Salmon caught in the sea

Zzippy

I've heard of the very odd salmon caught off the coast, generally on spinning gear, haven't actually witnessed it myself but have heard enough accounts that I believe it may be possible. As for salmon not feeding in freshwater, not always true. I've seen photos of a salmon that was caught on dry fly on Corrib - the photos were of the stomach when the fish was cleaned, and the stomach was stuffed full of mayfly nymphs and adult mayfly - it was taking hatching fly on the surface and the angler covered it thinking it was a taking trout.

Mr Bumble

Sorry to disagree Dan but I've seen a salmon caught on a mackerel strip on the point west of the narrows where the cashen hits the sea. I've no pictures but the wife was there too so another witness . July 2005.
It was caught by a South African chef working in the Marine Hotel and he had two beach casters in the surf on the turn of the tide. We were chatting away and one of the rods bounced out of the holder. Big bass was the first thought but it was a good salmon, near 10lbs. I know a sea trout from a salmon and it was definitely a salmon, no doubt.

floattuber_lee

I think everyone is in agreement (apart from dan maybe) that yes it might happen on the odd very rare occasion. The OP did say there was 2 caught. surely this must be pushing the odds so far out that we could say in this case they were sea trout? or maybe escapees?

dazza161989

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Sorry to disagree Dan but I've seen a salmon caught on a mackerel strip on the point west of the narrows where the cashen hits the sea. I've no pictures but the wife was there too so another witness . July 2005.
It was caught by a South African chef working in the Marine Hotel and he had two beach casters in the surf on the turn of the tide. We were chatting away and one of the rods bounced out of the holder. Big bass was the first thought but it was a good salmon, near 10lbs. I know a sea trout from a salmon and it was definitely a salmon, no doubt.

I remember my uncle telling me about that, it was off the far point of the long strand I think

dodderangler

Suprised by a lot on this thread. For an angler to say its impossible or never happened then he's not an angler.
We've all caught fish on something we never thought. I caught a jack pike on a sausage before while camping. A Rudd on a spinner. And other strange things just to see.
They're fish for god sake. They'll attack anything. A salmon to take a spinner at sea is not impossible. Fish passing will take a spinner out of pure aggression.
We all know it to be true. So yes I well believe it even without pics.

Mr Bumble

An escapee is a fair call all right though I'm as sure as I can be that the one I saw was a wild fish. I've a hazy memory of someone taking one from the deep salt water pool at the bottom of the Owenwee near Westport. This wouldn't be a bad time to test the theory. From what I hear there a very steady run of escapees into all the rivers on the south west and south coasts. I've heard 280,000 mentioned but that seems ridiculous/scary. I've no doubt escapees would take anything put in front of them - in sea or freshwater. Was on Currane ten days ago and no sign there.
I've also seen John Wilson fish for Atlantic salmon off Newfoundland on mackerel strip and if memory serves me, up a fjord in Norway. There's plenty of youtube footage of kings being taken on rod and line in the ocean on US west coast. Presumably, if you know where they're feeding and what they're feeding on, it shouldn't be that hard.

Mr Bumble

dodderangler wrote: »

Suprised by a lot on this thread. For an angler to say its impossible or never happened then he's not an angler.
We've all caught fish on something we never thought. I caught a jack pike on a sausage before while camping. A Rudd on a spinner. And other strange things just to see.
They're fish for god sake. They'll attack anything. A salmon to take a spinner at sea is not impossible. Fish passing will take a spinner out of pure aggression.
We all know it to be true. So yes I well believe it even without pics.

To be fair to dan, he is a very experienced angler and has a big pool of knowledge. On most things to do with salmon or sea trout, I would normally defer to him. It would be worth keepiong this thread going. MAybe it happens more often than we think!
btw....did they ever establish whether that big lump of a brownie caught in the Dodder two or three years back was the real deal...someone said they took scale samples but I never heard of a result?

fisherking

On the latest ifi salmon2012 returns there is two salmon recorded from the malahide estuary?

danbrosnan

Well if i am not an angler then i don't know who is, but i just want some one to prove me wrong and show me evidence of a salmon caught in the sea around the coast of Ireland, thats all i am saying, for me, in my opinion its impossible, i am not talking about anywhere else in the world....

I know loads of anglers just spent a whole weekend with a club from dublin fishing down ere in kerry and i have been around angling since a youngfella and i have never seen a salmon caught in the sea....

