your world 11?

CSF

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Premiership lol.

Your post lost all credibility from this point onwards.

12gauge dave

what happened ronaldinho at all when he was at barca he had the world captivated then slump gone?

the brazilian ronaldo was a beast and prob my fav player growing up he struggled terrribly with a disease that effects his weight and so on i often wonder if he didnt have that how good he could of been that must of held him back somewhat?

Y2KBOS86

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

No doubt Ronaldinho was a better entertainer and trickster, but that doesnt mean hes better.

Messi has affected more big football games, and won more big football games for his team, than Ronaldinho did. That counts for more than us being entertained.

Messi goalscoring, Ronaldhino for everything else

Ronaldinho was a pure magic to watch, he has been unmatched individually, man could do anything

We forget that a huge part of soccer entertainment!!!

Fans come to be entertained by the game.

It is the one area I find Messi lacks.

He is the effective football player I have seen but he will never get you off your feet or smiling in amazement at some trick like Dinho or Cristiano Ronaldo for that matter.

Y2KBOS86

CSF wrote: »

Your post lost all credibility from this point onwards.

Of course it did :pac:

Believe

Rayne Wooney

Zlatan is better than Suarez, who is better than Aguero

Those would be the stand out 3 strikers

Have seen barely any of Falcao in the last year, he used to get a lot of mentions when this kind of subject came up. I just hope Chelsea don't sign him.


Is someone actually questioning Messi and Ronaldo, abandon thread

MaroonAndGreen

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Messi goalscoring, Ronaldhino for everything else

Ronaldinho was a pure magic to watch, he has been unmatched individually, man could do anything

We forget that a huge part of soccer entertainment!!!

Fans come to be entertained by the game.

It is the one area I find Messi lacks.

He is the effective football player I have seen but he will never get you off your feet or smiling in amazement at some trick like Dinho or Cristiano Ronaldo for that matter.

I cant agree with that logic, but sure its a game of opinions, thats why its so good.

Goalscoring is a skill, the hardest in the game. Messi is a master of goalscoring, an absolute master of dribbling, has amazing vision, quite regularly assists his team-mates, scores wonderful free-kicks and penalties, hes a leader among his team-mates (Argentina captain), has scored goals in Champions League Finals, goals in Clasicos, massive goals for Argentina against Brazil, and in the Copa America. Hes won many titles in Spain, many cups.

Messi lacks one thing, and its making a major impact at a World Cup. If he delivers at the World Cup: hes most certaintly the greatest ever.

Liam O

As much as I have become disillusioned with my former 2nd team in Barcelona in recent years the idea that watching Messi isn't entertaining is just pure wrong. He is magical. Ronaldo too but in a different way. They both have their bad sides and killer instinct which maybe Ronaldinho(my favourite player of all time for the record) really didn't have and the fame got to his head. I've no problem with that, I'd be similar but the players with the motivation to be the best are just amazing. The fact they do it the way they do in the current climate with the whole world watching every week is simply unprecedented at the very top level. Messi has had the best team of all time helping him but the pressure on him is immense. The fact that Real have stayed in anyway competitive with them is purely down to the Ronaldo factor and that in itself is also amazing. There's a lot to do to convince me that even with multiple years left in their careers that these 2 aren't the best we've ever seen.

Sir Gallagher

Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Adriano... Brazilians just have a tendancy to go mad on the cider and the coddle when they hit their late 20's i reckon. And thats not racism, it's ethnic criticism Bill.

prettyboy81

4-3-3 Formation with Top 3 strikers inter changeable.

Neuer

Lahm Thiago Silva Kompany Jordi Alba

Kroos Busquets Iniesta

Suarez Messi Ronaldo

World XI

Andersonisgod

Messi isn't entertaining is the best one I've heard in a while. The Argentine's goalscoring is phenomenal, his dribbling is heart-stopping, his vision is breathtaking. Does he have the flicks and tricks of Ronaldinho? No, indeed Neymar certainly has more tricks than him too. However Messi's skills are different ones but no less entertaining, the joy is in watching a perfectly crafted footballer. A prodigy who naturally can dance and weave through defences with the ball at his feet, but also who is technically perfect, his skills honed at La Masia the dribbling of Iniesta, the passing of Xavi, all with a burst of pace and a ruthless knack for goalscoring. The joy is in knowing you are watching the greatest player ever, the complete player.

klose

---

neuer
Lahm--silva--kompany--alaba

---

busquets
---schweinsteiger--vidal
Suarez---messi---ronaldo

I think shunting suarez wide to assomadate messi at cf is a more viable option then shunting messi wide to assomadate ibra centrally.

