Ukraine.

spank_inferno

It must sicken you living in this decadent imperialist west then!

Obviously you crave living in a paradise for the common man, so your departure is for Russia or China is imminent!

Morpheus

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

What would happen is that the neo-imperialist buffoons in the West would shoot themselves in the foot by antagonising Russia by imposing sanctions. Russia could then retaliate by cutting off gas or other supplies. The EU would spiral into a deep recession. America too.

Bush and Blair ARE GONE! Or are they? Our political leaders need to learn something from their mistakes of 2001-2009 but obviously haven't. The arms industry still has the US by the nose and the EU seem to be copycats of them. I know, I know if Obama, who is not Bush and less agreeable to most of their idiotic policies, went up against these and stood up for real American rights, he'd end up like Kennedy (with neo-KKK then could be blamed for something the arms industry lobbies really did).

What the world needs is a recession that affects one industry: the arms industry. Let them lose out bigtime and make them weak.

Russia and Ukraine is their own business. The were all the one up until 1991 and no one really cared if Russia and Ukraine were together or not. And even in the cold war era, the Americans didn't even care who ruled it (a non-communist USSR would do ok). Let them sort it out between them as it is really no business of the US arms industry or a copy cat EU.

Typical reaction from a lot of folks in these parts.

spank_inferno

Indeed.

The irony I'm sure is not lost on this guy that living in the decadent corporate hell-hole that is the West affords him the freedom to dissent.

I'm sure he'd love to live in Russia.
They love dissent!
Their perma-president loves nothing more than political opposition.

Morpheus

Not in my back yard

Just waht was said in the late 30s when Germany decided it fancied sudentenland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland#Sudeten_Crisis

History is a c*nt at repeating itself. Im sure in the 30s folk hereabouts didnt expect another war like the 1st. We shouldnt be too quick to dismiss this derrogation of sovereign rights by the russians.

Crimea IS an internal affair, for UKRAINE. and russia should f**k off back to there territory and be expelled from the crimea altogether.

S.R.

Morpheus wrote: »

Not in my back yard

Just waht was said in the late 30s when Germany decided it fancied sudentenland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland#Sudeten_Crisis

History is a c*nt at repeating itself. Im sure in the 30s folk hereabouts didnt expect another war like the 1st. We shouldnt be too quick to dismiss this derrogation of sovereign rights by the russians.

Crimea IS an internal affair, for UKRAINE. and russia should f**k off back to there territory and be expelled from the crimea altogether.

Did u say same thing about americans and brits, when they invaded/destroyed for example Serbia, Iraq and Afganistan?

S.R.

spank_inferno wrote: »

Indeed.

The irony I'm sure is not lost on this guy that living in the decadent corporate hell-hole that is the West affords him the freedom to dissent.

I'm sure he'd love to live in Russia.
They love dissent!
Their perma-president loves nothing more than political opposition.

If u had option to live either in England or Russia, where would u live?

Morpheus

Tell me again how russia is a full democracy and that putin never altered the rules so he could be president, prime minister and president again and again and how homosexual behavior is not against the law in this peace loving nation and how there is not a large % of the population both fed up with and afraid of his rule in the kremlin?

spank_inferno

S.R. wrote: »

If u had option to live either in England or Russia, where would u live?

Obviously England, I've lived there before as I have US, Germany & of course Ireland.

And you??? Which would you prefer?
And as a follow up, where do you live currently?

Victor

Ports (navy), airfields (red) and other military sites (black) in Crimea.

Morpheus

Thats a lot of hardware... how much is/was ukranian?

BuilderPlumber

spank_inferno wrote: »

Indeed.

The irony I'm sure is not lost on this guy that living in the decadent corporate hell-hole that is the West affords him the freedom to dissent.

I'm sure he'd love to live in Russia.
They love dissent!
Their perma-president loves nothing more than political opposition.

Most users of this site are not living in the West per se. They live in Ireland, which has managed to take advantage of much of what the West has to offer (after fighting the West in 1798, 1916 and 1921) without being part of their wars. This is one thing Ireland has done well at. Uniquely, we are historically a country always at loggerheads with the West but yet we are pragmatic enough to be involved in Western things and also keep our relations with Russia, China, Iran, Iraq and other places down the years cordial too. Only Ireland could do this!

spank_inferno

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Most users of this site are not living in the West per se. They live in Ireland,

Hate to burst that bubble, however its very obvious that Ireland IS a western capitalist country.

I cannot think of any European Nation west of the Iron Curtain that is not a western capitalist country.

The reasons why we are western are obvious & numerous.

S.R.

