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Landlord holding deposit, have to be out in the morning

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13

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    #62
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Going on what we have been told :) the Landlord issued an incorrect notice. The tenant can agree to a shorter period if they want though. If they do not they can ignore that notice and remain on until the landlord issues the correct 16 week notice.

    The fact that the OP lived in the house for 12 years is not really relevant. All that entitles them too is a longer notice period. It is still the lanlords house and if they wish to sell it then they can.

    However, and this is the important bit imo, the landlord has issued a notice of arrears. The landlord can now issue a 14 notice of arrears and if they arrears are not paid the landlord can evict the tenant.

    The tenant needs to get proof that rent has been paid or come up with the arrears or the LL can evict and keep the deposit (assuming the arrears exceeds the deposit).

    Does the landlord have any proof? Has the landlord mentioned this before? According to the OP the only time something like this was brought up before was when the landlord incorrectly accused the tenant of missing a payment.


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    #63
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    People seemed to have ignored the second post I quoted there. They've stuck with the thought that she forgot to pay the rent means she didn't pay the rent.

    No, we are sticking with the notice the landlord sent that said rent was not paid. That needs to be sorted as a priority.
    OneWayAround wrote: »
    Does the landlord have any proof? Has the landlord mentioned this before? According to the OP the only time something like this was brought up before was when the landlord incorrectly accused the tenant of missing a payment.

    How would i know if the landlord has any proof? djimi has already said several times that both parties will need to provide proof.


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    #64
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    I really don't get these people saying its grand to miss rent payments if your're renting for a long time. I've been renting for three years and haven't missed a payment. Am I entitled to one free month now or something? Is it like a coffee shop loyalty card, pay three years rent get one month free? Some people really have absolutely no conception of how the world works. I'd love to see the situation if they were landlords and had people missing payments.

    The rent was paid. Are you going to edit your post? Or admit you're wrong?


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    #65
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    The rent was paid. Are you going to edit your post? Or admit you're wrong?

    How do you know this, are you the tenant?


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    #66
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    The rent was paid. Are you going to edit your post? Or admit you're wrong?

    you dont know it was nor do I. The tenant says it was the LL says it wasnt.

    Both have the opportunity to prove their claims. Just because the friend of one of the parties says something on here doesnt make it gospel.

    your new on here but trust me unless your willing to look at other peoples perspectives weather you agree with them or not, your not going to find your time on here very plesant tbh.


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    #67
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    A relative of mine had a similar situation where they had to sell with a sitting tenant.

    They gave about 6 months notice and kept the tenant in the loop on how the sale was progressing.

    Also they actually helped her find a new place through contacts and the incoming buyer even shared a van rental to keep moving costs down.

    Treating your tenants like human beings is very important.

    The upside was the tenant actually bent over backwards to facilitate viewings and surveys and all sorts of things because everyone was being totally reasonable!


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    #68
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    No, we are sticking with the notice the landlord sent that said rent was not paid. That needs to be sorted as a priority.



    How would i know if the landlord has any proof? djimi has already said several times that both parties will need to provide proof.

    What notice?

    What if neither have proof? Which is very likely.


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    #69
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    How do you know this, are you the tenant?

    That's what the OP said, I've quoted the OP a few posts above yours if you want to read it.


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    #70
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    What notice?

    What if neither have proof? Which is very likely.

    This notice
    newbie2013 wrote: »
    The landlord sent her a letter written in pen which she just received this morning with all the dates she missed and supposedly missed payments from far as back as 2011 for 12 Euro.

    If the LL has proof of missed payments then the tenant will need to pay or be evicted, although its a very very slow process.


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    #71
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    D3PO wrote: »
    you dont know it was nor do I. The tenant says it was the LL says it wasnt.

    Both have the opportunity to prove their claims. Just because the friend of one of the parties says something on here doesnt make it gospel.

    your new on here but trust me unless your willing to look at other peoples perspectives weather you agree with them or not, your not going to find your time on here very plesant tbh.

    You can say that about anything. How can you believe anything anyone says without getting the other side of the story? Surely we can only go on what we've been told.


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    #72
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    What notice?

    What if neither have proof? Which is very likely.

    If neither have proof then no deductions can be made.

    You seem to be taking this a little personally. We are getting second hand information based on one side of the story. There is no need to be second guessing either way; only the facts matter now.


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    #73
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    newbie2013 wrote: »

    She also has been in receipt of rent allowance and when she had part time work, she's thinking maybe the rent mightnt have been paid then by the welfare
    OneWayAround wrote: »
    You can say that about anything. How can you believe anything anyone says without getting the other side of the story? Surely we can only go on what we've been told.

