Constructive Dismissal

Iwantone

Hi,

I work in a highly paid sales role in a small industry. My company are systematically replacing all sales staff with former colleagues of a new sales director.

I also found myself being bullied in an effort to manage me out of the business. I kicked back got heavily involved in delaying the inevitable and challenged everything incl. my manger. I'm still here but expect them to kick me out on the kerb within days. I have exposed them.

In an effort to get away from the stress and do both them and me a favour I applied for a few jobs and was successful with one. They checked out a number of previous references incl. some I did not provide. All was 110% last week.

This week news leaked back to my boss and he purposely made contact with some contacts of old that work at the new employer. Out of the blue the new employer has retracted their offer. I suspect my threats to go legal during the discussions with my old employer have been relayed to them.

Not looking for legal advice or what weapon to use, just getting it out there. What do others think of this scenario?

Mrs OBumble

Unlikely: if they wanted to get rid of you, they wouldn't have said stuff to make it hard for you to get a job elsewhere.

Bepolite

If you feel you're in this position you need to contact an employment solicitor. While part of me tends to agree with Mrs OBumble unfortunately I fear she may be under estimating the level of stupidity that generally goes with being an arsehole.

People seem so reluctant to engage the services of a solicitor. Doing so does not result in you being in court, that typically is the domain of a barrister. A good solicitor will only be involved as you wish them to be, will provide advice on how to proceed and ensure that your rights are protected. They can do this quietly or to the point of putting manners on an employer.

The first thing a solicitor is going to do is advise you not to threaten legal action. Tread softly, carry a big stick.

davo10

OP, how are you being "bullied"/"managed out" and how are you "kicking back"?

If I wanted to get rid of someone, I would give them a great reference to get them out the door, not scupper their chances and prolong the discord.

Bepolite, I think you are giving your profession to much credit with the "putting manners on employers" comment. Most employers are savvy to employee rights due to unions, most now have in house HR or retain an external professional, and most companies who engage in "managing out" employees will have supporting documentation. As long as they follow procedure and have evidence to support their stance, a solicitors letter really isn't a problem, it's almost considered an inevitability, part of the process.

Bepolite

davo10 wrote: »

Bepolite, I think you are giving your profession to much credit with the "putting manners on employers" comment. Most employers are savvy to employee rights due to unions, most now have in house HR or retain an external professional, and most companies who engage in "managing out" employees will have supporting documentation. As long as they follow procedure and have evidence to support their stance, a solicitors letter really isn't a problem, it's almost considered an inevitability, part of the process.

I would disagree. I've seen what a decent solicitor does to the process. Having a solicitor advise ensures the employee is aware of their rights. The don't need to get involved directly with the employer if that's not necessary.

Will it prevent your employment coming to an end if the relationship has broken down? Probably not, what it will ensure is that a decent reference is provided, a fair payment is made and that agents of the business are put on notice that there will be consequences to shenanigans such bad mouthing someone to potential employers.

As for businesses being savvy to employment rights etc. I think you're giving businesses too much credit. The majority of Irish business are SMEs and the vast majority would not have an in depth knowledge of employment rights.

Bandana boy

Iwantone wrote: »

This week news leaked back to my boss and he purposely made contact with some contacts of old that work at the new employer.

How do you know this ?

If true you should see a solicitor.

davo10

Bandana boy wrote: »

How do you know this ?

If true you should see a solicitor.

Only if what he said is untrue. It's called tortious interference and OP would have to prove it.

Iwantone

I know he did some bitching because my friends work there also in mgmt. I'll never have a legal case on this one, my friends will share info but won't be into testifying as a witness. I wouldn't ask them, it's a small place Ireland.

To answer other posters question : Bullied in my case encompasses many things, unfair warnings, accounts being taken off me against company process. Belittled in front of customers and colleagues. Tried to throw me out of the company with a disciplinary process he made up himself before HR got involved.

He knows I'm going anyway whatever happens, I know I'll be out on a technicality at some stage in the next 8 weeks. They'll get me out regardless. It won't take more tan another 8 weeks incl. notice.

daheff

Iwantone wrote: »

Out of the blue the new employer has retracted their offer. I suspect my threats to go legal during the discussions with my old employer have been relayed to them.

did you ask the employer why they retracted their offer?

Bandana boy

Iwantone wrote: »

I know he did some bitching because my friends work there also in mgmt. I'll never have a legal case on this one, my friends will share info but won't be into testifying as a witness. I wouldn't ask them, it's a small place Ireland.

To answer other posters question : Bullied in my case encompasses many things, unfair warnings, accounts being taken off me against company process. Belittled in front of customers and colleagues. Tried to throw me out of the company with a disciplinary process he made up himself before HR got involved.

He knows I'm going anyway whatever happens, I know I'll be out on a technicality at some stage in the next 8 weeks. They'll get me out regardless. It won't take more tan another 8 weeks incl. notice.

So he told another Manager that he rang up your future employer and warned him off?

I suspect you are jumping to a conclusion here.

delthedriver

Speak with an Employment Law Specialist!

blindsider

Bepolite wrote: »

I would disagree. I've seen what a decent solicitor does to the process. Having a solicitor advise ensures the employee is aware of their rights. The don't need to get involved directly with the employer if that's not necessary.

Will it prevent your employment coming to an end if the relationship has broken down? Probably not, what it will ensure is that a decent reference is provided, a fair payment is made and that agents of the business are put on notice that there will be consequences to shenanigans such bad mouthing someone to potential employers.

As for businesses being savvy to employment rights etc. I think you're giving businesses too much credit. The majority of Irish business are SMEs and the vast majority would not have an in depth knowledge of employment rights.

This times 1000!

I'm not going to say much here - it's complex and we don't have all the facts.

However, I will say this:

OP - have you kept notes? Contemporaneous ones? If not, get a pad and pen and start writing - or PC or whatever - but start writing it all down now!

If this goes south, you will need all your notes. Consider asking HR for copies of their notes from the Disciplinary process - it's a bit inflammatory - but you are entitled to see (and keep a copy) of their files on you.

No Pants

blindsider wrote: »

OP - have you kept notes? Contemporaneous ones? If not, get a pad and pen and start writing - or PC or whatever - but start writing it all down now!

If this goes south, you will need all your notes. Consider asking HR for copies of their notes from the Disciplinary process - it's a bit inflammatory - but you are entitled to see (and keep a copy) of their files on you.

This. Start a file now.

drunkmonkey

Fairly simple in a Sales Role, are you hitting your targets YES/NO? If no expect to be managed out. If yes do what you want, you'll have to try and get fired and expect the business to try and keep you no matter what you do.