds or horses would have broken bones repaired.

If in any doubt I would be asking Gilabbey to take a look.

+1 I'd be wary of a vet who didn't ask for a second opinion if they thought the pup may have to be pts?

Lemlin

Toulouse wrote: »

Is the vet an ortho specialist?

I only ask as not that many greyhounds or horses would have broken bones repaired.

If in any doubt I would be asking Gilabbey to take a look.

The vet is Brian Jones from www.ancuveterinary.com.

tk123

Yeah he has a clinic beside our hydro. Tbh it's not the kind of place that you'd see many 'pet' dogs - 99% greyhounds and the odd collie. If it was me I'd be going to an ortho specialist like Shane in Gilabbey or Syd in Cara Vets (especially if the accident was caused by me)

Knine

tk123 wrote: »

Yeah he has a clinic beside our hydro. Tbh it's not the kind of place that you'd see many 'pet' dogs - 99% greyhounds and the odd collie. If it was me I'd be going to an ortho specialist like Shane in Gilabbey or Syd in Cara Vets (especially if the accident was caused by me)

I have been into him with pet/show dogs & found him great! He certainly deals with a lot of pet dogs at his Dundalk Clinic. He does not charge crazy Dublin prices either!

tk123

Knine wrote: »

I have been into him with pet/show dogs & found him great! He certainly deals with a lot of pet dogs at his Dundalk Clinic. He does not charge crazy Dublin prices either!

His Dublin prices are meant to be great :pac:

Lemlin

tk123 wrote: »

Yeah he has a clinic beside our hydro. Tbh it's not the kind of place that you'd see many 'pet' dogs - 99% greyhounds and the odd collie. If it was me I'd be going to an ortho specialist like Shane in Gilabbey or Syd in Cara Vets (especially if the accident was caused by me)

I'll pass your comments onto them. They seem to have alot of trust in him though. Apparently one of the couple's father's has parents and swears by him. Says he's the best around.

boomerang

Just bear in mind that if they do take the dog to an ortho specialist for the surgery it may cost them thousands rather than hundreds - yet it may well be a repair that a small animal vet can do regardless.

I would disregard the opinion of vet nurses on this one - IMO the only person qualified to advise the owners is a vet.

Lemlin

Just to come back on this. They have now got 3 or 4 opinions. The shoulder and subsequent nerve damage are very bad. The pup now has no feeling at all in the shoulder.

Therefore its been decided that the best thing for the pup is just to amputate now. As with the posters above, the couple have been assured that the pup will have a very good life with three legs.

They've been advised to watch her weight. As she's a field trial bred Labrador though, this shouldn't really be a problem.

tk123

Ah poor pup but she's so young though I'm sure she'll just adapt and get on with it as others have said. Well done btw Lemlin - it's nice to see a breeder supporting owners like this

Lemlin

tk123 wrote: »

Ah poor pup but she's so young though I'm sure she'll just adapt and get on with it as others have said. Well done btw Lemlin - it's nice to see a breeder supporting owners like this

Thanks tk123. Above you mentioned "glucosamine supplements/treats" for your own dog who has a leg injury. Where do you get these? Are they available from Zooplus? I ask because I know the couple buy their food from there.

Is there anything else they could give as a supplement to the pup to aid recovery etc.? I know their vet will probably advise them but in fairness I've seen vets lecture people for feeding raw meat.

tk123

I give a few kinds - from zooplus I'd recommend Luposan pellets. As well as them I use Flexicose (human and pet Flexicose are the same) and Zuke's Hip Action The Flexicose is expensive but it means I don't have to give any pain medicine at all so worth it for us. used to give one dose a day but read it was better to spread it

Lemlin

tk123 wrote: »

I give a few kinds - from zooplus I'd recommend Luposan pellets. As well as them I use Flexicose (human and pet Flexicose are the same) and Zuke's Hip Action The Flexicose is expensive but it means I don't have to give any pain medicine at all so worth it for us. used to give one dose a day but read it was better to spread it

Would tablets like cod liver oil tablets be any good? I think I remember reading before though that they can also be unhealthy for some dogs.