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Full-time vs Part-time PhD
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Powerhouse wrote: »That's why I said that the main argument for me is impact on family and not funding. That will ultimately be the decisive factor. It is also worth stating that I'm not actually doing anything at the moment. This is purely exploratory. But I'm sure I would not be the first person to successfully juggle all of these. Conversely I know of someone with no such commitments who pulled out of a PhD after a year or so.
I'm not having a go at you and apologise for trying to make you out as a cheapskate. However, I do question how much work you think a PhD requires. Keeping a full time job (as a teacher it looks like) and a family is time consuming. A PhD is not something you do in your "spare time". It is a huge commitment which will require work every day. You will come home from work and have to spend 3-4 hours on your research, your time off will become PhD work. Your holidays will end up going to conferences or meeting your supervisor. It will be a long six years. If you are a teacher, the long summer and midterm breaks will make it much easier of course.
All this will put a big strain on your family relationships aswell as your friends. You will end up having to work at weekends.
What is your motivation for doing it? Is it to get two letters before your name, personal achievement or a career move?0 -
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However, I do question how much work you think a PhD requires.
Much of what you wrote is either old-hat i.e. telling me that juggling a full-time job and having a family is a challenge is telling your Granny how to suck eggs. I have done this while studying for a part-time Primary degree, two Masters' degrees and a Post-Grad diploma in the past ten years. I know that better than most. I had one year in which I wasn't studying since 2003.
More of it is either irrelevant and/or has already been dealt with i.e. my mnotivation for enquiring about a PhD. But if I must expand I have done substantial research on a topic already (50k words which is being published) and am interested in expanding on that research. Doing so in an academic framework would, I think, keep the standard at the sort of level is has achieved already (where the college takes the initiative regarding publication). Obviously I could do it without peer review and at a lot less cost but it would have far less credibility as a finished product. I think it would be remiss of me not to at least enquire even at the risk of being avalanched by 'you can't possibly do it' comments.
However, to answer the main question above - I don't think I commented one way or the other on the level of work involved in a PhD. I came on here to ask the difference between a full-time one and a part-time one, no more no less. The question of the work involved will be judged and assessed in consultation with a supervisor familiar with the area of research rather than one who talks about PhDs in the abstract. The question of whether I am willing to undertake it is quite another matter. For example if, as you imply, it is likely take four hours a night every for six years then it won't happen. I'd do a mountain of alternative projects for a fraction of the cost in those man-hours. A conversation with a potential supervisor would enlighten me I think. At that stage I can take an informed decision. But I am a long long way from that right now.0 -
And you've been provided with plenty of useful advice from people who have either been through the process of obtaining a PhD or are currently in the midst of it. Just because this advice is tangential to the original question that you asked, doesn't mean it should be dismissed with glib responses. Apart from anything else, even if it is not particularly useful to you, it may be to someone else reading this thread who is considering undertaking a part-time PhD.Powerhouse wrote: »I came on here to ask the difference between a full-time one and a part-time one, no more no less.0 -
Just because this advice is tangential to the original question that you asked, doesn't mean it should be dismissed with glib responses.
With respect I have been a father/husband for 15+ years and studying/researching part-time while working full-time for ten years. I think I can be allowed a little latitude when it comes to responding to people who propose to advise me on work-life balance or how my 'family relationships' will pan out. In all fairness I am far more likely to have cogitated on that matter than most given that I have been in those circumstances to a fair extent (for example four nights a week four hours a night doing a part-time Primary degree) already - and have expressly stated that the potential impact on family (which obviously includes consideration of time) was the most significant factor for me. Can I not have some credit for actually saying that?
