Chelsea fans stabbed in Istanbul

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

The_Kew_Tour

Thats not nice to hear.

I have heard few stories about lads travelling to games in Turkey. When Ireland played there in 1999 I heard bad stories.

CSF

Shocking. There has to come a point where Turkey gets the boot from international and continental competition. Whether this is that point I don't know, but I wouldn't feel safe going to see Shelbourne away to Galatasaray (although it'd be a dream even to be in Europe) and I'm not sure I'd be alone in that

IvySlayer

Chelsea fans told not to use public transport and apparently a lot of riot police deployed (more than usual)

Pro. F

Phoenix wrote: »

Reported that two Chelsea fans were attacked and stabbed in an unprovoked attack in the Turkish capital Istanbul by roaming gangs of Galatasarary supporters.
Why isnt UEFA doing more to curb this disgraceful behaviour by certain sects of Turkish fans?after all there was trouble not so long ago involving Galatasaray fans in local fixture
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2568004/Two-Chelsea-fans-stabbed-Istanbul-ahead-Blues-Champions-League-clash-against-Galatasaray.html

Because UEFA don't care enough. Similar problem for fans going to Rome.

smileyj1987

Pro. F wrote: »

Because UEFA don't care enough. Similar problem for fans going to Rome.

Its a disgrace that Uefa aren't doing enough to stamp this out . They need to start coming down heavy on the clubs who's fans behave in this manner .

hullaballoo

This is from their last match (Beşiktaş): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2566523/Galatasaray-fans-fight-Besiktas-rivals-street-Chelsea-visit-Champions-League.html

The last video shows 'fans' invading the pitch and the players have to run away after a red card.

Vinz Mesrine

Punish them by kicking them out of European competition. It should have happened in 2000(i think) when the Leeds fans were murdered.

A 10 year expulsion at the very least and no, I'm not joking.

The_Kew_Tour

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Punish them by kicking them out of European competition. It should have happened in 2000(i think) when the Leeds fans were murdered.

A 10 year expulsion at the very least and no, I'm not joking.

they should have got 10 years for that

Vinz Mesrine

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

they should have got 10 years for that

That's what I meant, sorry.

It's time to stop fannying about with fines and behind closed door matches. The teams need to be expelled from the competition, no questions asked and no appeals entertained.

Chucky the tree

What's to stop some Besiktas fan throwing on a Gala jersey and stabbing people then?

The_Kew_Tour

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What's to stop some Besiktas fan throwing on a Gala jersey and stabbing people then?

A Gala Jersey?

Dozen Wicked Words

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What's to stop some Besiktas fan throwing on a Gala jersey and stabbing people then?

Exclude whole nations then, same as what happened to England in the 80s.

collie0708

I can't imagine what sort of idiot stabs people who support a different football team...

Chucky the tree

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

A Gala Jersey?

Galatasary. Lazyness.

Amirani

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Exclude whole nations then, same as what happened to England in the 80s.

Fans from Kasimpasa then who have no hope of getting into Europe if all Turkish clubs were excluded? There's hardly anything Galatasaray can do about that?

What about Chelsea fans in Galatasaray kits "attacking" other Chelsea fans to get their team a handy bye to the next round?

The_Kew_Tour

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Galatasary. Lazyness.

Seriously though you have a point.

If both sets of fans are involved then both need to be punished imo.

Mushy

All the more reason I want Chelsea to destroy Galatasary tonight. And now I'm off to shower. Despise Galatasary, I'd be banned immediately for saying what I think of some of their fans.

Lawrence1895

Where did I see it? I think, 'The real football factories International', the episode about Turkey. They show, some Leeds supporters wiping their backside with banknotes, that show Ataturk. For the Turks, this is blasphemy, that's how all that trouble started

citytillidie

UEFA cant do anything since nothing happened inside the ground

Vinz Mesrine

citytillidie wrote: »

UEFA cant do anything since nothing happened inside the ground

I'm sure they could do something about the safety licence.

Lawrence1895

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I'm sure they could do something about the safety licence.

I think, they have something like a safety cordon around the ground, remember that from Dortmund, I think, it's like 2 kilometres around the stadium

Pro. F

NiallSparky wrote: »

Fans from Kasimpasa then who have no hope of getting into Europe if all Turkish clubs were excluded? There's hardly anything Galatasaray can do about that?

What about Chelsea fans in Galatasaray kits "attacking" other Chelsea fans to get their team a handy bye to the next round?

The likelihood of fans stabbing their own in order to get a bye is pretty low no?

