your world 11?

Skylinehead

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its just as easy to say that it has become the cool thing to praise Ibrahimovic and that his talents are being vastly overrated.

It'd be wrong though. There isn't a player on the planet that scores so many spectacular goals, week in week out.

CSF

Not G.R wrote: »

"Quality of opposition"

Wat.

Suarez hasn't scored against United, Chelsea, Arsenal or City (in the league anyway) this season, instead filling his pockets against Norwich, Fulham, Cardiff & WBA.

Meanwhile Ibra is top scorer in the CL this season...

Nobody (I hope) would argue against him being an outstanding striker... There are just better players to pick from.

The standard in the Premiership is still infinitely better that in Ligue 1 from top to bottom. Ibra has had a great season in the Champions League, I will give you that, not that it pains me too much to do that, considering I think he is ****in fantastic.

eagle eye

Skylinehead wrote: »

Only because he's been injured all season. Fit, he gets into any world XI for me.

But he hasn't been fit so imo you cannot pick him ahead of players that have done it in that time. This is a current world xi I presume?

jimmurt

12gauge dave wrote: »

whats your world 11?


my world 11


neuer


d.alves ramos pique alaba



lahm fabregas


ribery messi bale


ronaldo

Lahm in midfield?

jimmurt

DazMarz wrote: »

GK: Neuer

LB: Alaba
CB: Hummels
CB: Kompany
RB: Azpilicueta

MF: Touré
MF: Vidal
MF: Modric

AM: Hazard
AM: Gotze

AM/FW: Messi

What does Ronaldo have to do to get on your team?

EuropeanSon

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I would say he is marginally better, although better nonetheless. I love how you're implying that Suarez is nowhere near Ibra's level.

I'm implying nothing of the sort. I'm stating that it's impossible not to see that Ibra is better. That doesn't mean Suarez isn't anywhere near his level, but just that there's no argument you could make in favour of Suarez being better.

eagle eye

I've always been a huge fan of Ibra but right now I'd have Suarez ahead of him. Suarez for me is a tireless worker and has a better goal to game ratio. Ibra can be very lazy and do nothing in games but he turns up with those goals more often than not and that makes him very special but I just think Suarez is a better all around player.

CSF

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I'm implying nothing of the sort. I'm stating that it's impossible not to see that Ibra is better. That doesn't mean Suarez isn't anywhere near his level, but just that there's no argument you could make in favour of Suarez being better.

I would have thought a higher domestic (Suarez doesn't play in Europe) goal and assist ratio would be a pretty decent argument. But don't let that stop you from going down the 'I'm right and your stupid for thinking otherwise' route.

eagle eye

jimmurt wrote: »

Lahm in midfield?

I picked Lahm in midfield too, he has been playing there a lot for Bayern this season and has seriously impressed as a DM.

Red Crow

Neuer

Lahm
Thiago Silva
Javi Martinez (excellent as a CB)
Alaba

Busquets
Gotze
Iniesta

Ronaldo
Messi
Suarez

No CB is really at the level of Thiago Silva

EuropeanSon

CSF wrote: »

I would have thought a higher domestic (Suarez doesn't play in Europe) goal and assist ratio would be a pretty decent argument. But don't let that stop you from going down the 'I'm right and your stupid for thinking otherwise' route.

Ibrahimovic has 37 in 36 in all competitions. Suarez has 23 in 26.

Ibrahimovic's goal rate in the Champions League (13 in 15!) is essentially the same as Suarez overall rate.

And Ibrahimovic has years of excellence, in multiple major leagues, to back him up, which Suarez doesn't have. There really is no argument.

So yes. I am right, and it would be stupid if someone thought otherwise.

CSF

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Ibrahimovic has 37 in 36 in all competitions. Suarez has 23 in 26.

Ibrahimovic's goal rate in the Champions League (13 in 15!) is essentially the same as Suarez overall rate.

And Ibrahimovic has years of excellence, in multiple major leagues, to back him up, which Suarez doesn't have. There really is no argument.