Iused2likebusts

astonaidan wrote: »

I think we are just going to keep disagreeing on the peak thing so we will leave it.

For Zlatans last last two seasons he has topped scored in two different leagues on the way to improving his tally from last season in Ligue 1 and is second in the champions league.
For this season there is one goal between them in the league, equal in assists. But Zlatans level off play in the Champions League sees him come off better.

Zlatan takes pens and suarez doesnt. Zlatan has 8 pens this year I think which skews the figures. Zlatan has obviously had the better career and has proved over a number of years he is world class whereas suarez is only really at that level the past 2 seasons. Based on the past 2 seasons I think they are more or less at the same level.

8-10

As an Ajax fan it's pretty cool that people are debating which of our ex-players would make it into a World XI.

For their time with us, Suarez was better, since leaving us Ibra has gone on to achieve more, having said that he's got a few years on Suarez so it's not a fair comparison, also aren't the same type of player.

In reality I've always wanted to see if their careers at Ajax had overlapped and they played together. But with Messi and Ronaldo around you can't accommodate both in a World XI.

I'd go:

Neuer

Lahm Silva Kompany Alaba

Schweinsteiger Vidal

Ribery Messi Ronaldo

Zlatan

With Suarez unfortunately on the bench. He's my favourite player of all time, but on this season's form he just doesn't get into the team ahead of Zlatan, and it's so so marginal

Unless this World XI is home to Norwich next? Do we have the fixture list?

bucketybuck

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Who did/do you prefer to watch, Dinho or Messi?

I used to love watching Andrei Kanchelskis play, guess he must have been better than Messi too.

GLaDOS

Messi is a bit more efficient compared to the likes of Ronaldinho. He has the skills, of course he does, but he only does what's necessary to stick the ball in the net. Which he does repeatedly.

AgileMyth

bucketybuck wrote: »

I used to love watching Andrei Kanchelskis play, guess he must have been better than Messi too.

By that logic Joey Ndo is the greatest footballer of all time.

Actually by any logic Joey Ndo is the greatest footballer of all time.

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

The figures aren't comparable though, Zlatan plays in a very poor league compared to the big 3, for a team who are good enough to compete with the best of the big 3 and are odds on to win pretty much every game. They're also yet to come up against a big hitter in the Champions League this season. Serie A isn't up there with the big 3 leagues either with the exception of Juventus. The strongest side that Zlatan would have had to face this season would have been Monaco, Leverkusen or Benfica. His stats have been great, Zlatan is absolutely ****ing fantastic but all of that has to be taken into account.

Suarez on the other hand has had to be the driving force in taking a previously weak Premiership side who can't defend, into title contention, all of this in a super competitive league like the Premiership, this seasons probably being one of the most competitive of all.

For Suarez's stats to be pretty identical to Ibra's in spite of all that is a massive feather in his cap and when you add in all the extras he gives the team in terms of movement and workrate it is hard to see a better attacking player than him in the world, outside of the 2 obvious guys who are a distance better than everyone.

I think we are going to go round and round with this argument, the Ligue 1 is crazy underrated just like the Bundesliga was a few years ago, which is now arguably the strongest in europe.
Correct me if Im wrong but has Suarez scored a single goal against top 4 opposition?
Not sure how belittling the champions league is achieving anything, its hardly his fault he hasnt played Barca/Real yet.
Premier League really isnt that super competitive tbh, its been dominated by one team for twenty years and the top four pretty much the same every year. For the workrate/movement Zlatan has his holdup play/ defensive abilities(corners) that Suarez doesnt have.
You say Seria is a poor league bar Juve, well Zlatan then dragged AC to a title and top four in his two seasons there.

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

I think we are going to go round and round with this argument, the Ligue 1 is crazy underrated just like the Bundesliga was a few years ago, which is now arguably the strongest in europe.
Correct me if Im wrong but has Suarez scored a single goal against top 4 opposition?
Not sure how belittling the champions league is achieving anything, its hardly his fault he hasnt played Barca/Real yet.
Premier League really isnt that super competitive tbh, its been dominated by one team for twenty years and the top four pretty much the same every year. For the workrate/movement Zlatan has his holdup play/ defensive abilities(corners) that Suarez doesnt have.
You say Seria is a poor league bar Juve, well Zlatan then dragged AC to a title and top four in his two seasons there.

I watch and have attended plenty of a Ligue 1, it's anything but underrated. Bottom half of the table is around midtable championship level and Marseille, Lille and Lyon unfortunately aren't what they once were.

I'm not belittling the Champions League, but PSG have had a comparably easy run, would you dispute that? The Premiership is a competitive league in that there are typically very few easy games, the level doesn't dip half as low as it would in Germany, Italy and France.

