aer lingus strike

end of the road

Foxtrol wrote: »

There’s a concept of escalating industrial action but what we’ve seen with this strike and the ESB one is to choose a time when it will hurt the public most from the get go. It’s a shameful tactic but I don’t expect anything more from them.

untrue nonsense, this course of action was only taken as a last resort, end of story

Foxtrol wrote: »

Striking should really be a thing of the past

its necessary as a last resort, sure we'd all like to see everything work perfectly and striking not to be needed but this is the real world and it needs to be there.

Foxtrol wrote: »

there are enough independent labour relations instruments available now to avoid them.

their not enough, that tool of last resort needs to be there

Foxtrol wrote: »

It’s pathetic when out of touch sheep like members of staff get wound up by unions to dig their heels in when numerous independent industrial relations mechanisms are advising them that their demands are unrealistic.

their not out of touch sheep, and its not pathetic at all.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think strikes should only be allowed if a company refuses to go along with what has been recommended by an independent body.

no, they should be allowed full stop as a last resort, the system we have currently.

Foxtrol wrote: »

If people want to join a union that’s fine but if their union is incapable of explaining to an independent body why their demands should/could be met by a company then they should turn their ire on their union, not go on strike. The whole nation shouldn’t be held to ransom due to a few union members’ delusions of what they’re worth and/or their union’s incompetence.

the nation isn't being held to ransom, and the union leaders aren't delusianel nor have delusians of what their worth.

end of the road

Ace2007 wrote: »

think EOTR is a woman

wrong

Ace2007 wrote: »

which could explain a lot

explain what

Ace2007

So what happens if the strike doesn't solve the pension problem, what are they going to do - just strike continuously until the government gets involved?

Foxtrol

end of the road wrote: »

untrue nonsense, this course of action was only taken as a last resort, end of story

Yes, striking could be seen as a last resort but you don’t have to strike at a time that will hurt the most people. It’s ridiculous to threaten to go nuclear straight away. It’s like saying prison is a last resort but seeing as it’s a last resort everyone should get the maximum prison sentence. It’s ridiculous logic.

its necessary as a last resort, sure we'd all like to see everything work perfectly and striking not to be needed but this is the real world and it needs to be there.

their not enough, that tool of last resort needs to be there

their not out of touch sheep, and its not pathetic at all.

no, they should be allowed full stop as a last resort, the system we have currently.

The system clearly isn’t working.

As I said in my post, it should be a last resort when a company isn’t being reasonable and accepting the input of an independent body, not a tool for staff/unions to throw their toys out of the pram as they didn’t get everything they want down to the letter or wish to ‘make a stand’ against something that may possibly happen in the future. As you said this is the ‘real world’ but unfortunately many union members/leaders do not appear to inhabit it so they shouldn’t have this weapon to hurt the rest of us indiscriminately.

the nation isn't being held to ransom, and the union leaders aren't delusianel nor have delusians of what their worth.

If threatening to cut power in the middle of winter, in the run up to Christmas, or shutting down the main airports during one of the busiest tourist weekends of the year isn’t holding the nation to ransom then you’re in the same delusional boat with the union members and leaders.

homerjay2005

Ace2007 wrote: »

So what happens if the strike doesn't solve the pension problem, what are they going to do - just strike continuously until the government gets involved?

dont know where this money will come from or what they expect. its a pension fund, in an ecomomy where the financial arse fell out of it.

this is not going to be solved.

Idbatterim

Originally Posted by Ace2007 View Post
So what happens if the strike doesn't solve the pension problem, what are they going to do - just strike continuously until the government gets involved?

EOTR is of the opinion that strikes can force the DAA to back down, in a war between the strikes v the DAA / Government / Public, there is only going to be one victor in times like these...

end of the road

Ace2007 wrote: »

So what happens if the strike doesn't solve the pension problem, what are they going to do - just strike continuously until the government gets involved?

why don't you try get in contact with someone who actually knows the answer and ask them instead of asking me?