    To be fair you are also missing the part where they dont know about the welfare paid and what they didnt


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    #74
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    A relative of mine had a similar situation where they had to sell with a sitting tenant.

    They gave about 6 months notice and kept the tenant in the loop on how the sale was progressing.

    Also they actually helped her find a new place through contacts and the incoming buyer even shared a van rental to keep moving costs down.

    Treating your tenants like human beings is very important.

    The upside was the tenant actually bent over backwards to facilitate viewings and surveys and all sorts of things because everyone was being totally reasonable!

    That's the way to treat people. The way the landlord in the OPs friends case is behaving would is the opposite, I can't see how people are assuming they're telling the truth.


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    #75
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    This notice



    If the LL has proof of missed payments then the tenant will need to pay or be evicted, although its a very very slow process.

    That letter was sent way after the phone call telling the tenant to move out. It was sent after the landlord refused to pay the tenants deposit back, the first time the issue of missed payments had been brought up, apart from the time the landlord was incorrect.


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    #76
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    irelandrover wrote: »
    To be fair you are also missing the part where they dont know about the welfare paid and what they didnt

    Rent allowance is picked up by the tenant and given to their landlord along with their contribution to the rent.


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    #77
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    That letter was sent way after the phone call telling the tenant to move out. It was sent after the landlord refused to pay the tenants deposit back, the first time the issue of missed payments had been brought up, apart from the time the landlord was incorrect.

    Irrelevant when it was sent or when it was brought up. Rent is due or it is not due.


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    #78
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    A relative of mine had a similar situation where they had to sell with a sitting tenant.

    They gave about 6 months notice and kept the tenant in the loop on how the sale was progressing.

    Also they actually helped her find a new place through contacts and the incoming buyer even shared a van rental to keep moving costs down.

    Treating your tenants like human beings is very important.

    The upside was the tenant actually bent over backwards to facilitate viewings and surveys and all sorts of things because everyone was being totally reasonable!
    djimi wrote: »
    If neither have proof then no deductions can be made.

    You seem to be taking this a little personally. We are getting second hand information based on one side of the story. There is no need to be second guessing either way; only the facts matter now.

    Why do people think it's fair to treat people like the landlord we're talking about? Why can't we expect landlords to treat their tenants in a similar fashion to what Spacetime posted? The more people tolerate this disgusting behaviour by landlords, the more it will happen.


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    #79
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Irrelevant when it was sent or when it was brought up. Rent is due or it is not due.

    Of course and the OP says rent is not due. Why doubt that?


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    #80
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    What do you mean? Threshold are an independent advice service. There is no requirement to go to them.
    Threshold are not just there to give advice. I have experience of Threshold intervening in disputes such as this and achieving a satisfactory resoution for the tenant.
    If the tenant rings PRTB they will be advised to go online and make a complaint to the dispute resolution service, and they will be put in the queue.
    Thats no good to the tenant right now.
    In actual fact, if the landlord feels the tenant is in arrears, then he needs to write to her setting out how much she is in arrears and giving her two weeks to pay the arrears. If the arrears are not paid, then the landlord must write again giving her two weeks notice.As far as i can see none of these things have happened.
    If the landlord moves to illegally evict the tenant, it is one of the few occasions where the gardai can actually be brought into intervene.
    Contact Threshold immediately for advise and possible assistance.


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    #81
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    Rent allowance is picked up by the tenant and given to their landlord along with their contribution to the rent.

    Which means that if the tenant thought it was paid directly to the landlord then obviously some rent wasn't paid.


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    #82
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    Why do people think it's fair to treat people like the landlord we're talking about? Why can't we expect landlords to treat their tenants in a similar fashion to what Spacetime posted? The more people tolerate this disgusting behaviour by landlords, the more it will happen.

    Where did anyone say that the landlord has been fair in the way that they have acted? :confused:

    The central issue is regarding the arrears, and in this case its either owed or its not; if the landlord can prove their claim then its up to the tenant to show that the money was paid. Its not an emotive issue. Whether or not the landlord is an angel or not is irrelevant; if they are right in saying that rent money is owed then the tenant owes the money.

    The issue of how they handled the sale of the house leaves a lot to be desired, however one phone call does not constitute notice, and based on the information that we have, the tenant decided to find an alternative property, there is no further mention of an attempt being made by the landlord to evict them, illegally or otherwise. You can read between the lines (and Im sure we all have come to the same conclusions about the landlord), but we can only go on what we are told.