If the purpose of the thread is to desseminate information and help others then let that be done. If, in doing so, people wish to talk about their own experiencee and proffer advice on that basis then that makes sense, but surely it would help more if people said what their area of research was, what was involved time-wise and commitment-wise, whether they did it full-time or part-time than constantly probing at my motives, speculating about my circumstances, and constantly gainsaying everything that I am presumed to have said (but usually haven't)?0 -
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Powerhouse wrote: »With respect I have been a father/husband for 15+ years and studying/researching part-time while working full-time for ten years. I think I can be allowed a little latitude when it comes to responding to people who propose to advise me on work-life balance or how my 'family relationships' will pan out. In all fairness I am far more likely to have cogitated on that matter than most given that I have been in those circumstances to a fair extent (for example four nights a week four hours a night doing a part-time Primary degree) already - and have expressly stated that the potential impact on family (which obviously includes consideration of time) was the most significant factor for me. Can I not have some credit for actually saying that?
This is all fair enough, not in a position to comment as like the other posters here I do not know your circumstances. However and in all sincerity, you've obviously had a lot of experience of working hard in academia and that's great.
I must say though, from reading some of the other posts, the people here are merely pointing out some potential pitfalls and this isn't any judgement of you, just that they are merely commenting on what is evidenced by the thread and employing their own experience (which does count). Attitude of any kind never serves anyone well no matter how much you believe to be in the right. It's not that they're saying you can or can't or anything, they're just pointing out some areas that might require you to give some consideration. By the way, such critiquing is very popular with supervisors and audience members at conferences, if you do pursue the PhD, expect it to happen.If the purpose of the thread is to desseminate information and help others then let that be done. If, in doing so, people wish to talk about their own experiencee and proffer advice on that basis then that makes sense, but surely it would help more if people said what their area of research was, what was involved time-wise and commitment-wise, whether they did it full-time or part-time than constantly probing at my motives, speculating about my circumstances, and constantly gainsaying everything that I am presumed to have said (but usually haven't)?
Area of research:
I'm a geologist, I specialise in sedimentology, low temperature geochemistry and most importantly geostatistics/mathematical geology.
Time-wise:
Lots of time required. Don't expect to finish early. It's not that you can or can't, your research and approach to research has to mature. Also, there's usually a hell of a lot of things to be learned and digested which make for a better thesis. Time isn't a bad thing, taking your time is fine but don't go to the other extreme and take ten years. My point is that you need to develop a certain competency which only comes with research experience. I'm not saying you are not competent now, on the contrary you're very competent from what I've seen here. What I mean is in terms of the research you intend to pursue, you have to develop alongside it, how you engage it, how you challenge it, how you convey it etc... This is one of those slightly intangible things that you don't read about in a prospectus. In simple terms, what you write in first year of your PhD will be completely polar to what you write in third or fourth and that only comes with experience of the PhD.
Commitment-wise
A commitment that no normal person could ever understand. Commitment, like being able to work 36 hours straight and still not be finished. Commitment, like giving up every weekend for at least two years. Commitment, like giving up hobbies or personal interests. The commitment required is probably one of the most important things. A person can be half-smart (okay-ish) but if they're committed they'll finish. Commitment is the one thing that changes a PhD student the most and it's something that never goes away afterwards. Regardless of how many qualifications or time spent getting them or how ever hard they were to achieve, they are not the PhD. A PhD is a completely different beast to anything and no preceding qualification will prepare you for it. There's no such thing as an easy PhD, they're all hard. Unlike a undergrad or anything else, a PhD gets exponentially harder with time (not linearly). So the commitment increases substantially over time.
By the way, I'm full-time and the PhD has consumed my existence.
Again, don't take criticisms personally even if they appear to be in a personal nature. They're not personal (well I hope not) and academia is all about questioning everything.
I do wish you every success, I hope you do pursue the PhD.0 -
This is all fair enough, not in a position to comment as like the other posters here I do not know your circumstances. However and in all sincerity, you've obviously had a lot of experience of working hard in academia and that's great.
I must say though, from reading some of the other posts, the people here are merely pointing out some potential pitfalls and this isn't any judgement of you, just that they are merely commenting on what is evidenced by the thread and employing their own experience (which does count). Attitude of any kind never serves anyone well no matter how much you believe to be in the right. It's not that they're saying you can or can't or anything, they're just pointing out some areas that might require you to give some consideration. By the way, such critiquing is very popular with supervisors and audience members at conferences, if you do pursue the PhD, expect it to happen.