Xios wrote: »

Half the soldiers station in Belbek March on the Airstrip to retake command of it. The marched unarmed against the russian soldier. Brave ****ers, the lot of em.

The russians were shooting off into the air above them too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/shustry/status/440734434686689280?screen_name=shustry

Video:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151917315347217

bbc news with commentary

Yes, and day before the very same ukranian soldiers left their base without any resist. But once brits with cameras arrived ukranian heros decided to march back.)) Without arms.))

BuilderPlumber

spank_inferno wrote: »

Hate to burst that bubble, however its very obvious that Ireland IS a western capitalist country.

I cannot think of any European Nation west of the Iron Curtain that is not a western capitalist country.

The reasons why we are western are obvious & numerous.

We actually manage to be both a Western and anti-Western country at the same time:

Western: capitalist (if that is criteria: even the so-called communist countries were and are capitalist. Kim Jong Un is a totally capitalist monarch masquerading as a commie), part of EU, speaks English, is in Western Europe, has good relations with the US.

Non-Western: CIRA, PIRA, RIRA, INLA, not being in NATO, not getting involved in wars, we listen to the Wolfe Tones, 1798, 1916, 1921.

That's why Bertie Ahern recently visited Iran: the new government there want to learn from Ireland how to be a Western and non-Western country at the same time!!

norrie rugger

oh holy Hannah. What tripe did i just read

spank_inferno

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

We actually manage to be both a Western and anti-Western country at the same time:

Western: capitalist (if that is criteria: even the so-called communist countries were and are capitalist. Kim Jong Un is a totally capitalist monarch masquerading as a commie), part of EU, speaks English, is in Western Europe, has good relations with the US.

Non-Western: CIRA, PIRA, RIRA, INLA, not being in NATO, not getting involved in wars, we listen to the Wolfe Tones, 1798, 1916, 1921.

That's why Bertie Ahern recently visited Iran: the new government there want to learn from Ireland how to be a Western and non-Western country at the same time!!

Even the most jaded old trotskyist would struggle with that.

Let it go.

The west won.

S.R.

spank_inferno wrote: »

Even the most jaded old trotskyist would struggle with that.

Let it go.

The west won.

What West? Anglo-Saxons who raped this and other countries for centuries? And here u r - Irish man full of happiness in his trousers. Why are u happy? Are u anglo-saxon?

spank_inferno

S.R. wrote: »

What West? Anglo-Saxons who raped this and other countries for centuries? And here u r - Irish man full of happiness in his trousers. Why are u happy? Are u anglo-saxon?

This is getting way off topic & I can appreciate that the internet's army of Putinistas are starting to drift a bit!

Suffice to say, the West won, Ivan lost.
And it feels just great!

S.R.

spank_inferno wrote: »

This is getting way off topic & I can appreciate that the internet's army of Putinistas are starting to drift a bit!

Suffice to say, the West won, Ivan lost.
And it feels just great!

Hello Elizabethista.

U remind me some lads, who would say "f*cking brits" or "english c*nts", yet going mad supporting english football clubs, which bring glory and money to England.

Keep up anglo-saxon tool as high as possible.

BuilderPlumber

Morpheus wrote: »

Tell me again how russia is a full democracy and that putin never altered the rules so he could be president, prime minister and president again and again and how homosexual behavior is not against the law in this peace loving nation and how there is not a large % of the population both fed up with and afraid of his rule in the kremlin?

It is clear that Russia is far from being a democracy. Yes, Putin did do that trick to get a third term and remain as prime minister in between. He is also a divisive figure within Russia with some who idolise him and others who despise him. BUT in the grand scheme of things, he actually is one of Russia's kinder and more successful leaders. That doesn't say much with a country who has Ivan the terrible, Tsar Nicholas 2nd and Stalin among its former leaders along with the more harmless drunks like Kruschev and Yeltsin as well as a succession of elderly poorly leaders (Brezhnev's later years, Andropov and Chernenko).

As regards true democracy: like Santa and the tooth fairy I'm afraid. Democracy is much more than voting and free speech/assembly. Countries like here guarantee that but what the people can't do is get the government to keep their promises and change their actions.

Back to Ukraine: there will be a whole lot of propaganda from all sides here. The Ukrainian govt in Kiev will paint the Russians black and the Russians will paint the Kiev authorities as black. a climate of fear will prevail.

There is ground to be worried about developments in ex-USSR nations. Belarus is run by a Hitler-admiring dictator who rigs elections and who is seldom mentioned. Uzbekistan is lead by a violent dictator who is said to boil opponents to death. One is a Russian ally, the other a Western one. Both are considered useful and can get away with their poor human rights records because they have friends in high places. Wars have already happened in parts of Russia and also Georgia. Azerbaijan is one of the most corrupt nations on earth. And Azerbaijan and Armenia are never too far from conflict potentially breaking out (they even went to war when they were still part of the USSR!!).