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    #83
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    irelandrover wrote: »
    Which means that if the tenant thought it was paid directly to the landlord then obviously some rent wasn't paid.

    If the tenant thought it was paid directly to the landlord then this issue would have been raised ages ago as the landlord wouldn't have received rent payments for months.


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    #84
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    Why do people think it's fair to treat people like the landlord we're talking about? Why can't we expect landlords to treat their tenants in a similar fashion to what Spacetime posted? The more people tolerate this disgusting behaviour by landlords, the more it will happen.

    Noone has said it is fair, every person on here has been seeking a plain and simple explanation of the facts. There is doubt that either side has acted angelically in this entire tenancy.
    The majority of posters here are very much of the opinion that you must adhere to the law regardless of whether you are a tenant or a landlord.

    You are taking this way too personal when everyone on here is giving good solid advice and opinions, the same solid advice and opinion they gave on the thread that was started by the OP in December about improper notice being given then.

    I've a good mind to lock this thread until the OP can come back to give definitive answers on some of the points raised;
    namely does the tenant have proof that all rent is up to date? (whether paid on time or late)
    does the landlord have proof that there are arrears in rent?
    if the landlord gave proper notice to vacate;
    if the tenant agreed a shorter notice period in order to take on the new house;


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    #85
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    Of course and the OP says rent is not due. Why doubt that?

    What does it matter what we think either way?


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    #86
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    Of course and the OP says rent is not due. Why doubt that?

    The tenant needs to show that the rent was paid. Its not about doubt, its about responding to a notice of arrears properly.
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Threshold are not just there to give advice. I have experience of Threshold intervening in disputes such as this and achieving a satisfactory resoution for the tenant.
    If the tenant rings PRTB they will be advised to go online and make a complaint to the dispute resolution service, and they will be put in the queue.
    Thats no good to the tenant right now.
    In actual fact, if the landlord feels the tenant is in arrears, then he needs to write to her setting out how much she is in arrears and giving her two weeks to pay the arrears. If the arrears are not paid, then the landlord must write again giving her two weeks notice.As far as i can see none of these things have happened.
    If the landlord moves to illegally evict the tenant, it is one of the few occasions where the gardai can actually be brought into intervene.
    Contact Threshold immediately for advise and possible assistance.

    Threshold have no legal status though, you do not have to engage with them at all.


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    #87
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    djimi wrote: »
    Where did anyone say that the landlord has been fair in the way that they have acted? :confused:

    All people are talking about is proof that the tenant has paid rent, not the disgusting treatment of her and her kids.
    djimi wrote: »
    The central issue is regarding the arrears, and in this case its either owed or its not; if the landlord can prove their claim then its up to the tenant to show that the money was paid. Its not an emotive issue. Whether or not the landlord is an angel or not is irrelevant; if they are right in saying that rent money is owed then the tenant owes the money.

    The issue of how they handled the sale of the house leaves a lot to be desired, however one phone call does not constitute notice, and based on the information that we have, the tenant decided to find an alternative property, there is no further mention of an attempt being made by the landlord to evict them, illegally or otherwise. You can read between the lines (and Im sure we all have come to the same conclusions about the landlord), but we can only go on what we are told.

    The tenant wouldn't have even started looking for alternative accomadation if they weren't told they had to move.


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    #88
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    djimi wrote: »
    What does it matter what we think either way?

    The advice been given to the OPs friend and the tone of it is wrong. The OP should do what they can to prove they've paid but should decline to move until the deposit is paid to them unless the landlord can come up with proof of non payment of rent.


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    #89
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    All people are talking about is proof that the tenant has paid rent, not the disgusting treatment of her and her kids.

    The tenant wouldn't have even started looking for alternative accomadation if they weren't told they had to move.

    Asking someone to leave a house that is being sold isn't disgusting. What is it is insufficient notice. Advising the tenant to ensure they have proof of payment would allow them to remain in the house longer and retrieve their deposit.


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    #90
    OneWayAround
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭OneWayAround


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    The tenant needs to show that the rent was paid. Its not about doubt, its about responding to a notice of arrears properly.

    The landlord needs to prove it you mean?


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    #91
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    OneWayAround wrote: »
    The advice been given to the OPs friend and the tone of it is wrong. The OP should do what they can to prove they've paid but should decline to move until the deposit is paid to them unless the landlord can come up with proof of non payment of rent.

    That option may mean that the OP is possibly paying rent on two properties - they can't just stay in the existing property and not pay rent.


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