Pro. F

Lars1916 wrote: »

Where did I see it? I think, 'The real football factories International', the episode about Turkey. They show, some Leeds supporters wiping their backside with banknotes, that show Ataturk. For the Turks, this is blasphemy, that's how all that trouble started

Nobody cares. Killing people because of blasphemy is not acceptable.

Lawrence1895

Pro. F wrote: »

Nobody cares. Killing people because of blasphemy is not acceptable.

Turks are in some way different, and I don't mean that in any offensive way.

I'm from Dortmund, which has a very big Turkish community. When it comes to defend their state founder, they take no prisoners, Ataturk has the same importance, Allah has

LiamoSail

Pro. F wrote: »

Nobody cares. Killing people because of blasphemy is not acceptable.

People do care, those of other cultures who's countries are involved in the competition.

While I agree, that by western standards, killing someone for blasphemy is not acceptable, that's not the case in other cultures. Having worked in the Gulf, another place with vastly different ethics to the west, for a while, its something you have to be very cautious of. A "nobody cares" attitude isn't progressive

The_Kew_Tour

LiamoSail wrote: »

People do care, those of other cultures who's countries are involved in the competition.

While I agree, that by western standards, killing someone for blasphemy is not acceptable, that's not the case in other cultures. Having worked in the Gulf, another place with vastly different ethics to the west, for a while, its something you have to be very cautious of. A "nobody cares" attitude isn't progressive

Ya seen that myself.

You really have be careful in places like Turkey.

You disrespect them in anyway, expect a hostile reaction maybe lot worse.

Just how they roll sadly

Amirani

Pro. F wrote: »

The likelihood of fans stabbing their own in order to get a bye is pretty low no?

So it's only stabbing incidents that get teams banned? That's pretty arbitrary.

citytillidie

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I'm sure they could do something about the safety licence.

Police matter if its in city centre UEFA have and will wash hands of it saying its not their fault

Prisoner6409

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ya seen that myself.

You really have be careful in places like Turkey.

You have to be careful in places like Dublin

Motivator

Lars1916 wrote: »

Where did I see it? I think, 'The real football factories International', the episode about Turkey. They show, some Leeds supporters wiping their backside with banknotes, that show Ataturk. For the Turks, this is blasphemy, that's how all that trouble started

No it wasn't how all the trouble started. The trouble started the day before the game. All of the known trouble makers were flown in the day of the game & bussed into the ground, the majority of Leeds fans actually went home the day of the game due to what happened the previous night. There were thousands of Leeds fans there that week. Trouble was inevitable. My cousin & his mates were at it & were there the night the trouble started - they witnessed people getting slashed & luckily got away unhurt. They ended up on the first flight home the next morning (the day of the game). Nothing started it per se, it was just because Leeds were in town that the Turks decided to go in & get them. Like I said, the majority of trouble makers weren't allowed in to Turkey until the day of the game & 90% of the lads attacked that night weren't trouble makers - they were ordinary joe soaps who just got destroyed by packs of Turks. The 2 poor chaps who were murdered weren't trouble makers they just ended up getting caught up in the **** & it ended tragically.

Back to your point about the bank notes - that was a serious no no & those fans were lucky they were behind armed guard because those Turks would have slaughtered them.

Pro. F

NiallSparky wrote: »

So it's only stabbing incidents that get teams banned? That's pretty arbitrary.

Well you could make it only incidents where bodily harm is caused result in a ban. And then obviously take history and frequency of incidents into account too.

I'm talking about outside the stadium here.

Pro. F

LiamoSail wrote: »

People do care, those of other cultures who's countries are involved in the competition.

While I agree, that by western standards, killing someone for blasphemy is not acceptable, that's not the case in other cultures. Having worked in the Gulf, another place with vastly different ethics to the west, for a while, its something you have to be very cautious of. A "nobody cares" attitude isn't progressive

You think if fans were murdered inside a stadium UEFA would accept blasphemy reprisal as an excuse?

In case I was unclear, when I said nobody cares I meant blasphemy is not an excuse for violence.

Augmerson

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What's to stop some Besiktas fan throwing on a Gala jersey and stabbing people then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3l7fgvrEKM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Just to be clear, the Ataturk thing isn't literally blasphemy, he's not a religious figure. Turkish people don't tolerate a bad word against him however and it's actually illegal to insult him in Turkey.

LiamoSail

Pro. F wrote: »

You think if fans were murdered inside a stadium UEFA would accept blasphemy reprisal as an excuse?

In case I was unclear, when I said nobody cares I meant blasphemy is not an excuse for violence.

Of course they wouldn't, my point wasn't aimed at UEFA, it was aimed at those travelling over. You have to be extremely careful how you behave, and appreciate differing culture.