Ace2007

end of the road wrote: »

why don't you try get in contact with someone who actually knows the answer and ask them instead of asking me?

Well I know the answer - the strike won't fix the pension problem, but posters like yourself think it will, and hence I would like you know what posters like you think this strike will achieve.

Idbatterim

Aer lingus now rightfully suing for damages! http://m.rte.ie/news/touch/2014/0314/602264-aer-lingus-sues-siptu-for-damages/

sillyoulfool

Hopefully they will bankrupt SIPTU.
I also hope that other Airlines that suffered losses through the illegal activities of SIPTU will also join in the action.

suicide_circus

of all institutions, surely unions should have the technical wherewithal to know when strike action can legally be called? did siptu go full retard?

sillyoulfool

suicide_circus wrote: »

did siptu go full retard?

Why, were they ever any other way.

Foxtrol

This is fantastic, I really hope they bleed them for every cent possible.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Foxtrol

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And members would be fools to pay it.

Woodpecker1

Foxtrol wrote: »

And members would be fools to pay it.

It is probably compulsory to pay the fees.

I have no choice but to pay my union fees. Deducted a source. I tried my best to get out of it, but its in the contract of employment.

It begs the question.

Who protects the employees from SIPTU.

sillyoulfool

Woodpecker1 wrote: »

It is probably compulsory to pay the fees.

I have no choice but to pay my union fees. Deducted a source. I tried my best to get out of it, but its in the contract of employment.

It begs the question.

Who protects the employees from SIPTU.

Actually Union membership is not compulsory following a famous case a few years ago on the right of freedom of disassociation.
You cannot be compelled to be a member of a Trades Union, which is why the vast majority of private sector workers are not in one.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Woodpecker1

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Actually Union membership is not compulsory following a famous case a few years ago on the right of freedom of disassociation.
You cannot be compelled to be a member of a Trades Union, which is why the vast majority of private sector workers are not in one.

Where I work . It is. I work with a retail giant.

One does not have a choice. Been down this road with them and was no way out according to our management.

Although I do avail of decent working conditions and above normal pay compared to other retail sector workers. This is due to Mandate trade union.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

TheDoc

Have to say, about time. This has caused massive diruptions already without going ahead. There was family members planning to come home for the long weekend, cancelled their plans around the uncertainty. And that not only has the obvious aspect of being rubbish, but hits Aerlingus and airlines in their pockets.

I've got pretty strong feelings on trade unions. I felt this year, we would see, and will see, alot of industrial unrest. And I think they just wont be able to help themselves,a nd people will finally get sick to the teeth of hearing and seeing them.

My parents are involved in trade unions, my father worked for the one for An Post for along time, but I've got strong views on them. While they served a purpose back in the day, they have little to no purpose now, expect acting as a tool of unrest and volatility. They are a ticking time bomb, waiting to go off to get their names out there, and demand completely unreasonable stuff for their members, completely oblivious to the situation around them.

Latest example is clampers going to go on strike shortly, for not receiving a 2% pay rise two years ago. So just to re-iterate, Clampers, a profession that will be redundant in the coming months years when clamping is removed and a ticket system is put in place in Dublin City centre, who work for a centralised local form of government, hemorrhaging money since the crisis, want a pay rise......

I've been part of atrade unions before when I worked in retail, and pretty quickly disagreed with their views. Some may remember the Argos strike that took place? I completely disagreed with that ballot, as at the time Argos staff were the highest paid retail staff in Ireland, bar none. I might be one of the few people around who can maybe see both sides of an arguement, and know when the going is good to keep shut over it. Wasn't long before changes came down in Argos.

As a private sector pretty much all my working life, and moving into my "career" the last four years, I havn't been part of a trade union once. I've been able to negotiate and re-negotiate my salary and benefits, provide in a professional way reasoning for entitlement to a bonus or pay increase, and organise and arrange ease of life benefits like working from home and flexible shifts etc.

Minimal fuss, mature, just dealing with it and speaking with my superiors where relevant.

