Crufts 2014

ABajaninCork

I really hoped Dan the Man would win. But delighted he got the reserve. I didn't notice how the poodle was handled, so will watch it again tomorrow.

Oh - And I HATED the cut on that poor poodle! :mad: All the dogs will be laughing at him :P

andreac

That's the way poodles are trimmed, it goes way back. The work that goes into that is unreal.
Yeah the docking ban came in in 2007.

DBB

muddypaws wrote: »

I think the grooming was over the top, especially the top knot, but poodles are clipped like that as that was how they were clipped when they worked. The coat was clipped to allow them to move through the water more easily, but parts of it were left long to protect vital organs etc in the cold water.

Heh... Tell that to a Newfoundland :-)
The show clip is a seriously exaggerated version of the working clip, but for my money, an unclipped poodle (or rather, clipped with the body hair all one length) is a beautiful, sporty athlete. The show clip makes a gobsh!te out of a stunning dog.
That's disturbing about the reports of being inappropriately handled :-( It'll be interesting to see if anything comes of it.

anniehoo

DBB wrote: »

She's a 7 year old dog, so was docked prior to the cut-off. Dogs docked before the cut-off date (can't remember when it was... 5? 6 years ago?) can still be shown.

Any of the others though? I didn't think they were....

ABajaninCork

andreac wrote: »

That's the way poodles are trimmed, it goes way back. The work that goes into that is unreal.
Yeah the docking ban came in in 2007.

Yes, I know. But I still don't like it...

Dodd

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Y'know the hair grows back, the poodle show cut is reminiscent of when they were actually working. Personally it does look a bit insane but at least it's not as bad as in the US where ear cropping is still allowed and everything from dobermans to Great Danes are barbarically cropped.

Do you think any working dog was ever had that cut.?

It is just for show.

HeidiHeidi

Just watching the BIS back now.... so haven't read all the comments yet for fear of spoilers. They've just all come out into the ring.

So sorry if I'm repeating anything that was posted earlier.

First reaction is that that cocker spaniel looks deformed - reminds me of ET :eek: I know it's probably partly due to its haircut, but still....

And I always feel sorry for standard poodles - they're great big strong, handsome dogs, with the MOST ridiculous haircuts inflicted on them. How could you take yourself seriously as a dog with a "do" like that?

When you see those two beside the likes of the Rottwelier or the Irish Wolfhound, or even the Samoyed (who's a bit pretty for my liking), I'm sorry, but there's just no comparison.

Anyway, on with the show

baby and crumble

Dodd wrote: »

Do you think any working dog was ever had that cut.?

It is just for show.

https://www.pedigree.com/All-Things-Dog/Article-Library/A-Short-History-of-Poodle-Grooming.aspx

I actually don't think it's unreasonable to think of that as the history, tbh.

regardless of all that, I really didn't like that dog, or the handler. My picks were Colin the Pom and James the Wolfhound. Disappointed neither of them placed, I think James was knackered by I think Colin showed really well.

DBB

anniehoo wrote: »

Any of the others though? I didn't think they were....

Didn't spot any, but I'm assuming they were all younger dogs. The two vizslas were beautiful... One of my favourite breeds :-)

Raised Eyebrow

Is it unusual for the same breeder to have 2 dogs in Best in Show - Poodle and Cocker? How many dogs do top breeders breed from at any one time? I was surprised because clearly in order to have 2 in the final of a show like that he must breed many many dogs. Does this not constitute a puppy farm albeit a well run one??

borderlinemeath

Dodd wrote: »

Do you think any working dog was ever had that cut.?

It is just for show.

I don't particularly like some of the show cuts but I think your emphasis is somewhat misplaced. The haircut is cosmetic, but some of the breeds like the GSD and the Basset have had exaggerated features deliberately bred into the dog. That's a far worse problem than a haircut!

DBB

Raised Eyebrow wrote: »

Is it unusual for the same breeder to have 2 dogs in Best in Show - Poodle and Cocker? How many dogs do top breeders breed from at any one time? I was surprised because clearly in order to have 2 in the final of a show like that he must breed many many dogs. Does this not constitute a puppy farm albeit a well run one??

I know a number of breeders who breed and show two different breeds, and only have a total of 3 or 4 dogs, producing a litter once every blue moon. They'll only tend to keep a pup if it has great potential.

