Pushed out of the market

moxin

The_Conductor wrote: »

Plenty of what would be considered rougher areas of Dublin 15/Clonee/Lucan/Clondalking/Tallaght- have shot up in price.

Clonee/Lucan are rough?!! That is news!

Jaybor

moxin wrote: »

Clonee/Lucan are rough?!! That is news!

Would you say they are posh? Since you say only posh areas have risen.

And a lot more than just those areas have shot up too.

moxin

Jaybor wrote: »

Would you say they are posh? Since you say only posh areas have risen.

And a lot more than just those areas have shot up too.

No they are not posh. You have misunderstood, i'd call them average areas, they are desirable as the posh areas for families to settle in.

delthedriver

It is a very difficult one for young couples and young families.


They either decide to buy in areas they can afford or follow the European model and rent in areas they can afford.


The obsession with owning property has not changed, hence this is driving the market once again.


It is not unusual for people in other European Capitals to rent on a long term basis, 10, 15 , 20 years perhaps longer.


Why should Dublin be different?


Buy or rent what you can afford , get on with your life and be happy!


Situations change with time. If things don't change they stay the same.!

MouseTail

moxin wrote: »

No they are not posh. You have misunderstood, i'd call them average areas, they are desirable as the posh areas for families to settle in.

OK, so now you are saying average areas have seen rises too. So where do you assert the price drops are?

hfallada

If Irish people realised that not everyone can have a house we wouldnt have such a housing issue. Irish people wouldnt consider living in an apartment. There is this need to have a 3 bed with a garden no matter how small it is. People are willing to spend hours everyday, driving from the middle of no where so they can have a garden

Jaybor

People talk about the Irish obsession with owning property.

I think what they would like is to have their own obsession with it, but for nobody else to have an obsession with it so drive prices down for them to pander to their own lust to own a property.

moxin

MouseTail wrote: »

OK, so now you are saying average areas have seen rises too. So where do you assert the price drops are?

Where did I say that?

riclad

IF you want to live in a certain area, look at buying an apartment,
Some area,s have a small amount of houses for sale.
Which tends to push up prices, and encourage bidding wars.

MouseTail

moxin wrote: »

Where did I say that?

Apologies if I misunderstood you. Are you saying then that only 'posh' areas are seeing rises. If we assume posh = affluent, then anywhere not blue on the map below is stagnant or dropping?

http://trutzhaase.eu/wp/wp-content/uploads/All-Island-Deprivation-Index-01.jpg

moxin

MouseTail wrote: »

Apologies if I misunderstood you. Are you saying then that only 'posh' areas are seeing rises. If we assume posh = affluent, then anywhere not blue on the map below is stagnant or dropping?

http://trutzhaase.eu/wp/wp-content/uploads/All-Island-Deprivation-Index-01.jpg

Small map. It appears that most of Dublin is not blue there. The blue part appears to be SCD which has been made famous here for price rises.

Jaybor

moxin wrote: »

Small map. It appears that most of Dublin is not blue there. The blue part appears to be SCD which has been made famous here for price rises.

Im confused here.
Are you saying only SCD has seen price rises?
Or only the posh parts of Dublin are having price rises?

Would you agree that there is significantly more of Dublin experiencing price rises than not then?

HeidiHeidi

delthedriver wrote: »

It is a very difficult one for young couples and young families.


They either decide to buy in areas they can afford or follow the European model and rent in areas they can afford.


The obsession with owning property has not changed, hence this is driving the market once again.


It is not unusual for people in other European Capitals to rent on a long term basis, 10, 15 , 20 years perhaps longer.


Why should Dublin be different?


Buy or rent what you can afford , get on with your life and be happy!


Situations change with time. If things don't change they stay the same.!

Because the conditions for renters are not the same as in continental Europe. Security of tenure for starters, and most apartments here are not designed for long-term living of any sort, never mind family living. And I don't think there's anything like the stock of suitable family homes available to rent if half the country suddenly decided that buying was a fool's game.

Until there's a wholesale change in those factors, plus others, buying will remain the only viable option here.

delthedriver

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Because the conditions for renters are not the same as in continental Europe. Security of tenure for starters, and most apartments here are not designed for long-term living of any sort, never mind family living. And I don't think there's anything like the stock of suitable family homes available to rent if half the country suddenly decided that buying was a fool's game.

Until there's a wholesale change in those factors, plus others, buying will remain the only viable option here.

Fair comments indeed.


Is the situation for renters something that the Government can address, ie security of tenure ?