Ibrahimovic is 32. You really have to judge him on his most recent year because as good as he is, he has past his peak.

When you compare the 2 players assist/goal ratios against the teams they've played this season. Suarez definitely wins IMO, and that's not even getting into how much more Suarez offers the team in terms of workrate.

titan18

CSF wrote: »

Neuer

Lahm
Alaba
Silva
Kompany

Busquets

Toure
Vidal

Suarez
Ronaldo

Messi

Pretty much that, only I'd take (and probably the only one)

Sirigu over Neuer

Lawrence1895

So many nominations for Neuer?

Right, he is a good goalkeeper, but always keep in mind, how dominant Bayern is in the league. The 10 players in playing in front of him seem to prevent other teams scoring against him...but he does have his blunders, when he plays for the national team alright, I only say 4:4 against Sweden

CSF

Lars1916 wrote: »

So many nominations for Neuer?

Right, he is a good goalkeeper, but always keep in mind, how dominant Bayern is in the league. The 10 players in playing in front of him seem to prevent other teams scoring against him...but he does have his blunders, when he plays for the national team alright, I only say 4:4 against Sweden

Ah no he is a monster. The likes of which has not been seen for some time.

Finical

Neuer

Lahm Kompany Silva Alaba

Scwheinsteiger

Hazard Iniesta Ronaldo

Messi

Ibrahimovic

titan18

CSF wrote: »

Ah no he is a monster. The likes of which has not been seen for some time.

I dunno, he's good, but I wouldn't say he's anything like prime Buffon, Van der Sar, Schmeichel etc. I think Sirigu is better than him atm, and I wouldn't rank him much ahead of De Gea, Courtois or Handanovic.

Sir Gallagher

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Ibrahimovic has 37 in 36 in all competitions. Suarez has 23 in 26.

Ibrahimovic's goal rate in the Champions League (13 in 15!) is essentially the same as Suarez overall rate.

And Ibrahimovic has years of excellence, in multiple major leagues, to back him up, which Suarez doesn't have. There really is no argument.

So yes. I am right, and it would be stupid if someone thought otherwise.

You've let yourself down there friend.

CSF

titan18 wrote: »

I dunno, he's good, but I wouldn't say he's anything like prime Buffon, Van der Sar, Schmeichel etc. I think Sirigu is better than him atm, and I wouldn't rank him much ahead of De Gea, Courtois or Handanovic.

Clearly we differ in our rating of Neuer then. I could follow in the footsteps of many in this thread and do a 'OMGZ IF YOU DONT THINK NEUER IS THE BEST YOU ARE STUPID' but nah I do personally think Neuer is a few notches above the rest at the moment and will eventually be remembered in the same sentences as the legends you mentioned.

Marty McFly

titan18 wrote: »

I dunno, he's good, but I wouldn't say he's anything like prime Buffon, Van der Sar, Schmeichel etc. I think Sirigu is better than him atm, and I wouldn't rank him much ahead of De Gea, Courtois or Handanovic.

Good list but for me you left what could arguably be classed as the best keeper of modern times Oliver Khan was an aboslute beast imo.

shamrock55

Anyone who thinks ibra is a better player than suarez needs to have a serious look at themselves, in fact as a goalscorer right now sturridge is better than ibra

Iused2likebusts

shamrock55 wrote: »

Anyone who thinks ibra is a better player than suarez needs to have a serious look at themselves, in fact as a goalscorer right now sturridge is better than ibra

there is certainly an argument for suarez and zlatan being of similar standard but no way is sturridge anywhere near that level.

Marty McFly

shamrock55 wrote: »

Anyone who thinks ibra is a better player than suarez needs to have a serious look at themselves, in fact as a goalscorer right now sturridge is better than ibra

:pac::pac::pac: I'm going to take a wild guess here and say your an incredibly biased Liverpool fan?