I had a bit of bother in Libya a good few years back, customs officials found a picture of my girlfriend with her shoulders on show in my cabin (I work at sea). The hassle I had over that was unreal, and by western standard there was nothing wrong with it. The issue is I didn't appreciate their culture, and while the repercussions weren't that severe, it does serve as an example as why, even if your doing nothing wrong, at least what we would consider wrong, you have to be very cautious of offending, particularly in society's that are k own to be extreme

Pepe LeFrits

If there is violence inside the stadium or within the overall club grounds then there are arguments for penalties against the club but otherwise, no. Reading the article in the OP, they were attacked off Taksim Square - if Shamrock Rovers got into European competition, would you be calling for their suspension if a couple of scumbags attacked visiting fans on Grafton Street?

It's a societal and policing problem for the Turkish state, not for Galatasaray or the Turkish FA. They can do **** all about scumabgs being scumbags in a city of 14 million people.

Pro. F

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

If there is violence inside the stadium or within the overall club grounds then there are arguments for penalties against the club but otherwise, no. Reading the article in the OP, they were attacked off Taksim Square - if Shamrock Rovers got into European competition, would you be calling for their suspension if a couple of scumbags attacked visiting fans on Grafton Street?

It's a societal and policing problem for the Turkish state, not for Galatasaray or the Turkish FA. They can do **** all about scumabgs being scumbags in a city of 14 million people.

If international away fans were attacked as regularly in Dublin as they are in Italy or Turkey then yes I'd support a ban for Irish teams. If a country is so dangerous that visiting fans are at a much higher risk of attack than normal then they shouldn't be allowed to host the games.

Btw I'm open to correction on my impression that away fan attacks are more frequent/violent than the norm in those places.

Pro. F

LiamoSail wrote: »

Of course they wouldn't, my point wasn't aimed at UEFA, it was aimed at those travelling over. You have to be extremely careful how you behave, and appreciate differing culture.

I had a bit of bother in Libya a good few years back, customs officials found a picture of my girlfriend with her shoulders on show in my cabin (I work at sea). The hassle I had over that was unreal, and by western standard there was nothing wrong with it. The issue is I didn't appreciate their culture, and while the repercussions weren't that severe, it does serve as an example as why, even if your doing nothing wrong, at least what we would consider wrong, you have to be very cautious of offending, particularly in society's that are k own to be extreme

Yes we all know how dangerous, discriminatory and violent the culture in some countries can be.

I think you are straying from giving warnings for people to be safe into making excuses for violence and discrimination.

Pepe LeFrits

What is barring a country's clubs from hosting games going to achieve?

CSF

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

if Shamrock Rovers got into European competition, would you be calling for their suspension

Yes.

LiamoSail

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes we all know how dangerous, discriminatory and violent the culture in some countries can be.

I think you are straying from giving warnings for people to be safe into making excuses for violence and discrimination.

I'm not doing that at all. My point is simply that these places are what they are. There's very little we can do about that, irrespective of it being wrong. All you can do is work around it

CSF

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

What is barring a country's clubs from hosting games going to achieve?

Stops visiting fans from being stabbed. I'd have thought that was fairly self-explanatory.

Pepe LeFrits

You can always rely on there being a high level of debate on here.

CSF

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

You can always rely on there being a high level of debate on here.

You being one of the highlights of the forum clearly

kksaints

One thing instead of banning a countries clubs that could be done is force the club to play the match in a stadium outside the country sort of like how Dynamo Kiev had to play in Cyprus last week instead of Kiev.

The_Kew_Tour

kksaints wrote: »

One thing instead of banning a countries clubs that could be done is force the club to play the match in a stadium outside the country sort of like how Dynamo Kiev had to play in Cyprus last week instead of Kiev.

Would the fans be still able to travel or would it be just away fans allowed?

kksaints

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Would the fans be still able to travel or would it be just away fans allowed?

You could allow fans from from both teams but it would be easier to prevent known troublesome fans from preventing them from travelling on the days before the match.

The_Kew_Tour

kksaints wrote: »

You could allow fans from from both teams but it would be easier to prevent known troublesome fans from preventing them from travelling on the days before the match.

They could still get through though.

I cant see people from other countries Cities being too pleased either.

Might not be as much trouble or fans, but you will always get way through to these places in Europe.

kksaints

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

They could still get through though.

I cant see people from other countries Cities being too pleased either.

Might not be as much trouble or fans, but you will always get way through to these places in Europe.

Its possible of course but its less likely. It would only be a punishment for teams from cities that seem to have major issues for this such as Istanbul,Naples and Rome.

Pro. F

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

You can always rely on there being a high level of debate on here.

Would stopping visiting fans getting stabbed not be a worthwhile achievement? I don't understand what point you are trying to make.