Area of research:
I'm a geologist, I specialise in sedimentology, low temperature geochemistry and most importantly geostatistics/mathematical geology.
Time-wise:
Lots of time required. Don't expect to finish early. It's not that you can or can't, your research and approach to research has to mature. Also, there's usually a hell of a lot of things to be learned and digested which make for a better thesis. Time isn't a bad thing, taking your time is fine but don't go to the other extreme and take ten years. My point is that you need to develop a certain competency which only comes with research experience. I'm not saying you are not competent now, on the contrary you're very competent from what I've seen here. What I mean is in terms of the research you intend to pursue, you have to develop alongside it, how you engage it, how you challenge it, how you convey it etc... This is one of those slightly intangible things that you don't read about in a prospectus. In simple terms, what you write in first year of your PhD will be completely polar to what you write in third or fourth and that only comes with experience of the PhD.
Commitment-wise
A commitment that no normal person could ever understand. Commitment, like being able to work 36 hours straight and still not be finished. Commitment, like giving up every weekend for at least two years. Commitment, like giving up hobbies or personal interests. The commitment required is probably one of the most important things. A person can be half-smart (okay-ish) but if they're committed they'll finish. Commitment is the one thing that changes a PhD student the most and it's something that never goes away afterwards. Regardless of how many qualifications or time spent getting them or how ever hard they were to achieve, they are not the PhD. A PhD is a completely different beast to anything and no preceding qualification will prepare you for it. There's no such thing as an easy PhD, they're all hard. Unlike a undergrad or anything else, a PhD gets exponentially harder with time (not linearly). So the commitment increases substantially over time.
By the way, I'm full-time and the PhD has consumed my existence.
Again, don't take criticisms personally even if they appear to be in a personal nature. They're not personal (well I hope not) and academia is all about questioning everything.
I do wish you every success, I hope you do pursue the PhD.
Yes, thanks for that. I don't mean to show 'attitude' and apologies if I did - it's just that this is at such an exploratory stage. When I finished my Master's one of the lessons I took from it, funnily enough given this conversation, was that I would not do a PhD given the work involved in the Master's. I am just getting the itch again at the moment especially since my Master's topic is expandable. When I did my original Master's my supervisor suggested doing a PhD stating that I had essentially the first chapter done in my Master's thesis. I did a very successful Master's thesis last year but it still a long way off the knowledge base of a PhD, but if the research done gave me a leg up that would be an important starting point. But I would need to do a lot of general reading to more credible.
But an example of the things I have to consider is that if I were to undertake a PhD now it would likely clash with my daughter's Leaving Cert year and I really would like to be there for her at all times during that year as she's bright but not exactly a self-starter (not unlike myself at her age!). But I might like to talk to a potential supervisor to see if the work I have already done is a significant advantage to me, and what realistically would be involved. That will be a key factor. I'll probably at least have that conversation at some stage later in the year and see what transpires. Thanks for your comments anyway.0 -
With respect, this is an anonymous internet forum – you have absolutely no idea what the circumstances of the various different posters on this thread are and they are under no obligation to reveal personal information if they do not wish to do so. As El Siglo has already said, nobody is stating categorically that, given your circumstances, a PhD is beyond you. What they are saying is embarking on a PhD is just about one of the biggest commitments you can make and there are times when it consumes you completely. Given that you’ve made two massive commitments already (getting married and having kids), you really need to be absolutely sure that this is what you want. Granted, you can always back out if you feel it’s not for you, but that may well incur a significant financial penalty, especially in the absence of funding.Powerhouse wrote: »With respect I have been a father/husband for 15+ years and studying/researching part-time while working full-time for ten years. I think I can be allowed a little latitude when it comes to responding to people who propose to advise me on work-life balance or how my 'family relationships' will pan out. In all fairness I am far more likely to have cogitated on that matter than most given that I have been in those circumstances to a fair extent (for example four nights a week four hours a night doing a part-time Primary degree) already - and have expressly stated that the potential impact on family (which obviously includes consideration of time) was the most significant factor for me.0 -
With respect, this is an anonymous internet forum – you have absolutely no idea what the circumstances of the various different posters on this thread are and they are under no obligation to reveal personal information if they do not wish to do so.