The_Kew_Tour

Anyway enough talk and more teams

MaroonAndGreen

In a 4-3-3 formation, I believe these are the best players in each position. (2nd choice is in brackets)

GK Neuer (Cech)
RB Lahm (Zabaleta)
CB Pique (Ramos)
CB Thiago Silva (Kompany)
LB Alaba (Marcelo)
CDM Busquets (Xabi Alonso)
CM Iniesta (Kroos)
CM Schweinsteiger (Yaya Toure)
RW Messi (Ribery)
LW Ronaldo (Bale)
ST Ibrahimovic (Suarez)

Have I missed any players in that 22?

Iused2likebusts

Neuer
lahm silva kompany alaba

Alonso Busquets

Ronaldo suarez Bale

Messi

Have never seen Vidal play so cant include him. 2 deep lying midfielders with busquets keeping it simple and alonso using his range of passing to utilise the pace out wide. Suarez and Messi alternating positions.

GLaDOS

---

Neuer
Lahm - T. Silva - Kompany - Alaba

---

Busquets

---

Vidal --- Toure
---Messi ---- Ibra ---- Ronaldo

Hulk Hands

---

Neuer

---

---Lahm

---

Thaigo Silva

---

Kompany

---

Alaba--

---

Busquets

---

---

Schweinsteiger

---

Iniesta

---

---

Ribery

---

Ronaldo

---

---

Messi

---

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

Ibrahimovic is 32. You really have to judge him on his most recent year because as good as he is, he has past his peak.

When you compare the 2 players assist/goal ratios against the teams they've played this season. Suarez definitely wins IMO, and that's not even getting into how much more Suarez offers the team in terms of workrate.

How on earth has he been past his peak, how on earth have you jumped to that wild conclusion. Suarez runs about more than Zlatan, only in Ireland & GB does that make a player better. Christ but there is a lot off idiots in the soccer thread these days

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

How on earth has he been past his peak, how on earth have you jumped to that wild conclusion. Suarez runs about more than Zlatan, only in Ireland & GB does that make a player better. Christ but there is a lot off idiots in the soccer thread these days

He is 32. That pretty much means he is past his peak, he is still absolutely quality, but physically he would have been at his best 2/3 years ago.

K-9

astonaidan wrote: »

Suarez runs about more than Zlatan, only in Ireland & GB does that make a player better. Christ but there is a lot off idiots in the soccer thread these days

:eek:

Not G.R

K-9 wrote: »

:eek:

You have a Suarez sig... Let's here your completely objective opinion on this matter.


Edit: Serious lack of love for lewandowski and Costa.

Shanotheslayer

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

In a 4-3-3 formation, I believe these are the best players in each position. (2nd choice is in brackets)

GK Neuer (Cech)
RB Lahm (Zabaleta)
CB Pique (Ramos)
CB Thiago Silva (Kompany)
LB Alaba (Marcelo)
CDM Busquets (Xabi Alonso)
CM Iniesta (Kroos)
CM Schweinsteiger (Yaya Toure)
RW Messi (Ribery)
LW Ronaldo (Bale)
ST Ibrahimovic (Suarez)

Have I missed any players in that 22?

Pique? He's having a shocker of a season. I'd have Kompany ahead of him

shamrock55

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

In a 4-3-3 formation, I believe these are the best players in each position. (2nd choice is in brackets)

GK Neuer (Cech)
RB Lahm (Zabaleta)
CB Pique (Ramos)
CB Thiago Silva (Kompany)
LB Alaba (Marcelo)
CDM Busquets (Xabi Alonso)
CM Iniesta (Kroos)
CM Schweinsteiger (Yaya Toure)
RW Messi (Ribery)
LW Ronaldo (Bale)
ST Ibrahimovic (Suarez)

Have I missed any players in that 22?

now thats a match id like to see, 2 very evenly matched teams there, not sure who would win

Alfred Borden

---

Neuer

---

Lahm

---

Kompany

---

Silva

---

Alaba

---

Vidal

---

Schweinsteiger

---

---

Toure

---

Messi

---

Ibrahimovic

---

Ronaldo

K-9

Not G.R wrote: »

You have a Suarez sig... Let's here your completely objective opinion on this matter.