Trade Unions, for me, have run their course, and it's beyond me how critical infrastructure and transport services can be constantly held at ransom. There is good and pretty affordable labour systems and courts in place, for individuals to deal with their issues and disputes.

This putting a gun to the countries head and threatening to stop critical services, cant last long before trade unions are just thrown out entirely

sillyoulfool

Woodpecker1 wrote: »

Where I work . It is. I work with a retail giant.

One does not have a choice. Been down this road with them and was no way out according to our management.

Although I do avail of decent working conditions and above normal pay compared to other retail sector workers. This is due to Mandate trade union.

You are wrong, no contract can supersede your legal rights.
Consequently Union membership cannot be imposed as a condition of employment.

sillyoulfool

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Actually all you need do is issue your employer a written instruction not to deduct union fees. If they refuse to stop the deduction or attempt you pressure you then you contact the NERA (National Employment Rights Agency).

end of the road

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Hopefully they will bankrupt SIPTU.

they won't, i bet the union has enough funds for such possibilities

sillyoulfool wrote: »

I also hope that other Airlines that suffered losses through the illegal activities of SIPTU will also join in the action.

what "losses"

end of the road

TheDoc wrote: »

While they served a purpose back in the day, they have little to no purpose now

wrong, your an employer? or just to trusting of employers? either way if one believes theirs no need for unions now their gullible, even with employment laws their needs to be people who keep the employers in check, independant pannels aren't good enough on their own

TheDoc wrote: »

As a private sector pretty much all my working life, and moving into my "career" the last four years, I havn't been part of a trade union once. I've been able to negotiate and re-negotiate my salary and benefits, provide in a professional way reasoning for entitlement to a bonus or pay increase, and organise and arrange ease of life benefits like working from home and flexible shifts etc.

and thats great, but i suspect your the lucky one

TheDoc wrote: »

Trade Unions, for me, have run their course

no they haven't, their necessary and very much needed and always will

TheDoc wrote: »

it's beyond me how critical infrastructure and transport services can be constantly held at ransom.

their not

TheDoc wrote: »

There is good and pretty affordable labour systems and courts in place, for individuals to deal with their issues and disputes.

not good enough, the unions need to be there also

TheDoc wrote: »

This putting a gun to the countries head and threatening to stop critical services, cant last long before trade unions are just thrown out entirely

they won't be thrown out unless the members decide other wise, if maggie thatcher failed to get rid of all the unions then i should bet that anyone will fail also

rsmike

Idbatterim wrote: »

Aer lingus now rightfully suing for damages! http://m.rte.ie/news/touch/2014/0314/602264-aer-lingus-sues-siptu-for-damages/

Made by day!

rsmike

end of the road wrote: »

they won't, i bet the union has enough funds for such possibilities



what "losses"

Doubtful they have any funds to cover the scale of these losses, and, what losses? You have already forgotten about the cancelled flights? Easy I suppose when you were not affected, As for "Ryanair has said it was reviewing its options." Expect some additions from them (for starters). The silly thing is, if O'Loughlin had listened to the signals from Mueller before he insisted on going ahead with the strike, this could all have been resolved peacefully.

Steppenwolfe

The ignorance in this thread astounds me. You anti union people deserve everything you get. Enjoy your servitude.

suicide_circus

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

The ignorance in this thread astounds me. You anti union people deserve everything you get. Enjoy your servitude.

very few of us here ever had a job that was created by a union, where as plenty of us have been shafted by them in various different ways. unions probably do still have a place but as other social machinery like the LRC and NERA take more of a foothold, they will get less and less relevant.

sillyoulfool

end of the road wrote: »

wrong, your an employer? or just to trusting of employers? either way if one believes theirs no need for unions now their gullible, even with employment laws their needs to be people who keep the employers in check, independant pannels aren't good enough on their own

and thats great, but i suspect your the lucky one

no they haven't, their necessary and very much needed and always will

their not

not good enough, the unions need to be there also

they won't be thrown out unless the members decide other wise, if maggie thatcher failed to get rid of all the unions then i should bet that anyone will fail also

Happy days SIPTU will soon b bankrupted, being a union does not excuse criminality.

deise blue

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Happy days SIPTU will soon b bankrupted, being a union does not excuse criminality.

