Dublin GAA and their sponsors.

Godge

keane2097 wrote: »

Better standards for everything for kids is by very definition better preparation for the senior team - where do you think all these players are coming from?

On a different note, I doubt there are many counties that would be able to throw money at a "lifestyle coach" in the vein of Bernard Dunne on top of the various doctors, physios and other support staff and would be very surprised if the net spend on the Dublin seniors isn't the biggest around.

The main purpose and focus of the money has been to increase participation at junior level. That is the right and correct way to do things. If it brings results in terms of more, better senior players then that is to be applauded.

The other way of doing things is to set up a "Friends of X County" fund and use it to get money from business to pay a high-profile manager and increase expenses for senior players. A lot of counties went down this route.

Dublin should be congratulated for the way in which they have gone about building success from the bottom

yop

ProudDUB wrote: »

One All Ireland in 28 years people. One. Un. Uno. A-haon.

What good were those all powerful, all conquering resources and money to us between 1983 and 2011?

Our Arnotts deal was always worth more money than any other counties, but we still won eff all with it for nearly 3 decades.

But feel free to carry on telling yourselves that money is all that matters, if it makes ye feel better.

It does!

So ye are really the Blackburn of Gaelic football (don't even temp comparing to any team, I'm sure who won the Div 1 in 1951!!)

keane2097

ProudDUB wrote: »

One All Ireland in 28 years people. One. Un. Uno. A-haon.

What good were those all powerful, all conquering resources and money to us between 1983 and 2011?

Our Arnotts deal was always worth more money than any other counties, but we still won eff all with it for nearly 3 decades.

But feel free to carry on telling yourselves that money is all that matters, if it makes ye feel better.

You always seem to take such a simplistic approach to arguments about Dublin. I find it hard to believe you're genuinely incapable of wrapping your head around anything more complicated "we're winning now so everyone's only jealous". Is that honestly the only reason you think so many people are spending so much time talking about this?

keane2097

Godge wrote: »

The main purpose and focus of the money has been to increase participation at junior level. That is the right and correct way to do things. If it brings results in terms of more, better senior players then that is to be applauded.

The other way of doing things is to set up a "Friends of X County" fund and use it to get money from business to pay a high-profile manager and increase expenses for senior players. A lot of counties went down this route.

Dublin should be congratulated for the way in which they have gone about building success from the bottom

Absolutely true on all counts, which is what I think I was saying in my first post. The issue isn't really one that anything should be done about in the short term because Dublin's success lately has been down to using their money so well rather than having so much of it, long term I think having so much might end up being a problem alright.

Godge

yop wrote: »

It does!

So ye are really the Blackburn of Gaelic football (don't even temp comparing to any team, I'm sure who won the Div 1 in 1951!!)

No Dublin would not be like Blackburn.

Dublin would be more like Manchester United or Arsenal. They have built resources and structures up from the bottom and are reaping the reward for that.

The rest of the GAA seems to want to ape the Glazers sucking what they can out of the successes at Man U.

Kildare would be more like Blackburn, buying in high-profile managers and players with a short-term focus.

Mal-Adjusted

The success of Dublin on the field really has feck-all to do with having more money. They have always had more money. The county board should be commended for spending it wisely (didn't they used to rent Croke Park at a loss just to build up the supporter base?) and truly pushing both codes.
You can't buy an all-Ireland. We know that this money is going back into the sport, unlike other sporting organisations I could mention where a bit of extra money would just disappear into some executives arse pocket!

grenache

Godge wrote: »

But they haven't put it into player development.

The money has gone into underage participation at club level and to maintaining participation for teenagers. The underage work in Dublin is phenonemal.

The money isn't spent on senior county player development. Yes, the underage work should result long-term in more senior players but Dublin do not pour resources into senior county team preparation in the way that some others do. If they were only interested in senior player success, they would be paying a manager.

A better question than throwing envious eyes at Dublin is why a county such as Limerick, with a good city population meaning short distances to training, facilities and expertise in abundance at UL and LIT, relatively large population-wise doing so bad when Dublin is doing so good. The hard work and dedication is the missing element.

Rugby and soccer are number 1 & 2 in Limerick City. Despite great work being done by clubs like Na Piarsaigh & Monaleen, GAA in the city is still a distant third.

yop

Godge wrote: »

No Dublin would not be like Blackburn.

Dublin would be more like Manchester United or Arsenal. They have built resources and structures up from the bottom and are reaping the reward for that.

The rest of the GAA seems to want to ape the Glazers sucking what they can out of the successes at Man U.

Kildare would be more like Blackburn, buying in high-profile managers and players with a short-term focus.