Knine

Raised Eyebrow wrote: »

Is it unusual for the same breeder to have 2 dogs in Best in Show - Poodle and Cocker? How many dogs do top breeders breed from at any one time? I was surprised because clearly in order to have 2 in the final of a show like that he must breed many many dogs. Does this not constitute a puppy farm albeit a well run one??

Very unusual but the breeder is far from a puppy farmer. He breeds top quality Poodles & Americans. I have seen many of his dogs. Top quality Spinoni are also produced from that kennel name that he shares with another very reputable person. He is very far from a puppy farmer & is actually a really nice man.

Dodd

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I don't particularly like some of the show cuts but I think your emphasis is somewhat misplaced. The haircut is cosmetic, but some of the breeds like the GSD and the Basset have had exaggerated features deliberately bred into the dog. That's a far worse problem than a haircut!

I agree with you that a hear cut is not the worst thing and it is all about looks.
If I was buying a dog word of mouth is best,but not crufts or ikc.
The whole idea of winning or joining these things is to get more money for breeding.

Frigga_92

Very disappointed that the wolfhound didn't win. I loved James, Brandon, Dan the Man and Colin.

I didn't like the poodle or the handling. The poodle pulled away from the trot because he was uncomfortable. He did it twice. Not nice to see the way he was handled.
I thought the cut was horribly exaggerated too.

The gundogs today were gorgeous. The display done by that Phillippa woman was great. The dogs were all stunning. Would love to see more labs in that condition and not overweight like so many you see.

Who won the heelwork to music? I missed it, going to try to find it on youtube tomorrow.

Knine

Dodd wrote: »

I agree with you that a hear cut is not the worst thing and it is all about looks.
If I was buying a dog word of mouth is best,but not crufts or ikc.
The whole idea of winning or joining these things is to get more money for breeding.

Nope I do plenty of winning but it is not about money. It is my hobby & my dogs love it. The dogs have to be in tip top condition to win.

Those of us that show & title our dogs spend a lot of money doing so more then we ever get back by breeding. So you are wrong.

borderlinemeath

Dodd wrote: »

I agree with you that a hear cut is not the worst thing and it is all about looks.
If I was buying a dog word of mouth is best,but not crufts or ikc.
The whole idea of winning or joining these things is to get more money for breeding.

But word of mouth from who? Somebody who's a friend of a friend, who knows somebody who breeds, or somebody who knows that the breeder is an ethical and responsible one who health tests before breeding and only breeds for the benefit of the breed rather than making money? You'll find the dogs that are more expensive are because there's far more put into the welfare and care of the bitch and pups.

kylith

Dodd wrote: »

Do you think any working dog was ever had that cut.?

It is just for show.

Here's an old picture of the original poodle cut. Love the little shorts.


I have to say that I too didn't like the way the poodle was handled. I thought he was pulling back away from the in-your-face handler when on the podium, I even said to OH that I thought he looked uncomfortable.

andreac

Dodd wrote: »

I agree with you that a hear cut is not the worst thing and it is all about looks.
If I was buying a dog word of mouth is best,but not crufts or ikc.
The whole idea of winning or joining these things is to get more money for breeding.

Sorry but you are wrong on that one. I show Rotties and own a top winning dog who is both a uk and Irish champion. I wouldn't even begin to think how much it has cost me to get where i am with my dogs. I can count on one hand how many times my dog has been used at stud and he will be 8 this October, so no, it is not all about getting more money, that doesn't come in to it.
It's a hobby, something you enjoy, and the feeling I felt when I achieved the uk title on my dog certainly had nothing to do with money.
So please refrain from posting such info when it couldn't be further from the truth.

Dodd

I think the Rottie has made a big jump forward for the breed in this show,looking nice and cute.
My daughters BF has one and the size can make one afraid but they look cute to me.
I don't like to be around any dog that could over power me

Dodd

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but you are wrong on that one. I show Rotties and own a top winning dog who is both a uk and Irish champion. I wouldn't even begin to think how much it has cost me to get where i am with my dogs. I can count on one hand how many times my dog has been used at stud and he will be 8 this October, so no, it is not all about getting more money, that doesn't come in to it.
It's a hobby, something you enjoy, and the feeling I felt when I achieved the uk title on my dog certainly had nothing to do with money.
So please refrain from posting such info when it couldn't be further from the truth.

So it is about how you feel,what about how the dog feels going to these shows.?

Knine

Dodd wrote: »

So it is about how you feel,what about how the dog feels going to these shows.?

The dogs get mad excited the minute they see the crates & show gear going in the car. I have to actually sneak out like a ninja with the lucky dogs who are getting to go.

