Suarez, Aguero or RVP

Soups123

hefferboi wrote: »

Suarez this season against the top teams:

Arsenal away - Nothing of note.

Everton away - 1 goal, 1 assist.

City away - Fantastic game from him. Got an assist for Coutinho's goal, should have had 3 more assists only for shocking finishing from Sterling x2 and Coutinho in 1v1 situations.

Chelsea away - Assist and should of had a penalty.

Spurs away - 2 goals, 3 assists.

Everton home - 1 goal, 1 assist.

Arsenal home - 1 Assist.


I can go back the last 2 season's if ye're still not happy?

Not that I agree with the point about big games , but tbh the games people are talking about would be city, Chelsea United and Arsenal

hefferboi

Soups123 wrote: »

Not that I agree with the point about big games , but tbh the games people are talking about would be city, Chelsea United and Arsenal

Why United?

Soups123

hefferboi wrote: »

Why United?

If your going to try make your point above valid above don't dilute it by posting BS, you know why United

Take Your Pants Off

hefferboi wrote: »

Why United?

Look at the table.
While you are it their form aswell

hefferboi

Soups123 wrote: »

If your going to try make your point above valid above don't dilute it by posting BS, you know why United

You said you're comparing him against Chelsea, City and Arsenal. The 3 teams ahead of us which is fair enough, but then say United who are in 6th. Why is ok to compare him to United and not the teams around United, i.e Everton and Spurs?

I've not diluted anything. Those are the games he's played this season against the top 7. He didn't play United yet this year.

brevity

I've always thought this "doesn't do it in big games" is a bit of a strange statement. Imo what you really need players like Suarez and Ronaldo for is the smaller less profile games. The other 10 players generally raise their game for the big games anyways.

hefferboi

Take Your Pants Off wrote: »

Look at the table.
While you are it their form aswell

Exactly?

Soups123

hefferboi wrote: »

You said you're comparing him against Chelsea, City and Arsenal. The 3 teams ahead of us which is fair enough, but then say United who are in 6th. Why is ok to compare him to United and not the teams around United, i.e Everton and Spurs?

I've not diluted anything. Those are the games he's played this season against the top 7. He didn't play United yet this year.

Look at the table last year and the year before calling United not one of the bigs clubs is petty.

And as I said from the start I don't agree with the doesn't do it in big games point

Soups123

Soups123 wrote: »

Not that I agree with the point about big games , but tbh the games people are talking about would be city, Chelsea United and Arsenal

He scored v City, Chelsea and Arsenal last season too. Scored v Utd the season before too iirc.

He scored v all the big teams actually and probably most of the small ones.

Hard to argue with facts.

Soft Falling Rain

hefferboi wrote: »

For the lads saying Suarez doesn't do it in the big games? Can ye back that up or is it just an "opinion"?

Nothing so far it seems.

hefferboi

Soups123 wrote: »

Look at the table last year and the year before calling United not one of the bigs clubs is petty.

And as I said from the start I don't agree with the doesn't do it in big games point

No need to put words in my mouth, I never said United weren't a big team. I posted stats for this season. I'll happily post the last 2 seasons as well.

Soups123

rarnes1 wrote: »

He scored v City, Chelsea and Arsenal last season too. Scored v Utd the season before too iirc.

He scored v all the big teams actually and probably most of the small ones.

Hard to argue with facts.

I didn't argue the fact ? I agreed with it just mention the clubs people were talking about if he was going to stat it

shamrock55

Suarez for me, no question

Bounty Hunter

Poll changed upon request of the OP

He thought the Heskey option was a mistake on his behalf, RVP now fills the third spot, but of course remember people these things are subjective, Man utd fans will tend to go for RVP / Pool fans for Suarez and neutrals perhaps for Aguero (he is perhaps more likeable for non Pool fans) so its hard to judge the result exactly

Liamalone

Thread fail, poll reset lol

Will I Amnt

Be interesting to see his goal return from the games against United, City, Chelsea and Arsenal since he arrived at Liverpool if anybody has those stats.

The_Kew_Tour

It reminds me of people who say Robbie Keane does not do it in big internationals.

Yes because you're just as likely to score Hatrick against Germany just like you would San Marino

Gbear

Nuts102 wrote: »

The bolded part just is a load of nonsense. Their are only two players in the world a distance better than Aguero and Suarez is a long way of them.

Ok. A distance is one of those "how long is a piece of string" sort of things.