Nah, United and Arsenal win titles, 1 title in 28 years...

built resources and structures up from the bottom and are reaping the reward for that.

Ah now, you need money to do that, and yous did get a 2m grant specifically for Dublin hurling, if that wasn't there and thats a given, then Dublin hurling would be in shreds.


Kildare buying players..... wasn't there an Antrim hurler mentioned for Dublin last week

buying in high-profile managers -You do know that the backroom staff in Dublin are paid, that is common knowledge, you hardly think Bernard Dunne is there for the good of his health


Listen Dublin has a bag of money to spend and they are spending it, the rest of us need our county boards to work harder to get more sponsorship in.
But look at Spurs, spent 100m+ this summer and it has made no difference. If you dont the players it makes no odds.

Neeson

Man City would be the best comparison.

Joekers

Neeson wrote: »

Man City would be the best comparison.

Ah now Man City have 3 league titles in 134 years, Dublin have 24 All-Irelands in 129 years, hardly the best comparison ?

ArielAtom

Wow, you can almost feel the hatred ftom some posters here. I am involved at grass roots level in both codes. We as a club do a serious amount of fund raising and are not reliant on hand outs. We would take them though. We are no different from most clubs around the country, hard working volunteers making up the coaching staff. If that is contributing to Dublins success at snr level I'm proud to be part of it.

keane2097

ArielAtom wrote: »

Wow, you can almost feel the hatred ftom some posters here. I am involved at grass roots level in both codes. We as a club do a serious amount of fund raising and are not reliant on hand outs. We would take them though. We are no different from most clubs around the country, hard working volunteers making up the coaching staff. If that is contributing to Dublins success at snr level I'm proud to be part of it.

And rightly so. No one should take anything away from GAA people at all levels in Dublin, it's terrific the work you are all doing and I have no doubt it will be good for the game everywhere in years to come.

Mal-Adjusted

ArielAtom wrote: »

Wow, you can almost feel the hatred ftom some posters here. I am involved at grass roots level in both codes. We as a club do a serious amount of fund raising and are not reliant on hand outs. We would take them though. We are no different from most clubs around the country, hard working volunteers making up the coaching staff. If that is contributing to Dublins success at snr level I'm proud to be part of it.

Fair play to you. I see the people keeping my hurling club back in Clare running and the amount of work and time they put in for little if any thanks is staggering.

rambojon

any take on the u21s out tonight.. vs Carlow.. I see the spread is 25 points can this be correct at this grade.. seems huge to me !

yop

ArielAtom wrote: »

Wow, you can almost feel the hatred ftom some posters here. I am involved at grass roots level in both codes. We as a club do a serious amount of fund raising and are not reliant on hand outs. We would take them though. We are no different from most clubs around the country, hard working volunteers making up the coaching staff. If that is contributing to Dublins success at snr level I'm proud to be part of it.

Its not hatred on my part, just highlight the fact that 2m euro was given specifically to Dublin hurling to promote it within the County. No other County got that 2m to promote a code. Not hatred, as Rafa once said, facts

2m spread over all the clubs might only between 5,000 and 10k so not going to have big impact, but its still euros

klairondavis

Godge wrote: »

No Dublin would not be like Blackburn.

Dublin would be more like Manchester United or Arsenal. They have built resources and structures up from the bottom and are reaping the reward for that.

The rest of the GAA seems to want to ape the Glazers sucking what they can out of the successes at Man U.

Kildare would be more like Blackburn, buying in high-profile managers and players with a short-term focus.

Some of what has gone on in Kildare recently has been narrowly focused and ill advised. Johnston being the obvious example here.

However, Kildare have invested hugely in the underage structures in the county. That investment is beginning to bear fruit. Kildare teams won Leinster football titles at u21, minor, u16 and junior level in 2013. It's wholly inaccurate to suggest that Kildare have just pumped money solely in their senior set up over the last few years.

ArielAtom

yop wrote: »

Its not hatred on my part, just highlight the fact that 2m euro was given specifically to Dublin hurling to promote it within the County. No other County got that 2m to promote a code. Not hatred, as Rafa once said, facts

2m spread over all the clubs might only between 5,000 and 10k so not going to have big impact, but its still euros

We can lobby them to throw 2m at hurling in Mayo if you like;)

Mal-Adjusted

yop wrote: »

2m spread over all the clubs might only between 5,000 and 10k so not going to have big impact, but its still euros

in fairness, five grand will have a massive impact in most gaa clubs.

there's nothing stopping other county boards from applying for funding as well, assuming they have a framework for how to spend it in place.

yop

ArielAtom wrote: »

We can lobby them to throw 2m at hurling in Mayo if you like;)

We're waiting for the minister for fun to deliver

yop

rambojon wrote: »

any take on the u21s out tonight.. vs Carlow.. I see the spread is 25 points can this be correct at this grade.. seems huge to me !