Who said anyone was under an obligation to do anything?
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Could I ask, Powerhouse, in what field are you considering the PhD?0
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Sorry, Powerhouse but I have to comment on your statement in Post 14 "You could hardly be wronger". I would kill (not literally!) a 6th class student for using such poor English!0
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Could I ask, Powerhouse, in what field are you considering the PhD?
Of course - the field is History. I did a Master's thesis on the Irish Revolution in a particular aspect/region and if the PhD were to happen I'd be hoping to use that as a springboard to do a study of a larger aspect/region. By a springboard I mean that I would hope I have already identified the most significant/important sources/archives even if at a relatively superficial level and would at least have credible experience of using them even if, to be honest, much of the use of sources was so glancing as to be negligible certainly in the context of the immersion that would be required for broader research.
That, for what it's worth, would be the grasp for credibility I'd be making if approaching a potential supervisor. I'll probably make a decision one way or the other within the next six months. On balance I'd say I probably won't do it but we'll see. I would definitely like to do more research on the area but I can do that outside of a PhD situation too.0 -
From what I understand, a majority of IoT's & Universities will get a Full Time PhD candidate to part take in what they refer to as 'Personal Development'. This might include e.g. teaching a few classes in a lecturing role and possibly tutoring undergrads in a learning support unit.
As far as I understand, 'Personal Development' activities are not expected of a part time student due to the fact they may have other responsibilities e.g. a full/part time job with irregular hours etc.
There may also be some differences in the number of journal papers required to be published between full/part time PhD candidates.
Full time may be required to have 2-3 journal papers published and a certain number of conferences attended whereas part time may only need to publish 1 journal paper and attend no conferences due to time restrains and other responsibilities.
This is based on my own experience with a graduate studies office and friends having looked into doing a PhD with me0 -
OP, stumbled across this thread and I know that when I was applied for PhD funding last year there were History funding schemes targeted specifically for projects during the decade 1912-1923, because of the centenary of commemorations and all that. My topic discusses mid-twentieth century Ireland so it wasn't available to me but potential supervisors might know of similar schemes in the future, alongside other funding options. Your topic sounds fascinating anyway so best of luck in whatever it is you decide to do, it sounds like you've worked hard.0
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Apologies for dredging up a thread like this, but I was wondering - are there any or many sources for funding a part time PhD? Or do those who wish to pursue a PhD part time have to compete with full timers for funding (if part timers are not precluded from doing so)?0
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LutherBlissett wrote: »Apologies for dredging up a thread like this, but I was wondering - are there any or many sources for funding a part time PhD? Or do those who wish to pursue a PhD part time have to compete with full timers for funding (if part timers are not precluded from doing so)?
I was going to ask the same question, I had been looking at IRC funding but unfortunately part time scholars are excluded.0 -
I was going to ask the same question, I had been looking at IRC funding but unfortunately part time scholars are excluded.
Hi
None of the main funders (Research Council/ SFI ) fund part time PhD's. SUSI funding won't cover it either. Normally part timers would be expected to be in employment in the area they are researching in (ie Fulltime teacher doing part time PhD in Education) and therefore able to fund studies themselves.
For this reason most part time PhD students are in the Arts/Humanities/Social Scienes...very few in Scienced as consumables costs & or bench fees prohibitive.
Hope this helps0 -
Hellywelly wrote: »Hi
None of the main funders (Research Council/ SFI ) fund part time PhD's. SUSI funding won't cover it either. Normally part timers would be expected to be in employment in the area they are researching in (ie Fulltime teacher doing part time PhD in Education) and therefore able to fund studies themselves.
For this reason most part time PhD students are in the Arts/Humanities/Social Scienes...very few in Scienced as consumables costs & or bench fees prohibitive.
Hope this helps
Yes thanks! I will be working in the area of my PhD (humanities) with a very supportive boss, but my contract ends before the PhD does so I was hoping to apply for external funding. Oh well!0
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