Landlord trying to sell the house

skeptik

I know that in this country a landlord is legally allowed to sell their house out from under you even with a lease but I want to know can I stop people from coming to view the house and can I pull out of the lease on the grounds that there's strangers wandering around my house and I have a young child?!

fussyonion

The owner of the property has to allow people to view the place but he should let you know in advance about people coming to see the house.

You can't break your lease just because there are potential buyers coming to see the house, but you should have been told beforehand that people were coming.

Was this the case? Did you get warning?

skeptik

fussyonion wrote: »

The owner of the property has to allow people to view the place but he should let you know in advance about people coming to see the house.

You can't break your lease just because there are potential buyers coming to see the house, but you should have been told beforehand that people were coming.

Was this the case? Did you get warning?

Well for the first viewing the auctioneer gave 2 hours notice. At least the landlord himself gave a few days notice about the upcoming. The day I gave the deposit I was told by the auctioneer, while on the phone to the landlord, that there would be very few viewings. Now 3 viewings in 3 weeks is not very few. I feel like I've been conned by the auctioneer not so much the landlord. I know people have to view the house but it's disrupting our lives and starting to stress me out

fussyonion

skeptik wrote: »

Well for the first viewing the auctioneer gave 2 hours notice. At least the landlord himself gave a few days notice about the upcoming. The day I gave the deposit I was told by the auctioneer, while on the phone to the landlord, that there would be very few viewings. Now 3 viewings in 3 weeks is not very few. I feel like I've been conned by the auctioneer not so much the landlord. I know people have to view the house but it's disrupting our lives and starting to stress me out

I understand it's stressful but the Landlord is obviously getting a lot of attention for the property and though I understand it's disruptive, just go with it.

I assume you're moving out soon anyway?

Having people in to see the house is just one of those things, but I would say if they were just knocking on the door, without notice, to view the house, then that would not sound right to me.

eyescreamcone

3 viewings in 3 weeks is not much in my opinion!

Balmed Out

A landlord has no right to allow viewings without your permission. They can either cone to an agreement with you or end the letting giving you the required period of notice

skeptik

eyescreamcone wrote: »

3 viewings in 3 weeks is not much in my opinion!

You clearly don't live in a house where strangers are wandering in and out of your rooms then!

skeptik

Thanks for the replies. So the consensus is I haven't got grounds to pull out of the lease because the viewings are making me and my family uncomfortable?

skeptik

fussyonion wrote: »

I understand it's stressful but the Landlord is obviously getting a lot of attention for the property and though I understand it's disruptive, just go with it.

I assume you're moving out soon anyway?

Having people in to see the house is just one of those things, but I would say if they were just knocking on the door, without notice, to view the house, then that would not sound right to me.

No, we have just signed the lease. It's for 12 months. Not sure I could put up with this for that length though :-(

Balmed Out

You have grounds to not allow viewings. The landlord can't have it both ways. Either terminate the lease and not gain tent during the selling process or come to an arrangement with you, for example a period on s Saturday morning in exchange for a small discount on rent.

skeptik

Balmed Out wrote: »

You have grounds to not allow viewings. The landlord can't have it both ways. Either terminate the lease and not gain tent during the selling process or come to an arrangement with you, for example a period on s Saturday morning in exchange for a small discount on rent.

Now that sounds more like it! Thank you :-)

fussyonion

OP, I didn't realise you had only just signed a lease.
This changes things drastically.

You need to tell the Landlord that he needs to set up a timetable for viewings if he is adamant he wants them.
He cannot just turn up on the doorstep at the drop of a hat and expect you to be happy with several viewings a week.

skeptik

fussyonion wrote: »

OP, I didn't realise you had only just signed a lease.
This changes things drastically.

You need to tell the Landlord that he needs to set up a timetable for viewings if he is adamant he wants them.
He cannot just turn up on the doorstep at the drop of a hat and expect you to be happy with several viewings a week.

Well that's it, I don't want to stop the man from selling the house but I have a young child. I want to know exactly who's coming to the house and when. And no more than 1 a week. We'll have had 3 in less than 2 weeks come Monday. Think I'll have to have a word on Monday. Thanks :-)

fussyonion

skeptik wrote: »

Well that's it, I don't want to stop the man from selling the house but I have a young child. I want to know exactly who's coming to the house and when. And no more than 1 a week. We'll have had 3 in less than 2 weeks come Monday. Think I'll have to have a word on Monday. Thanks :-)

Ah that's a bit much..how are you meant to lead a normal life with that disruption?
One a week sounds fair enough to me.
Best of luck on Monday

Balmed Out

fussyonion wrote: »

OP, I didn't realise you had only just signed a lease.
This changes things drastically.