When driving to the show & I have to stop at traffic lights or Tolls all the excited heads pop up from snoozing hoping we are there.

Beats sitting in the back garden 24/7 or wandering the streets.

andreac

Dodd wrote: »

So it is about how you feel,what about how the dog feels going to these shows.?

My dogs love showing, i only have to take out my show bag and they get all excited. My dogs are happy healthy dogs that love being in the ring.
I would never show a dog that didn't enjoy it, why would you? It's a hobby to enjoy with your pet and if they don't enjoy it then you certainly aren't going to either.


Can I ask have you ever been at a show?

baby and crumble

I think for the majority of good owners and showers the dogs can be seen to really enjoy it. I mean,look at the 7 up for Best in Show this evening as an example. We saw the 'behind the scenes' but for a few seconds and the Samoyed was loving all the attention and grooming- you could just tell. Colin the little Pom looked delighted with himself trotting around the ring.

You can see in the majority of cases the dogs look happy, they seem to have a great bond with their owner or handler in the ring.

I look it like this. It's hard to make a dog the size of the wolfhound, or with the strength of the Rottie stand quietly, walk, or do all that without them at least wanting to. You would be able to tell if they were just doing it out of fear for their owner.

A similar argument can be made for hamster balls or something. Yes, if you are just shoving a hamster into a ball and leaving him for ages he's going to freak out, and it'll be traumatising. We let our hammie get in by himself after having a sniff, so he knows what's coming. It's at the stage now where when he hears us open the ball by his cage he comes flying out. It's the same with dogs. Obviously they know a day out at a show means fun, treats, walks, all that. You try getting a stubborn little dog to do something they don't want.

Dodd

andreac wrote: »

My dogs love showing, i only have to take out my show bag and they get all excited. My dogs are happy healthy dogs that love being in the ring.
I would never show a dog that didn't enjoy it, why would you? It's a hobby to enjoy with your pet and if they don't enjoy it then you certainly aren't going to either.


Can I ask have you ever been at a show?

Yes I show my dog every day while on a walk and she likes that.
But what I watched tonight is an odd place for a dog to be.

More about the owners than the dogs.

andreac

Dodd wrote: »

Yes I show my dog every day while on a walk and she likes that.
But what I watched tonight is an odd place for a dog to be.

More about the owners than the dogs.

You know I meant a dog show. If you have no direct experience of one then how can you say the dogs don't enjoy it? Mine certainly do and how is it about the owners? It's a dog show.

I really think you should attend a show and comment then but until then you shouldn't be making statements like you have when you have never experienced one.

boomerang

Personally I was glad the Wolfhound didn't win. They are a recent creation, a hodge-podge of breeds combined to resemble the wolfhounds of legend - the breed was long extinct. I would never applaud breeding a dog whose life is so short and troubled by so many hereditary diseases. Look at the Borzoi, who were traditionally bred as wolfhounds. Not as heavily set, and have probably twice the expected lifespan.

Dodd

andreac wrote: »

My dogs love showing, i only have to take out my show bag and they get all excited. My dogs are happy healthy dogs that love being in the ring.
I would never show a dog that didn't enjoy it, why would you? It's a hobby to enjoy with your pet and if they don't enjoy it then you certainly aren't going to either.


Can I ask have you ever been at a show?

I don't post much anywhere but you seem to thing you own this forum.
I check this forum many times a day and you come across like
You want make sure you get the your word in no mater what it is

You go hip score.heart ect x ray

You come across to me as someone that makes money from dogs that have ?

SillyMangoX

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, I was just wondering how much are tickets to go to crufts? Myself and my mam are going to head over for the weekend next year hopefully (her suggestion not mine, I've finally converted her into a show person. She wants to compare cat shows to dog shows :P)

baby and crumble

Dodd wrote: »

I don't post much anywhere but you seem to thing you own this forum.
I check this forum many times a day and you come across like
You want make sure you get the your word in no mater what it is

You go hip score.heart ect x ray

You come across to me as someone that makes money from dogs that have ?

Well, the whole point of boards is to be a discussion forum, yes? SO obviously we all want to get our word in, otherwise this would be a fairly empty website!

TBH you come across as someone who's not going to listen to first hand experience if it's different to the opinion you want to hear.

And as for talking about hip scores and x-rays, to me that sounds like someone who takes the health of her dog seriously. Which is hardly a bad thing.

And anyway, how someone on a forum makes their money is nobody else's business, and it certainly doesn't take away from their knowledge or opinion.