Do i believe in Ghosts? No! Why? Because i have never seen one!

danbrosnan

fisherking wrote: »

On the latest ifi salmon2012 returns there is two salmon recorded from the malahide estuary?

They got a lot of things wrong in the records, like the commercial numbers of salmon caught around the coast of ireland..

stylie

dodderangler wrote: »

A Rudd on a spinner.

That's not uncommon at all. My friends and I caught quite a few big Rudd from a private lake back in the old days. Small spinners and the Rudd were big, around the lb and over. We thought nothing of it, wasn't strange to us at all.

Better add my 2cents to this debate. Salmon can be caught in salt water, some Scottish fisheries do very well targeting them in very salty water but two on Mackeral strips just doesn't happen, they are Sea trout.

macscoob

i took one(sea trout) on ballygarret beach wexford.....it was at night fell to a lug. it was a beaut.

danbrosnan

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Sorry to disagree Dan but I've seen a salmon caught on a mackerel strip on the point west of the narrows where the cashen hits the sea. I've no pictures but the wife was there too so another witness . July 2005.
It was caught by a South African chef working in the Marine Hotel and he had two beach casters in the surf on the turn of the tide. We were chatting away and one of the rods bounced out of the holder. Big bass was the first thought but it was a good salmon, near 10lbs. I know a sea trout from a salmon and it was definitely a salmon, no doubt.

I have known very experienced anglers mistaken big sea trout as salmon... But I find very hard to believe, not calling you a liar at all... Gonna actually try there a few times this year after that story, had he a licence lol!

Mr Bumble

fisherking wrote: »

On the latest ifi salmon2012 returns there is two salmon recorded from the malahide estuary?

one or two every year if you look back - broadmeadow river - used to be the best sea trout river in Europe according to the legend but there's someone fishing it for salmon. Often wondered would it worth drifting a boat in the lagoon behind the railway line. Anyone done that? Kayakers?
Dan, I saw a salmon caught and you know the spot well. You could say it was caught in freshwater because the push out from the Cashen is very strong but it was outside the estuary proper.

Not wanting to be a smartass but look here - this is pretty definitive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4CJVU6sF4U

Birdie Num Num

danbrosnan wrote: »

Well if i am not an angler then i don't know who is, but i just want some one to prove me wrong and show me evidence of a salmon caught in the sea around the coast of Ireland, thats all i am saying, for me, in my opinion its impossible, i am not talking about anywhere else in the world....

I know loads of anglers just spent a whole weekend with a club from dublin fishing down ere in kerry and i have been around angling since a youngfella and i have never seen a salmon caught in the sea....

Do i believe in Ghosts? No! Why? Because i have never seen one!

I saw a ghost in the sea last week!

dodderangler

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I saw a ghost in the sea last week!

I seen a house fly.
I seen a needle that winked his eye.
But I be done seen about everything when I see an elephant fly.

danbrosnan

Mr Bumble wrote: »

one or two every year if you look back - broadmeadow river - used to be the best sea trout river in Europe according to the legend but there's someone fishing it for salmon. Often wondered would it worth drifting a boat in the lagoon behind the railway line. Anyone done that? Kayakers?
Dan, I saw a salmon caught and you know the spot well. You could say it was caught in freshwater because the push out from the Cashen is very strong but it was outside the estuary proper.

Not wanting to be a smartass but look here - this is pretty definitive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4CJVU6sF4U

Great vid but they obviously fishing in the salmon feeding grounds in the north atlantic, trust me if you could fish for salmon in saltwater in ireland, people would know about it... lol.. I do believe you witnessed it but its a complete flop...

I mean the original op said two were caught in an hour, I'm sorry but thats not true...

I will be fishing the cashen a lot over the next month i hope to god i might catch one..

danbrosnan

Mr Bumble wrote: »

one or two every year if you look back - broadmeadow river - used to be the best sea trout river in Europe according to the legend but there's someone fishing it for salmon. Often wondered would it worth drifting a boat in the lagoon behind the railway line. Anyone done that? Kayakers?
Dan, I saw a salmon caught and you know the spot well. You could say it was caught in freshwater because the push out from the Cashen is very strong but it was outside the estuary proper.

Not wanting to be a smartass but look here - this is pretty definitive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4CJVU6sF4U

Just researched the broadmeadow river there, love little rivers like this, the ones nobody cares about and prove there still fish there, fair play to who catching them salmon his keeping the dream alive....

viper123

danbrosnan wrote: »

I mean the original op said two were caught in an hour, I'm sorry but thats not true...