Edit: Serious lack of love for lewandowski and Costa.

Nah, the poster saying Suarez just runs a lot, and then calling others idiotic! The beauty of it.

I'd have Ibra over Suarez tbh but it isn't as clear cut as some are trying to make out. A 4-2-3-1 might get both in, Suarez's work rate would help him fit in, great work ethic and it's not just running around a lot!

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

He is 32. That pretty much means he is past his peak, he is still absolutely quality, but physically he would have been at his best 2/3 years ago.

Zlatan isnt the sort off player that needs speed, strength isnt something that goes when you are 32 , if you watch him play youd notice that he has been getting better with age. Just because a player is 32 does not mean he is past his best, good thread gone to the dogs recently people seem to not be able to look past the teams they support.

astonaidan

K-9 wrote: »

Nah, the poster saying Suarez just runs a lot, and then calling others idiotic! The beauty of it.

I'd have Ibra over Suarez tbh but it isn't as clear cut as some are trying to make out. A 4-2-3-1 might get both in, Suarez's work rate would help him fit in, great work ethic and it's not just running around a lot!

Ah I wasnt saying Suarez just runs alot, didnt mean it to come across that way, people were using workrate as a yard stick to beat Zlatan. Something that well Ive never heard outside off Irish/British people.
Acutally been a fan off Suarez since Groningen, right now Id have him second best player in the league after Hazard. But no I wouldnt have him at Zlatans level

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

Zlatan isnt the sort off player that needs speed, strength isnt something that goes when you are 32 , if you watch him play youd notice that he has been getting better with age. Just because a player is 32 does not mean he is past his best, good thread gone to the dogs recently people seem to not be able to look past the teams they support.

I don't support Liverpool and prefer Ibrahimovic as a player than Suarez. Speed and stamina are important for all players. I do watch him play, I would say his peak was probably 4 years ago in that season at Barca where he was unstoppable only for Guardiola to change his game to accomodate Messi.

Being 32 pretty much does mean a player is past their peak, unless of course they're a goalkeeper.

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

I don't support Liverpool and prefer Ibrahimovic as a player than Suarez. Speed and stamina are important for all players. I do watch him play, I would say his peak was probably 4 years ago in that season at Barca where he was unstoppable only for Guardiola to change his game to accomodate Messi.

Being 32 pretty much does mean a player is past their peak, unless of course they're a goalkeeper.

You see this is where I disagree mostly with you, speed isnt the most important trait off every player, now a player like Walcott/Agbonlahor would not be half the players they are without speed and you will see a big drop off in there output in there 30's. Players like Zlatan, Xavi and Pirlo certainly keep there peak level a lot longer. As for stamina a player like Gerrard, Rooney will lose there peak earlier as its a big part off there game. But not every player has the same peak age. Its well nonsense to think so

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

You see this is where I disagree mostly with you, speed isnt the most important trait off every player, now a player like Walcott/Agbonlahor would not be half the players they are without speed and you will see a big drop off in there output in there 30's. Players like Zlatan, Xavi and Pirlo certainly keep there peak level a lot longer. As for stamina a player like Gerrard, Rooney will lose there peak earlier as its a big part off there game. But not every player has the same peak age. Its well nonsense to think so

There can be other factors that lead to a player playing better in their 30s, (different manager or the players around them) but their physical peak when they're at the highest of their capabilities is usually uniform enough for players of a particular position/role. When they use those capabilities to the fullest can be age based on a variety of factors, some of them mental, but in terms of a player's ceiling of ability, the age is fairly uniform.

Which brings me back to my original point, that when judging a player of an age that would be typically past that peak age, they need to be judged on their most recent seasons, for Zlatan that holds up very well of course. For Suarez I'd personally say even better.