You need to tell the Landlord that he needs to set up a timetable for viewings if he is adamant he wants them.
He cannot just turn up on the doorstep at the drop of a hat and expect you to be happy with several viewings a week.

A tenant is under no obligation to allow any viewings at all. If the landLord is adamant he wants viewings hr must get the tenants permission which they are perfectly within their rights to refuse regardless of when a lease was signed. As the landlord is selling the house he can end the lease early, giving the tenant the appropriate notice. If he wants to continue to receive rent he needs to come to an agreement with thetennant. A landlord is within their rights to inspect a property but that doesn't equate to holding viewings.

djimi

A landlord cannot invoke the termination clause from a part 4 tenancy while a fixed term lease is in effect, even if they wish to sell. Why they would sign a further lease while looking to sell is beyond me; very silly thing for them to do.

With regards to viewings, it's entirely up to you how many to allow, and how often. You are perfectly within in your rights to allow none at all if you so choose. Or if you want to accommodate the sale, you can allow an hour a week or whatever in which people can view. It's entirely on your terms, however do not allow the agent to try and bully you with false tales of any obligation to allow a viewing; if they ring with an hours notice do not be afraid to say no.

davo10

skeptik wrote: »

The day I gave the deposit I was told by the auctioneer, while on the phone to the landlord, that there would be very few viewings. t

So you paid the deposit and rented the house in the knowledge that it was for sale and that there would be viewings?

It doesn't matter if the lease is 12 months, sale of the house is one of the reasons a LL can use for ending a tenancy agreement (I think, see below). Also if new owner is buying as an investment, having a sitting tenant has its advantages.

Like others, I think 3 in three weeks is not excessive.

davo10

djimi wrote: »

A landlord cannot invoke the termination clause from a part 4 tenancy while a fixed term lease is in effect, even if they wish to sell. o.

Djimi are you sure about this? My understanding is that the sale of the property is one of the few instances when a LL can end a tenancy by giving the required notice. As far as I'm aware the house must be sold and that LL cannot re-let again if not sold.

I'm not certain about this and would appreciate clarification.

eyescreamcone

davo10 wrote: »

Djimi are you sure about this? My understanding is that the sale of the property is one of the few instances when a LL can end a tenancy by giving the required notice. As far as I'm aware the house must be sold and that LL cannot re-let again if not sold.

I'm not certain about this and would appreciate clarification.

I think if it's not sold the landlord must prove that every effort must've been made to sell, plus the house can't be re-let again within 3 months.

The_Conductor

davo10 wrote: »

Djimi are you sure about this? My understanding is that the sale of the property is one of the few instances when a LL can end a tenancy by giving the required notice. As far as I'm aware the house must be sold and that LL cannot re-let again if not sold.

I'm not certain about this and would appreciate clarification.

Part 4 tenancy.
A landlord cannot invoke this clause under a fixed term lease- unless it is specifically listed as a break clause in a fixed term lease.

A fixed term lease can (and very often does) give a tenant rights significantly above those afforded to them under a Part 4 tenancy- in this instance- they have security of tenure for the term of the fixed term.

I'd echo the sentiments above- it was spelt out at the outset that the property was for sale. Agree to vacate the property for viewings on Saturday mornings between 10AM and 1PM (for example) in exchange for a significant discount on the rent. The landlord (and their agent, the auctioneer) cannot have it every which way.

Davo10- I'd suggest you check out Part 4 Tenancies- and what they entail- and then have a look at Fixed Term Tenancies- they are two different (though related) kettle of fish.

The_Conductor

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I think if it's not sold the landlord must prove that every effort must've been made to sell, plus the house can't be re-let again within 3 months.

Once again- Part 4 tenancy only- unless, a specific clause in the Fixed Term lease, introduces this provision (which is entirely satisfactory from a legal perspective- it can mirror the terms of a Part 4 tenancy- but it cannot detract from them).

djimi

davo10 wrote: »

Djimi are you sure about this? My understanding is that the sale of the property is one of the few instances when a LL can end a tenancy by giving the required notice. As far as I'm aware the house must be sold and that LL cannot re-let again if not sold.

I'm not certain about this and would appreciate clarification.

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

djimi

The_Conductor wrote: »

Part 4 tenancy.
A landlord cannot invoke this clause under a fixed term lease- unless it is specifically listed as a break clause in a fixed term lease.

A fixed term lease can (and very often does) give a tenant rights significantly above those afforded to them under a Part 4 tenancy- in this instance- they have security of tenure for the term of the fixed term.

I'd echo the sentiments above- it was spelt out at the outset that the property was for sale. Agree to vacate the property for viewings on Saturday mornings between 10AM and 1PM (for example) in exchange for a significant discount on the rent. The landlord (and their agent, the auctioneer) cannot have it every which way.