Wishful thinking on your part.

Aer Lingus are seeking 3 million according to media reports today , SIPTU receive annual subscriptions from member's of approx € 33 million & hold assets in the region of € 40 million according to their 2012 published accounts.

It should also be pointed out that the recent High Court judgement did not rule that the ballot held was illegal , SIPTU will of course defend their case & it really is foolhardy to presume that they cannot win same.

sillyoulfool

deise blue wrote: »

Wishful thinking on your part.

Aer Lingus are seeking 3 million according to media reports today , SIPTU receive annual subscriptions from member's of approx € 33 million & hold assets in the region of € 40 million according to their 2012 published accounts.

It should also be pointed out that the recent High Court judgement did not rule that the ballot held was illegal , SIPTU will of course defend their case & it really is foolhardy to presume that they cannot win same.

Wait, it is still open to the Ryanair and the DAA to seek damages as well.

deise blue

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Wait, it is still open to the Ryanair and the DAA to seek damages as well.

They may or they may not - in any event even if ( & it's a big if ) all effected parties were to be successful in any action or putative action against SIPTU then the amount awarded while being an enormous financial burden on the Union it still would not go anywhere near bankrupting the Union.

Then of course the question is will such actions be successful , will full costs be awarded , will the DAA & Ryanair pursue any actions - still a lot of imponderables in play !

Good to see Minister Varadkar rowing in by saying that Aer Lingus's actions are unhelpful.

Amirani

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

The ignorance in this thread astounds me. You anti union people deserve everything you get. Enjoy your servitude.

I have never once benefitted from the existence of trade unions. I have been inconvenienced by their actions on countless occasions. Good ****ing riddance.

rsmike

NiallSparky wrote: »

I have never once benefitted from the existence of trade unions. I have been inconvenienced by their actions on countless occasions. Good ****ing riddance.

+1 as an ordinary employee for 20+ years

deise blue

NiallSparky wrote: »

I have never once benefitted from the existence of trade unions. I have been inconvenienced by their actions on countless occasions. Good ****ing riddance.

On the contrary I believe that every worker in the state has benefitted from the work of trade unions whether or not they are trade union members

Off the top of my head I would reference the 5 day , 40 hour working week , paid annual leave , wage increases - the wage increases under social partnership were applied to the majority of workers in the state whether they were unionised or not , equality legislation , maternity leave , minimum wage - there are many other examples of the beneficial work done by unions but you get the drift - " what have the Romans ever done for us " . There is again the possibility that employers might have voluntarily introduced the above then again pigs may fly !

It should also be remembered that the protection afforded to employees by current employment legislation was introduced at the behest of both the Irish Trade Union movement & the greater Trade Union movement.

I have been lucky enough throughout my working life to have been a member
of a number of Trade Unions & I can honestly say that without such representation my terms & conditions would have not have been as beneficial as they were .

I cannot remember "countless occasions " over the last number of years where anything but minor inconvenience to the general public was caused by industrial action - perhaps you might care to outline a number of examples ?

sillyoulfool

deise blue wrote: »

I cannot remember "countless occasions " over the last number of years where anything but minor inconvenience to the general public was caused by industrial action - perhaps you might care to outline a number of examples ?

Dublin Bus Strike.
Bus Eireann Strike
Threatened strikes at Aer Lingus and DAA

deise blue

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Dublin Bus Strike.
Bus Eireann Strike
Threatened strikes at Aer Lingus and DAA

Threatened but never implemented .

So that leaves Bus Eireann & Dublin bus who between them were on strike for 5 days - justified as well as the negotiated terms were far more beneficial than those that were to be unilaterally imposed on them .