Did you put money on that??? Some score!! Goes to show what money can do to.... and I see the poor neighbour Kildare lost too..

***I'm kidding the "what money can do"

gormdubhgorm

Just so everyone knows AIG stands for All Ireland Greats.

STB

ProudDUB wrote: »

One All Ireland in 28 years people. One. Un. Uno. A-haon.

What good were those all powerful, all conquering resources and money to us between 1983 and 2011?

Our Arnotts deal was always worth more money than any other counties, but we still won eff all with it for nearly 3 decades.

But feel free to carry on telling yourselves that money is all that matters, if it makes ye feel better.

I am surprised you got away with this in the thread for so long.

There are parts of the 90s I dont remember, but I do remember Dublin winning the All Ireland in 1995.

Jaysus.

Outside of that you are right though. 2 All Ireland in 3 years and all hell breaks loose. It must be the money. Any money that has been put into the UCD's of this world etc is available to all campus attendees from all counties.

Dublin has the same pressures as any other major city with a variety of competing sports to choose from. Largest population doesnt mean successs though. Look at Kilkenny, unbeatable for years in Hurling. Large sponsors are most likely to be assocaited with major populations though.

nice_guy80

STB wrote: »

I am surprised you got away with this in the thread for so long.

There are parts of the 90s I dont remember, but I do remember Dublin winning the All Ireland in 1995.

Jaysus.

Outside of that you are right though. 2 All Ireland in 3 years and all hell breaks loose. It must be the money. Any money that has been put into the UCD's of this world etc is available to all campus attendees from all counties.

Dublin has the same pressures as any other major city with a variety of competing sports to choose from. Largest population doesnt mean successs though. Look at Kilkenny, unbeatable for years in Hurling. Large sponsors are most likely to be assocaited with major populations though.

In Kilkenny nearly every child that goes to primary school plays hurling.
So in that sense, they have a huge pick.

Counties need help. Society and schools are changing down the countryside and people don't have as much time to volunteer and energy to organise activities for clubs and teachers generally don't want to organise all the stuff for school teams

Volunteer coaches can be helped by having full time coaches available to run/organise regional blitzes, leagues, coaching sessions etc leaving the volunteers in clubs time/energy to focus on the club

ebbsy

Look at all the cash that has been pumped into Dublin hurling......and they still have not won it. Totally delighted.

Dr. Bre

ebbsy wrote: »

Look at all the cash that has been pumped into Dublin hurling......and they still have not won it. Totally delighted.

don't care as long as they win the football...

smileyj1987

ebbsy wrote: »

Look at all the cash that has been pumped into Dublin hurling......and they still have not won it. Totally delighted.

At least the cash is being pumped into it . It's good to see a county actively promote both games . Some counties don't have the population to have two teams but the ones that do should be looking at the dubs as example . Treat the football and hurling as equals .

ProudDUB

STB wrote: »

I am surprised you got away with this in the thread for so long.

There are parts of the 90s I dont remember, but I do remember Dublin winning the All Ireland in 1995.

Jaysus.

Get away with what? The 28 years that I was referring to, are the 28 years between Dublin winning the AI in 1983 and winning it in 2011. In those intervening 28 years, Dublin won Sam one time - in 1995. There is nothing incorrect in that.

Winning the AI one time in nearly three decades, is pretty poor return on an investment, if money is supposed to be all and end all in success, no?

gormdubhgorm

This is only the wind up culchie merchant stuff.
They used to snigger at Dublin from 1996 to 2010. No mention of money then.
I have never seen a thread giving out about the amount of money Kilkenny get in the hurling why is that???

beggars_bush

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This is only the wind up culchie merchant stuff.
They used to snigger at Dublin from 1996 to 2010. No mention of money then.
I have never seen a thread giving out about the amount of money Kilkenny get in the hurling why is that???

How much money do they get?

STB

ProudDUB wrote: »

Get away with what? The 28 years that I was referring to, are the 28 years between Dublin winning the AI in 1983 and winning it in 2011. In those intervening 28 years, Dublin won Sam one time - in 1995. There is nothing incorrect in that.

Winning the AI one time in nearly three decades, is pretty poor return on an investment, if money is supposed to be all and end all in success, no?

Get away with the fact that maths is not your strong point ?

And NO that is not what you said. What you said was............