Davo10- I'd suggest you check out Part 4 Tenancies- and what they entail- and then have a look at Fixed Term Tenancies- they are two different (though related) kettle of fish.

Not a chance should the tenant be vacating the property. It's bad enough having strangers brought into your home, but if it were me I would want to ensure that I am there to keep an eye on them at all times.

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

Not a chance should the tenant be vacating the property. It's bad enough having strangers brought into your home, but if it were me I would want to ensure that I am there to keep an eye on them at all times.

If I could extract a sufficient discount from the landlord- I'd run with it- but its entirely up to the OP- and course, he/she is under no obligation whatsoever to go along with it (unless its spelt out in their lease- which I strongly suspect it isn't). And even if they tried to add a proviso to allow viewings in a lease- it would doubtless fall if ever challenged- as it would introduce terms more onerous on a tenant- than those in the P4 tenancy.

All-in-all, the landlord was a fool for giving them a 1 year fixed term lease, and has needlessly tied themselves in knots. How the tenant manages this- is up to them- but the tenant holds all the cards on this one.

weisses

Sorry to hijack the thread a small bit

What about if you signed fixed term leases but they expired awhile back (9 years of tenancy) ??

The_Conductor

weisses wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread a small bit

What about if you signed fixed term leases but they expired awhile back (9 years of tenancy) ??

Then you're on Part 4- the landlord has to give you the requisite notice (you're on year 1 of a second 4 year cycle)- and the landlord selling the property is a valid reason to terminate the tenancy (with the requisite notice).

Murt10

Plus the tenant can presumably dictate the times of the viewings.

If, for example, they were to say that they were only prepared to allow viewings of their house between 9.00 and 10.00 am on the first
Wednesday morning of the month, then this is the only time that viewings could take place.

Can't see too many potential buyers coming to viewings with such limited potential. Plus they could also arrange for one or two of the other occupants to be in bed during the viewing.

In order to allow more favourably timed viewings, with no one in bed, and the house reasonably tidy, not having cooked curry or smoked fish or both, the night before, toilets flushed, a substantial discount should be discussed.

Tenant has landlord over a barrel.

weisses

The_Conductor wrote: »

Then you're on Part 4- the landlord has to give you the requisite notice (you're on year 1 of a second 4 year cycle)- and the landlord selling the property is a valid reason to terminate the tenancy (with the requisite notice).

Got it

He has every right to sell of course Was informed last week of his intend but have the first viewing tomorrow already... Now Im not to fuzzy about people coming to the house so now and then ... but am not planning my life around viewings either

Thanks for the helpful info regarding refusing the viewings, its not something i would do but good to know anyway

djimi

The_Conductor wrote: »

If I could extract a sufficient discount from the landlord- I'd run with it- but its entirely up to the OP- and course, he/she is under no obligation whatsoever to go along with it (unless its spelt out in their lease- which I strongly suspect it isn't). And even if they tried to add a proviso to allow viewings in a lease- it would doubtless fall if ever challenged- as it would introduce terms more onerous on a tenant- than those in the P4 tenancy.

All-in-all, the landlord was a fool for giving them a 1 year fixed term lease, and has needlessly tied themselves in knots. How the tenant manages this- is up to them- but the tenant holds all the cards on this one.

I think for me the issue of the viewings is a matter of security; I suppose it boils down to how much you trust the agent to keep an eye on the people in the house. At least if Im there, I can watch people that they arent stealing stuff from my home. Im not sure that I would trust an agent to be so careful, or that I would be entirely happy that an agent couldnt be temporarily distracted. It might sound paranoid, but its my home that we are talking about.

hdowney

I'd be with you Djimi - I'd want to be there to keep an eye on things. I wouldn't want strangers wandering round my home when I am not there. Also having the current residents in the house can prove useful to potential buyers I would have thought. They can ask questions about the property that the resident is most likely to know seen as they live in the place - such as how well it keeps the heat (as opposed to just seeing a BER rating) and the like?

OP I would say certainly contact the landlord/agent and get some terms set out. You are in the driving seat here as you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of your home, so people traipsing round whenever the agent/landlord feel like it is not acceptable. Set out your terms, let them come back with their own and see if you can come to an agreement. If they are looking for more viewings than you suggest and you are possibly amenable to it for a reduction in rent then say so. At the end of the day it is in the landlords best interest to get you on side if he genuinely wants to sell the property as you are under no obligation to allow any viewings and can dig your heels in about this point if he doesn't want to come to an agreement. Good luck.

TheDriver

3 viewings in 3 weeks is nothing. you get all your viewings in the first 1-2 weeks and then it goes quiet. Initial interest shows eagerness to buy