He's not massively better. But I think he's clearly better.

He's at least as good at virtually everything that makes Aguero stand out from other players.
In addition to that, Suarez is a better dribbler, better at set pieces, he's a better passer of the ball, he's better at creating goals for others.
He's been all those things playing for what has been at times a considerably worse team than Aguero's.

Soups123 wrote: »

Not that I agree with the point about big games , but tbh the games people are talking about would be city, Chelsea United and Arsenal

He's scored once against all of them, except Chelsea, who he's scored twice against.

Not great, but it's also worth pointing out that Liverpool were by a distance worse than all those teams for much of Suarez' time here.

He also has got plenty of assists in that time. Like those 3 for Kuyt against Utd in his first season.

It's not like he goes missing in those games with the exception of Arsenal away in the league this season, where they shut him down very well.

I'd have Aguero at Liverpool in a heartbeat. I love him as a player.
There's just a general classiness and competence about everything he does on the pitch. Every inch of his play could be used as a textbook example.
It broke my heart that Benitez wanted him but the owners wouldn't stump up the cash and he went to Atletico the season after.

But I don't think there's any way you could pick him over Suarez.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It reminds me of people who say Robbie Keane does not do it in big internationals.

Yes because you're just as likely to score Hatrick against Germany just like you would San Marino

It's just a lazy arguement by people who can't be ársed to look for actual stats.

prettyboy81

Suarez but not by much over Aguero then RVP.

finno

Suarez without a doubt

Will I Amnt

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It reminds me of people who say Robbie Keane does not do it in big internationals.

Yes because you're just as likely to score Hatrick against Germany just like you would San Marino

In fairness, you can't say that on one hand and claim you were the better team at The Etihad, Stamford Bridge etc. on the other.
Liverpool are almost always competitive against any of the top teams.
It's nothing like Ireland v Germany.

hefferboi

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Be interesting to see his goal return from the games against United, City, Chelsea and Arsenal since he arrived at Liverpool if anybody has those stats.

In the league:

21 games, 7 goals, 7 assists.

Add Everton and Spurs.

33 games, 14 goals, 16 assists.

Will I Amnt

hefferboi wrote: »

In the league:

21 games, 7 goals, 7 assists.

Add Everton and Spurs.

33 games, 14 goals, 16 assists.

That's a decent return, nothing wrong with that.

hefferboi

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's a decent return, nothing wrong with that.

Exactly. Hard to find a player who'll beat those stats by much.

Will I Amnt

hefferboi wrote: »

Exactly. Hard to find a player who'll beat those stats by much.

RvP last season was prolific against those teams. Swapping out United for Pool.

Can only remember the 1 Suarez goal v United, would that be right?

daingeanrob

suarez, for his overall play. immense

Soups123

hefferboi wrote: »

In the league:

21 games, 7 goals, 7 assists.

Add Everton and Spurs.

33 games, 14 goals, 16 assists.

So over 21 games he failed to score in 14 ? The same stats can be worded in different ways to look good or bad!

Regardless of stats he is a quality player and he and Aguero are top class at what the do.

hefferboi

Will I Amnt wrote: »

RvP last season was prolific against those teams. Swapping out United for Pool.

Can only remember the 1 Suarez goal v United, would that be right?

2, I think. Both in the 11/12 season.

EuropeanSon

Heskey.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

AdamD

Phoenix wrote: »

Has any non Liverpool fan voted for Suarez?

Yes

garra

Suarez for his bloody minded will power and range of goals, and for his (over-looked) assists tally too

Marty McFly

Phoenix wrote: »

Has any non Liverpool fan voted for Suarez?

Yes and I'm fair there have been plenty others.

Blatter

Deleted User wrote: »

Ha good question that has me stumped, I tried to think of Aguero strengths only to realize that Suarez does that too, then trying to decipher who edges it in a given category, its very fine margins. I probably plump for Aguero as I think he is a more likable character (and I am a City fan (since 2000))

I'd honestly say that Aguero has more genuine pace and an extraordinary burst of acceleration that Suarez doesn't quite have and holds the ball up top that little bit better (although Suarez doesn't play right up top as much as Aguero, so It's kind of difficult to make that comparison)

Other than that i think Suarez is a better dribbler, a better passer, more creative, just as good at shooting and is more versatile (is a good bit more comfortable in the wide areas than Aguero is)

Phoenix wrote: »

Has any non Liverpool fan voted for Suarez?