Got to agree with you there. I know it's possible because I have personally witnessed it but it's needle in a haystack territory. I know of people who do a lot of bass fishing from esturarys etc. and have had any number of sea trout but never salmon. Two salmon would be lottery winning odds...

Mr Bumble

Go back to point above - escapees???
You could use the same argument about sea trout/salmon recognition and suggest that many of the big sea trout caught in the sea every year are salmon. After all, many experienced anglers can't tell the difference .

Zzippy

Mr Bumble wrote: »

Go back to point above - escapees???
You could use the same argument about sea trout/salmon recognition and suggest that many of the big sea trout caught in the sea every year are salmon. After all, many experienced anglers can't tell the difference .

Well if escapees will take, the proof will be in Bantry Bay this year, up to 180,000 salmon escaped from cages there last month!

popsy09

Zzippy wrote: »

Well if escapees will take, the proof will be in Bantry Bay this year, up to 180,000 salmon escaped from cages there last month!

Speaking of escapees I seen one myself this week caught in the river lee

The fish had to be tagged and he got on to ifi and I'm sure they return the tag I didn't get full details

dazza161989

danbrosnan wrote: »

Great vid but they obviously fishing in the salmon feeding grounds in the north atlantic, trust me if you could fish for salmon in saltwater in ireland, people would know about it... lol.. I do believe you witnessed it but its a complete flop...

I mean the original op said two were caught in an hour, I'm sorry but thats not true...

I will be fishing the cashen a lot over the next month i hope to god i might catch one..

Unless your net fishing dan it ain't gonna happen!!!!!

thekevin4540

popsy09 wrote: »

Speaking of escapees I seen one myself this week caught in the river lee

The fish had to be tagged and he got on to ifi and I'm sure they return the tag I didn't get full details

do you no what stretch he was caught on and who got him id no nearly every that fish the lee alot pm me if you want but it would be nice to no who got him and what size ect

Mr Bumble

they seem to be showing up in a few rivers....|Lee and Bandon notably......but no sign of any in Currane...I'm told some have been taken in the Flesk

danbrosnan

Mr Bumble wrote: »

they seem to be showing up in a few rivers....|Lee and Bandon notably......but no sign of any in Currane...I'm told some have been taken in the Flesk

Know a few angers in the flesk and haven't heard anything.. The whole thing a disaster..

Mr Bumble

hearing numbers have been seriously overhyped....280k way above total....more like 30/40k and many of them died on the night it happened.....still not great but small mercies and all that.

Budawanny

The point about this is of course Salmon do not feed when they return to our rivers and coasts.
However what is argued is that the area and time between when salmon will take a bait for the same reason they do in a river and they do in the sea.

take for example my local river . a spate river where the fish cannot move past the bridge in the town if there inst enough water.
The river is tidal to that point. The fish tend to move up to the bridge with the tide, Sniff around for fresh water and move back out to sea with the tide.

During that spell they are in the river but it is entirely saline at this point due to the tide. It is very hard to catch salmon when its like this but it is not impossible. I have done it numerous times in my youth (a fly called the Taylor special being particularly awesome).

Now if you want to ask if its possible or not you should talk to Ken Whelan, He used to run the fishery research in Burrishoole and is one of the foremost Atlantic Salmon researchers in the world.
There was a documentary of him on television years ago catching a salmon in tidal waters in Burrishoole. On the underwater Camera was bladder wrack and green crab. I asked him for the fly name and he gave it to me. The Taylor special mentioned above.

Its a fine line between , river, tidal river and sea. not so clear to draw a line. anyone who suggests it utterly and completely impossible to catch Salmon in the sea rather than almost bloody impossible is plainly and simply wrong.

To be honest id say the more pertinent question here is can the people who claim to have caught a salmon in the sea tell the difference between a wild fish and a farm escapee. All bets are off with the escapees.

Zzippy

Mr Bumble wrote: »

hearing numbers have been seriously overhyped....280k way above total....more like 30/40k and many of them died on the night it happened.....still not great but small mercies and all that.

Where are you hearing that? I'm hearing that they have no idea how many died and how many escaped, some mortalities in the cages and underneath them but no way to count them, and therefore no way to count the escapees. What you're hearing sounds like BIM spin...

EDIT: Coveney has now confirmed, in an answer to a Dail question, that NO mortalities have been recovered, and that 230,000 salmon are unaccounted for!

Auldloon

Hey Zzippy


I love that image in your sig!