Ukraine could end up in a bad state. It really depends on the whole outcome here and who takes over. Interim governments are usually moderate and well meaning but those that come after them may not be.

Scruff

was flicking channels of the old fashion tv thing and came across the last 20 mins of episode 1 of The Complete History of World War 2. It dealt with the appeasement and the expansionism of Nazi Germany into Austria to "unite all German peoples". Frighteningly similar to what Russia is up to in the Ukraine.
Not saying Putin will be the next Hitler but there is a definite sense of Deja vu about the whole thing.
Worth a watch if ye havent seen it. (Its a fantastic documentary on WWII too)

Manic Moran

[MOD]Gentlemen, be careful where you're going. I remind you that it is impossible to 'skirt' the rules, when there is a catch-all for posts which are liable to disrupt the forum.

I refer particularly to S.R. , possibly builderplumber

Warning issued.

[/MOD]

Jawgap

I think when your closest tamest ally refuses to endorse a course of action, you have a problem......

http://belarusdigest.com/story/belarus-refuses-support-russias-invasion-ukraine-17082

Cork boy 55

If Ukraine had a radio-logical doomsday machine this would never have happened

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=2057139342

Jawgap

Irish Colonel on the OSCE Observation Team in Ukraine

Victor

Jawgap wrote: »

Irish Colonel on the OSCE Observation Team in Ukraine

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/197410/297642.jpg

The guy in the middle - is that urban camouflage or something he did himself?

Reggie.

Victor wrote: »

The guy in the middle - is that urban camouflage or something he did himself?

Looks like something he got from pennies, could be just one of them local militias

Conmaicne Mara

Victor wrote: »

The guy in the middle - is that urban camouflage or something he did himself?

Maybe his mother camouflaged it for him?

Reggie.

At first glance I thought it was an EOD suit for mine clearance but somehow I don't think so

Conmaicne Mara

Reggie. wrote: »

At first glance I thought it was an EOD suit for mine clearance but somehow I don't think so

By all accounts it's sowing mines they are, not removing them.

AllthingsCP

Jawgap wrote: »

Irish Colonel on the OSCE Observation Team in Ukraine

Christ they look like thugs

Jawgap

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Christ they look like thugs

Frankly, I don't think that's any way to speak about a Colonel in the PDF

AllthingsCP

Jawgap wrote: »

Frankly, I don't think that's any way to speak about a Colonel in the PDF

lol. Can anyone tell me what other nations officer are in the picture too.

Jawgap

Here's where the photo came from

http://www.osce.org/fsc/116201

According to the OSCE website.....

28 OSCE participating States are participating in the activity [Observation Mission to Ukraine], having sent up to two representatives each. There are 52 participants in total, from: Austria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States. One representative from the OSCE Conflict Prevention Centre is also participating.

AllthingsCP

Jawgap wrote: »

Here's where the photo came from

http://www.osce.org/fsc/116201

According to the OSCE website.....

thanks

Borderfox

Looks like Bear Grylls camouflage!
http://www.beargryllsstore.com/eu/products/survival-clothing/trousers/bear-survivor-trousers-2081.html

madmaxi

Seems to be a Russian Army Special Forces New Uniform Summer Suit GORKA BARS 3 PALATKA.

http://camocity.com/en/gorka-mountain-suits/16-russian-army-special-forces-new-uniform-summer-suit-gorka.html

Borderfox

Out of stock

Summer suit

S.R.

www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-amanpour-lashes-professor-for-repeating-russian-claims-about-ukrainian-opposition/

Tzar Chasm

Chetniks join the party
http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/serbian-chetniks-support-russians-in-crimea-5246411.html

MR.SKYRIM

Are Ukraine and Russian going to have a war and if so how bad would it be for everyone ?

AllthingsCP

MR.SKYRIM wrote: »

Are Ukraine and Russian going to have a war and if so how bad would it be for everyone ?

Have not been following too much of late, But could be bad if Europe place sanctions on Russia. As we are at the end of a very long oil-gas trail starting in Russia.

I don't believe Russia wants all out war with Ukraine because of the possible of Europe and USA getting too involved, Russia is a vast country but military wise the west have made technology advancements over Russia. USA and western troops are more experienced and professional with only some western country's having a conscript army or small professional forces with a larger conscript ratio. Were Russian troops have a lot of conscript soldiers {Still deadly tho}.

Western Air Forces are better maintained over the Russians.