Me, for one and I'm sure there's others.

What's your reasoning behind asking?

super_furry

On current form Suarez, on past form Van Persie.

Liam O

2 seasons ago RvP was the best player in the league when at Arsenal, Rooney 2nd and Suarez while playing well was quite far back. I know he was prolific at Ajax and I enjoyed watching him there and rated him quite highly but the way he's added the goals to his game is astounding imo. Scoring from every angle and everything going for him and Liverpool atm.

With these players though sooner or later things start to go against you for a period and it's the reaction to that when you really see what a player is made of. RvP is still scoring well but not having the overall influence he has shown the last 2 seasons. Aguero has come back from a disappointing last year and shown he has true quality. There is always the risk of turning into another Torres though when these things start to go against you. So I'll reserve judgement for when the expectancy is there next season if Liverpool qualify for the CL and have to play more games and teams will shut up shop against them more than they are now. Until then yes he is playing the best stuff in the PL but the others have shown it at the top level over a longer sample.

Pilsbury Doughboy

Just because you don't actually score a goal in a big name does not mean that you don't show up.

Suarez got 3 assists against Man Utd including one where he danced around about 5 of them in the same space as a phonebox, and set Kuyt up for a hattrick from about 8 yards in total, Suarez was superb in that match but that won't reflect in the stats, I'm sure there would be plenty other big games where he played very well but didn't score.

In a nutshell the Suarez doesn't do it against big teams is lazy nonsense.

Rayne Wooney

The goals per game against Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Everton, Liverpool, Spurs and United for the last 4 seasons work out at:

Aguero - 0.55
RVP - 0.5
Suarez - 0.38

RVP played 11 'big games' more than Aguero in that time with Suarez in between, playing 7 more than Aguero and 4 less than RVP.

Themz the stats, but they never tell a whole picture

Talib Fiasco

When fully fit Aguero is the best player in the league. It has to be him for me.

Skylinehead

Phoenix wrote: »

Has any non Liverpool fan voted for Suarez?

Yes. Why?

Just as interestingly, have any Liverpool fans not voted for Suarez?

Gbear

Skylinehead wrote: »

Yes. Why?

Just as interestingly, have any Liverpool fans not voted for Suarez?

No. But that's because we're right.:p

Take Your Pants Off

I see loads of people talking here about Suarez performance this season, and this season only.
I am talking about the best out of them 3 overall.
I go for Aguero.
In fairness Aguero missed around 5 or more games then Suarez.
If anyone can remember, when Aguero came back in January after an injury he was subbed on and 10 seconds in the game he scored !!.

Vito Corleone

Suarez without a doubt. RVP, not even a contender.

Gbear

Take Your Pants Off wrote: »

I see loads of people talking here about Suarez performance this season, and this season only.
I am talking about the best out of them 3 overall.
I go for Aguero.
In fairness Aguero missed around 5 or more games then Suarez.
If anyone can remember, when Aguero came back in January after an injury he was subbed on and 10 seconds in the game he scored !!.

Well bringing up last season doesn't favour Aguero at all.
Suarez scored nearly twice the number of league goals as him last year.

Liam O

Vito Corleone wrote: »

Suarez without a doubt. RVP, not even a contender.

Yeah. The top scorer in the league of the last 2 seasons and 11 in 15 this season isn't a contender. Some fans really lose the run of themselves when they are so clearly biased. RvP fired his team to the league last season. Fired his team to 4th the 2 seasons before. Suarez is doing that for the first time this season. But yeah, go on.

Take Your Pants Off

EPL

Aguero:
81 apps 50 goals
Goal Percentage: 61.7%

Suarez:
99 apps 61 goals(excluding todays game)
Goal Percentage: 61.6%

.......
I could go overall as well....

Sheepy99

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's a decent return, nothing wrong with that.

Are we looking at supposedly decent players though?

Sheepy99

Hazard have the potential to be mentioned in the same breadth as these?
Completely different player to the other 3 I know

Liam O

Take Your Pants Off wrote: »

EPL

Aguero:
81 apps 50 goals
Goal Percentage: 61.7%

Suarez:
99 apps 61 goals(excluding todays game)
Goal Percentage: 61.6%

.......
I could go overall as well....

Robin Van Persie in the league last 4 seasons.
116 apps 85 goals.
Goal percentage 73.2%

Think you forgot him in your post there.