When the PRTB was formed, was tenure not addressed?


We have an ageing population, perhaps with time older people may wish to trade down to or rent apartments in their own areas, therefore freeing up properties for sale or indeed rent ?

HeidiHeidi

delthedriver wrote: »

Fair comments indeed.


Is the situation for renters something that the Government can address, ie security of tenure ?


When the PRTB was formed, was tenure not addressed?


We have an ageing population, perhaps with time older people may wish to trade down to or rent apartments in their own areas, therefore freeing up properties for sale or indeed rent ?

Your last paragraph depends on people having bought the properties in the first place that they now wish to trade down from

I'm no expert in the area, but I have lived in Germany (a long time ago) and I never came across private landlords of the kind we have here. The apartments I and others lived in were owned by pension funds (or some such, not private individuals), once you were in you were in, they came unfurnished (without a kitchen in the case of the one I sublet :eek: the primary renter had had to have one fitted and would either take it with him if/when he moved, or sell it to the new tenants in a private arrangement), all had basement storage areas, and were of a decent size and layout that made them suitable for long-term family life. The whole mindset, not to mind the stock of apartments (the main problem) is just not set up here for lifelong renting.

That's my tuppenceworth anyway - the compulsion to buy is well ingrained in us here, for very good reason, and a lot would have to change to alter that mindset.

delthedriver

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Your last paragraph depends on people having bought the properties in the first place that they now wish to trade down from

I'm no expert in the area, but I have lived in Germany (a long time ago) and I never came across private landlords of the kind we have here. The apartments I and others lived in were owned by pension funds (or some such, not private individuals), once you were in you were in, they came unfurnished (without a kitchen in the case of the one I sublet :eek: the primary renter had had to have one fitted and would either take it with him if/when he moved, or sell it to the new tenants in a private arrangement), all had basement storage areas, and were of a decent size and layout that made them suitable for long-term family life. The whole mindset, not to mind the stock of apartments (the main problem) is just not set up here for lifelong renting.

That's my tuppenceworth anyway - the compulsion to buy is well ingrained in us here, for very good reason, and a lot would have to change to alter that mindset.

The type of landlord may be changing, there are a number large investors, Fund Managers, investing in property at present, I guess along the lines of your pension funds in Germany.


This may also be driving prices and rents higher.


As regards the private landlords you have come across here, I cannot comment , other than however many bad landlords there are I am sure there is an equal amount of bad tenants.


As for the older generation who own houses in good or desirable areas, I say good lock to them. Should they decide to trade down , I hope they achieve the very best price possible.

delthedriver

There is no real solution to this property issue in Dublin.


It is simple economics at work, Supply V Demand determines the price.


A lot of people sat on their hands over the last few years hoping for the market to fall further. Now they have missed the boat, the tide turned very quickly.


Of course they may feel excluded from buying in Dublin, perhaps it is time to face facts, they can only buy or rent in areas they can afford.


Already commuter towns in surrounding Counties are seeing healthy movement in property sales.


It is not the fault of the Silver Haired Brigade who are living in valuable houses in the more desirable areas.


Perhaps it is time to wake up and smell the coffee ?????

spockety

A lot of facing facts and coffee smelling required, sounds like a perfectly functioning market..

riclad

PRICES levelled out ,i haven,t seen price drops in dublin for 2 years.
House prices still alot cheaper than boom time prices .
Theres still a wide range of prices in dublin .
IF you look around different area,s .
Some area,s small amount of houses on the market=rising price,
thats how market forces work.
its not a perfect market,
IN that most builders are bankrupt,
not enough houses are being built in dublin,
under new rules , self build houses are illegal.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/crisis-as-number-of-homes-for-sale-plummets-50pc-new-data-30070895.html

IN a normal market builders will start building houses to meet demand.

Potatoeman

delthedriver wrote: »

There is no real solution to this property issue in Dublin.


It is simple economics at work, Supply V Demand determines the price.


A lot of people sat on their hands over the last few years hoping for the market to fall further. Now they have missed the boat, the tide turned very quickly.


Of course they may feel excluded from buying in Dublin, perhaps it is time to face facts, they can only buy or rent in areas they can afford.


Already commuter towns in surrounding Counties are seeing healthy movement in property sales.


It is not the fault of the Silver Haired Brigade who are living in valuable houses in the more desirable areas.


Perhaps it is time to wake up and smell the coffee ?????

We dont have a functional market with NAMA and very few repossesions. The government plan is to fight price drops and protect the pyramid scheme that has been created which is effectivley making people entering the market overpay because the people before them did.