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

There can be other factors that lead to a player playing better in their 30s, (different manager or the players around them) but their physical peak when they're at the highest of their capabilities is usually uniform enough for players of a particular position/role. When they use those capabilities to the fullest can be age based on a variety of factors, some of them mental, but in terms of a player's ceiling of ability, the age is fairly uniform.

Which brings me back to my original point, that when judging a player of an age that would be typically past that peak age, they need to be judged on their most recent seasons, for Zlatan that holds up very well of course. For Suarez I'd personally say even better.

I think we are just going to keep disagreeing on the peak thing so we will leave it.

For Zlatans last last two seasons he has topped scored in two different leagues on the way to improving his tally from last season in Ligue 1 and is second in the champions league.
For this season there is one goal between them in the league, equal in assists. But Zlatans level off play in the Champions League sees him come off better.

Liam O

shamrock55 wrote: »

now thats a match id like to see, 2 very evenly matched teams there, not sure who would win

I'd probably go for the team with the 2 best players of all time.

Y2KBOS86

Liam O wrote: »

I'd probably go for the team with the 2 best players of all time.

Are they?

It's still debatable whether Ronaldo is better than the brazilian one at his peak.

Messi isn't as good as his predecessor Ronaldinho either imo, stats wise he is maybe.

In terms of pure entertainment and skill, he's no way near him, my father who doesn't even watch soccer would sit down and watch him play.

Neither Messi or Ronaldo have that appeal.

Greatest ever, no.

The_Kew_Tour

A person to dash both Ronaldo and Messi, now thats a first!

MaroonAndGreen

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Are they?

It's still debatable whether Ronaldo is better than the brazilian one at his peak.

Messi isn't as good as his predecessor Ronaldinho either imo, stats wise he is maybe.

In terms of pure entertainment and skill, he's no way near him, my father who doesn't even watch soccer would sit down and watch him play.

Neither Messi or Ronaldo have that appeal.

Greatest ever, no.

Why do they have to appeal to people who dont watch the sport?

Is it not far more important that many people who watch it, and are experts in it think Messi is the greatest ever?

Y2KBOS86

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Why do they have to appeal to people who dont watch the sport?

Who did/do you prefer to watch, Dinho or Messi?

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

I think we are just going to keep disagreeing on the peak thing so we will leave it.

For Zlatans last last two seasons he has topped scored in two different leagues on the way to improving his tally from last season in Ligue 1 and is second in the champions league.
For this season there is one goal between them in the league, equal in assists. But Zlatans level off play in the Champions League sees him come off better.

The figures aren't comparable though, Zlatan plays in a very poor league compared to the big 3, for a team who are good enough to compete with the best of the big 3 and are odds on to win pretty much every game. They're also yet to come up against a big hitter in the Champions League this season. Serie A isn't up there with the big 3 leagues either with the exception of Juventus. The strongest side that Zlatan would have had to face this season would have been Monaco, Leverkusen or Benfica. His stats have been great, Zlatan is absolutely ****ing fantastic but all of that has to be taken into account.

Suarez on the other hand has had to be the driving force in taking a previously weak Premiership side who can't defend, into title contention, all of this in a super competitive league like the Premiership, this seasons probably being one of the most competitive of all.

For Suarez's stats to be pretty identical to Ibra's in spite of all that is a massive feather in his cap and when you add in all the extras he gives the team in terms of movement and workrate it is hard to see a better attacking player than him in the world, outside of the 2 obvious guys who are a distance better than everyone.

MaroonAndGreen

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Who did/do you prefer to watch, Dinho or Messi?

No doubt Ronaldinho was a better entertainer and trickster, but that doesnt mean hes better.

Messi has affected more big football games, and won more big football games for his team, than Ronaldinho did. That counts for more than us being entertained.

Y2KBOS86

Premiership lol.

Zlatan would have wiped the floor with premiership defenders.

Van Persie was top goal scorer last few seasons and Zlatan is way better than him ( coming from an Arsenal fan )

Man is awesome, could you imagine him playing upfront for United or Arsenal he would have buried teams.