Suarez hasn't scored against City, Chelsea or Arsenal alright, but them being present still has an impact on his stats, making them entirely relevant to the discussion. Zlatan hasn't played teams of that quality this season.

Your mention of Juve and Zlatan seems intentionally obtuse, considering I'm sure you know as well as I do that Juve have only become so good in the last 2 years. Is that because Zlatan has gone from the competitors? Maybe, but I don't think so.

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

I watch and have attended plenty of a Ligue 1, it's anything but underrated. Bottom half of the table is around midtable championship level and Marseille, Lille and Lyon unfortunately aren't what they once were.

I'm not belittling the Champions League, but PSG have had a comparably easy run, would you dispute that? The Premiership is a competitive league in that there are typically very few easy games, the level doesn't dip half as low as it would in Germany, Italy and France.

Suarez hasn't scored against City, Chelsea or Arsenal alright, but them being present still has an impact on his stats, making them entirely relevant to the discussion. Zlatan hasn't played teams of that quality this season.

Your mention of Juve and Zlatan seems intentionally obtuse, considering I'm sure you know as well as I do that Juve have only become so good in the last 2 years. Is that because Zlatan has gone from the competitors? Maybe, but I don't think so.

As a Villa fan I can say the bottom half to the premier league really isnt what it used to be, Id be really worried if Villa had to play a team like Montpellier in a must win fixture.
Lyon maybe Marseille still a strong team.
Germany for me would be a stronger overall league than England, it just doesnt get the coverage, my use off Suarez not scoring against big teams in the same way you used Zlatan not playing against big teams

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

As a Villa fan I can say the bottom half to the premier league really isnt what it used to be, Id be really worried if Villa had to play a team like Montpellier in a must win fixture.
Lyon maybe Marseille still a strong team.
Germany for me would be a stronger overall league than England, it just doesnt get the coverage, my use off Suarez not scoring against big teams in the same way you used Zlatan not playing against big teams

Villa aswell. Reckon Villa would go through Montpellier handy enough, not that Villa and Montpellier have really occupied the same role in their relative leagues over the last few years. Lyon and Marseille are big clubs but they don't have the players anymore.

I go to about 7 or 8 Bundesliga games a year. Best league to go watch games in. But outside of Bayern and Dortmund the quality of team isn't comparable. You couldn't compare Schalke and Leverkusen to Liverpool and Arsenal. Those teams just can't hang on to the players that are world class, or on the fringes of being it. The notion of a Suarez staying at one of those clubs, or an Ozil joining them just isn't on the cards. I find that below that again the quality becomes only further diluted. Man United, Everton and Tottenham or Gladbach, Mainz and Wolfsburg, and so on.... German teams that aren't Bayern really struggle to hang onto the players. Even Dortmund.

Note that I'm not saying Suarez is one of these massive big game players (although I think he is half as ineffective as some people would like to imply), the point I'm making is that Suarez's stats have to be taken into consideration as having had to play that quality of team, whereas Ibrahimovic's games this season have been against a lower quality of team. Which teams the goals were scored against is relevant, but less relevant than most other factors IMO.

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

Villa aswell. Reckon Villa would go through Montpellier handy enough, not that Villa and Montpellier have really occupied the same role in their relative leagues over the last few years. Lyon and Marseille are big clubs but they don't have the players anymore.

I go to about 7 or 8 Bundesliga games a year. Best league to go watch games in. But outside of Bayern and Dortmund the quality of team isn't comparable. You couldn't compare Schalke and Leverkusen to Liverpool and Arsenal. Those teams just can't hang on to the players that are world class, or on the fringes of being it. The notion of a Suarez staying at one of those clubs, or an Ozil joining them just isn't on the cards. I find that below that again the quality becomes only further diluted. Man United, Everton and Tottenham or Gladbach, Mainz and Wolfsburg, and so on.... German teams that aren't Bayern really struggle to hang onto the players. Even Dortmund.

Note that I'm not saying Suarez is one of these massive big game players (although I think he is half as ineffective as some people would like to imply), the point I'm making is that Suarez's stats have to be taken into consideration as having had to play that quality of team, whereas Ibrahimovic's games this season have been against a lower quality of team. Which teams the goals were scored against is relevant, but less relevant than most other factors IMO.

Jesus wouldnt have that confidence in Villa looking at Montpelier team, think it would be tighter, they are near the bottom off the table as are villa, think its a fair comparison. I think were just going to round in circles with this tbh.
Ill finish its not that I dont rate Suarez, I do, I just dont have him in the class off Zlatan