Just compare USA to Russia,
USA. Defence Budget Annual . 600,500,000,000
Russia. Defence Budget Annual . 76,600,000,000

USA have a better infrastructure, More Air Base's, More Fighter jets, More fighter Planes. Better equipped Naval forces better Naval carriers fleet , Higher manpower pool. Russia have more Artg, more tanks. But not enough to make any differences.

Overall Russia would lose any war with the west, But that's not saying it would not be bloody lost of life would be huge. And Europe would be in Ruins. Also if this ever sparked it would not turn nuclear all party's involved are not that stupid.

ardle1

Russia don't seem to be keen on an actual 'battle', they gave a press release tonight, blaming 'pro Russian' activist's on the death of that Ukranian soldier ... Hence not blaming Russian Military!

AllthingsCP

ardle1 wrote: »

Russia don't seem to be keen on an actual 'battle', they gave a press release tonight, blaming 'pro Russian' activist's on the death of that Ukranian soldier ... Hence not blaming Russian Military!

For a better list of who has what.



http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=United-States-of-America&country2=Russia&Submit=Compare+Countries

Not far off the ball.

comongethappy

Almost zero chance of a war.

AllthingsCP

comongethappy wrote: »

Almost zero chance of a war.

Theirs always a chance when egos and pride are been tested. Putin vs Obama rather then USA vs Russia.

Xios

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Theirs always a chance when egos and pride are been tested. Putin vs Obama rather then USA vs Russia.

I doubt their Ego's will come into this in any way, shape or form. War has been, and always will be about money. If its not financially viable to go to war, then it won't happen.

That being said, Maybe the U.S. and Russia might actually want to go to war, it'll be a huge boost to the Military-industrial complex which is in need of new military contracts, seeing as Afghanistan and Iraq are no longer occupied. (tinfoil hat stuff)

AllthingsCP

Xios wrote: »

I doubt their Ego's will come into this in any way, shape or form. War has been, and always will be about money. If its not financially viable to go to war, then it won't happen.

That being said, Maybe the U.S. and Russia might actually want to go to war, it'll be a huge boost to the Military-industrial complex which is in need of new military contracts, seeing as Afghanistan and Iraq are no longer occupied. (tinfoil hat stuff)

Putin is an egotists, So egos have quite a lot to do here. Georgia now Ukraine the biggest Soviet bloc countries Putin is saying look how easy it is to annex these country's.

Russia has Europe firmly by the {Well you all know where]

''Russian Ambassador to Ireland has warned the Government that Ireland will suffer serious economic consequences if it supports further EU sanctions against the Russian Federation''

Russians are well verse in harsh times so the Russian people could cope with sanctions, But could you or me when Heating rations and other supplies start drying up.

See how long till Dublin-London-Paris-Berlin-Madrid and so start to burn from its own people and how long our little Police Forces can maintain order.

Xios

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Putin is an egotists, So egos have quite a lot to do here. Georgia now Ukraine the biggest Soviet bloc countries Putin is saying look how easy it is to annex these country's.

Russia has Europe firmly by the {Well you all know where]

''Russian Ambassador to Ireland has warned the Government that Ireland will suffer serious economic consequences if it supports further EU sanctions against the Russian Federation''

Russians are well verse in harsh times so the Russian people could cope with sanctions, But could you or me when Heating rations and other supplies start drying up.

See how long till Dublin-London-Paris-Berlin-Madrid and so start to burn from its own people and how long our little Police Forces can maintain order.

Jaysus you're all doom and gloom. It won't happen. Unless China or India pull out a wild card. Crimea is now Russia's, there won't be a war between Russia and Ukraine unless something stupid happens. Ukraine will remain in a state of upheavel for a considerable amount of time, due to ethnic russians wanting to rejoin russia. Perhaps in 3 to 6 months, things will flair up again when Russia starts making moves again.

AllthingsCP

Xios wrote: »

Jaysus you're all doom and gloom. It won't happen. Unless China or India pull out a wild card. Crimea is now Russia's, there won't be a war between Russia and Ukraine unless something stupid happens. Ukraine will remain in a state of upheavel for a considerable amount of time, due to ethnic russians wanting to rejoin russia. Perhaps in 3 to 6 months, things will flair up again when Russia starts making moves again.

I'm not talking about a war in that post i said sanctions and Russia expansion of if territory ambitions and the sheer lack of power to stop them other then war!. Any sanction on Russia would damages us just as bad then its just what populace holds out longer, Russia knows this but they also know how far to push and what time frame to push at. USA foreign policy is weak Obama administration is in no shape to handle Russia. Russia and USA are two bullies on the school yard.

Can't see India taken any side really as they have really just stayed out of the whole thing. China did voice concerns because of their own similar issues with Taiwan.