Heisenberg1

Potatoeman wrote: »

We dont have a functional market with NAMA and very few repossesions. The government plan is to fight price drops and protect the pyramid scheme that has been created which is effectivley making people entering the market overpay because the people before them did.

But how many houses do you think are going to be repossessed in the desirable areas?? IMO very very little but it will be a lot higher in the commuter areas.

BookBook

riclad wrote: »

PRICES levelled out ,i haven,t seen price drops in dublin for 2 years.
....

Lots of recent asking price reductions (and increases) can be found here
http://www.myhome.ie/pricechanges?RegionID=1265&LocalityIDs=

Zamboni

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

But how many houses do you think are going to be repossessed in the desirable areas?? IMO very very little but it will be a lot higher in the commuter areas.

What makes you think that?

Ray Palmer

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

But how many houses do you think are going to be repossessed in the desirable areas?? IMO very very little but it will be a lot higher in the commuter areas.

This is the bit most people miss. High demand areas are high demand due to proximity to employment. Negative equity will disappear in these areas first and the people living there are likely to be able to get employment. Even if that is a reduced wage it would allow them to retain their home.

I hate when people go on about Germany as the ideal model too. It require absence of knowing how and why Germany has those rules and has large organisations owning property. If you want the same here destroy the country the way Germany was destroyed in WWII.

We have high demand to own our property due to our history and most people in this country their parents owned their home when they grew up. It will take at least a generation to change this trend. I believe it is inevitable homeownership was going to reduce in this country. Legislation changes will lag behind this. Germany never had a choice and has 2 generations to legislate and tease these things out.

Potatoeman

Ray Palmer wrote: »

This is the bit most people miss. High demand areas are high demand due to proximity to employment. Negative equity will disappear in these areas first and the people living there are likely to be able to get employment. Even if that is a reduced wage it would allow them to retain their home.

I hate when people go on about Germany as the ideal model too. It require absence of knowing how and why Germany has those rules and has large organisations owning property. If you want the same here destroy the country the way Germany was destroyed in WWII.

We have high demand to own our property due to our history and most people in this country their parents owned their home when they grew up. It will take at least a generation to change this trend. I believe it is inevitable homeownership was going to reduce in this country. Legislation changes will lag behind this. Germany never had a choice and has 2 generations to legislate and tease these things out.

For many people its far more simple. Its the stability ownership provides. Renting on one year leases is uncertain and in many cases just as expensive as buying.
Over your mortgage term your repayments reduce as capital is payed off whereas rent generally only increases.

Ray Palmer

Potatoeman wrote: »

For many people its far more simple. Its the stability ownership provides. Renting on one year leases is uncertain and in many cases just as expensive as buying.
Over your mortgage term your repayments reduce as capital is payed off whereas rent generally only increases.

You do understand after 6 months you have much more rights and can only be asked to leave under set circumstances?

The point really was if there was better protection people wouldn't need to buy and you could rent with the security such as they do in Germany.

I know how a mortgage

gaius c

Ray Palmer wrote: »

This is the bit most people miss. High demand areas are high demand due to proximity to employment. Negative equity will disappear in these areas first and the people living there are likely to be able to get employment. Even if that is a reduced wage it would allow them to retain their home.

Really?
You do realise that you need 200% increases to cancel out 50% drops?

delthedriver

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

But how many houses do you think are going to be repossessed in the desirable areas?? IMO very very little but it will be a lot higher in the commuter areas.

Why? Perhaps you could elaborate please? Thanks

Marchbride

Wow this thread took off full steam ahead after my original post. Just bringing it back to that same post. There is non doubt in my mind that I and a lot of others are being priced out of market. I have 285k to spend and I am looking in Dub 5,9,11,13 & swords.. But nothing.. Those houses priced at 250-260 are going for 30k over asking. It's incredible and depressing. I approached a woman close by to where I rent on Friday to ask if I could buy her home. She was lovely about me asking and said that there was a private viewing Saturday that she 'd leave go. If no higher offer than asking price which is what we offered then we could have it. Turns out someone offered a FIRST bid 15k over asking! If it 5k or less she was giving us the house as it would avoid EA fees as she didn't sign any papers for him. Want to hang up the house hunting hat at this rate but there's many variables against us ie husbands age, my return to work shortly resulting in child care costs that I don't think the banks will renew approval. If they did, probably not for same figure!

who_ru

if people are stupid enough to offer 15k above asking for a first bid let them at it. that is total desperation at work there.