Where are the countless other examples ?

deise blue

NiallSparky wrote: »

How come all or most the above exist in countries without a unionised work culture?

And those countries are ?

Amirani

deise blue wrote: »

And those countries are ?

France.

sillyoulfool

deise blue wrote: »

Threatened but never implemented .

So that leaves Bus Eireann & Dublin bus who between them were on strike for 5 days - justified as well as the negotiated terms were far more beneficial than those that were to be unilaterally imposed on them .

Where are the countless other examples ?

Threatened causing chaos.
Bus workers caused hardship and chaos with greedy demands and ended up no better off!

deise blue

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Threatened causing chaos.
Bus workers caused hardship and chaos with greedy demands and ended up no better off!

Nonsense , the Bus workers ended up appreciably better as a result of the strikes , core pay was protected at Dublin bus & full pay is to be restored at Bus Eireann after the 19 month Agreement terminates - not too long away now.

deise blue

NiallSparky wrote: »

France.

France has a long & proud tradition of Trade Unionism.

The reason why union density is low is that under French Labour law all workers can elect the equivalent of a shop steward ( delegues du personnell ) to represent them , such shop stewards are in practise proposed by the main Trade Unions.

end of the road

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Dublin Bus Strike.
Bus Eireann Strike

all only 1 day strikes, nobody died, a non-issue

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Threatened strikes at Aer Lingus and DAA

not the end of the world, a first world issue

maryishere

deise blue wrote: »

I cannot remember "countless occasions " over the last number of years where anything but minor inconvenience to the general public was caused by industrial action - perhaps you might care to outline a number of examples ?

The ordinary private sector person is paying through the nose with hideous taxes and charges to support the cossetted pay and pensions in the ESB, the public service etc. Ever since Bertie and Co rolled over and gave them whatever they wanted. That's a lot worse than "minor inconvenience". It has the country ******.

NiallSparky wrote: »

I have never once benefitted from the existence of trade unions. I have been inconvenienced by their actions on countless occasions. Good ****ing riddance.

+1. Experience is showing that the vast majority of business is being done with non-unionised companies - people prefer it that way. Unionised businesses are becoming a thing of the past.

Ace2007

end of the road wrote: »

all only 1 day strikes, nobody died, a non-issue

not the end of the world, a first world issue

I see you decided not to answer my question from a few days back, is it because you know I'm right, and they unions could strike for a week and it would still do nothing to change the pension situation.

You argue with every single poster on here that has a view different to yours, but when a question like mine is put to you - you disappear off few a few days, until you can come back and attack someone else.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

all only 1 day strikes, nobody died, a non-issue

Wrong yet again.
The last Dublin bus strike was three days.

end of the road

maryishere wrote: »

The ordinary private sector person is paying through the nose with hideous taxes and charges to support the cossetted pay and pensions in the ESB, the public service etc. Ever since Bertie and Co rolled over and gave them whatever they wanted. That's a lot worse than "minor inconvenience". It has the country ******.

wrong, its to pay back our national debt and the gambling debts of the banks which believe it or not are private sector companies, but lets not let that fact get in the way of bashing the public service, semi-states, and companies the government have shares in.

maryishere wrote: »

Experience is showing that the vast majority of business is being done with non-unionised companies - people prefer it that way.

or maybe they don't have the option to join a union

maryishere wrote: »

Unionised businesses are becoming a thing of the past.

not at all, many many businesses were never unionized at all in the first place

sillyoulfool

The only people in unions are the people who broke the country, cosseted ps workers

end of the road

Ace2007 wrote: »

I see you decided not to answer my question from a few days back, is it because you know I'm right, and they unions could strike for a week and it would still do nothing to change the pension situation.

You argue with every single poster on here that has a view different to yours, but when a question like mine is put to you - you disappear off few a few days, until you can come back and attack someone else.

the strike was called because probably management wouldn't sit down and talk with the staff and listen to the issues over the pentian, your best off putting your question to somebody who works for the company, for what its worth i'd doubt they would ballot for a strike unless it was going to solve something