ProudDUB wrote: »

This Toyota car deal just replaces a similar one that we had with Renault for several years. No one raised a stink about that deal, when we won only one Sam Maguire Cup in 28 years. As long as we weren't winning, no one cared what we did or with who. Yet now that we have won Sam twice in two years, people are coming out of the woodwork to say that this car deal gives us yet another unfair advantage. A tad hypocrital, no?

We (I am a Dub by the way and have been at all these games I am talking about) won the AI in 1983, 1995, 2011. (lets forget 2013 for the purposes of this maths lesson)

That is three times between 1983 and 2011.

At no time was there a wait or intervening period of 28 YEARS for us to win an AI. In 28 years we won 3. In 30 we won 4.

Seriously.

gormdubhgorm

beggars_bush wrote: »

How much money do they get?

I don't know how much money they get in sponsorship but they hardly need it on league wins alone 8 in 12 years they are raking it in.
Kilkenny’s win in the League last season left them the biggest earner in the competition with net returns of €129,948.
The previous year they did even better, when their League take was a cool €142,457.
Add in the sponsorship and all-ireland wins they are not doing to bad.

Lemlin

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I don't know how much money they get in sponsorship but they hardly need it on league wins alone 8 in 12 years they are raking it in.
Kilkenny’s win in the League last season left them the biggest earner in the competition with net returns of €129,948.
The previous year they did even better, when their League take was a cool €142,457.
Add in the sponsorship and all-ireland wins they are not doing to bad.

Dublin get one million a year from the GAA before anything else is taken into consideration and you are pointing to Kilkenny who got a tenth of that from a League win!?

You're making a great argument against your opinion.

gormdubhgorm

Lemlin wrote: »

Dublin get one million a year from the GAA before anything else is taken into consideration and you are pointing to Kilkenny who got a tenth of that from a League win!?

You're making a great argument against your opinion.

Population of Dublin 1,804,156
Population of Kilkenny 95,419

It divides a lot differently.

gormdubhgorm

I was not allowed to post a link to related thread because I am a new user.
But I believe that there are two factors more important then any amount of money/sponsorship.
1 Management
2 Talented players

I went through Dublin's Football Results over the last 20 years

See below:
It's common knowledge that Mayo are the most consistent team in the country over the last 20years.

Money does not guarantee success at that rate Barcelona/Real would have won la liga last year.
Man United would have won the premiership.
Mcllroy would have won all the Golf majors.
When Dublin were sponsored by Arnotts from 88 on did it bring success? There was similar fuss over that...meath won leinster that year!

In the last 20 years Dublin won 3 senior all-irelands and losing one.

1994 Beaten by Down - lost final (Dublin were favourites)
1995 won (barely by a point)

Then Dublin could not get out of Leinster:
1996 Beaten by Meath
1997 Beaten by Meath
1998 Beaten by Kildare
1999 beaten by Meath
2000 beaten by Kildare


(Backdoor system introduced)

2001 Beaten by Kerry Q Finals following replay.

2002 Beaten by Armagh S Finals (despite been overwhelming favourites)

2003 Beaten by Laois ( despite been overwhelming favourites) (Dublin were beaten by Armagh in round 3 of the qualifiers)

2004 Beaten by Westmeath in the leinster Quarters! With Paddy Christie taking 45's!
(Dublin very lucky to be drawn with Leitrim, London, Longford and Roscommon in the Qualifiers!)
Dublin then well beaten by Kerry in the AI Q final.

Then the poor standard of leinster began which guaranteed dublin a quarter final place following leinster wins

---

2005 Beaten by Tyrone Q Finals following a replay
2006 Beaten by Mayo S Finals
2007 Beaten by Kerry S Finals
2008 Hammered by Tyrone Q Finals
2009 Hammered by Kerry Q Finals (startled earwigs)

---

2010 Beaten by Cork S Finals
(Lucky to get there having to through the back door following bad loss to meath in leinster semis - beat armagh by two points round three qualifiers and were lucky to be drawn with Louth round 4 qualifiers)

2011 won (10 minute come back against the run of play- Kerry better team - last gasp Dublin point)

2012 Beaten by Mayo S Final (Shock loss)

2013 won (by two points)

Look at these results did the money help? Look at teams that beat Dublin. Look at the nature of the wins and losses.

In reality what really helps Dublin now is the championship structure and the poor standard of leinster.
Ironically, when it suited the Media the poor standard of Leinster was used as the excuse why Dublin did not win Sam from 2005-2009. They were not been tested etc. But the reality was the players were not good enough.

To be a successful team there are two more important things before any amount of money.
1 Good Management
2 Talented Players

Hammer Archer

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This is only the wind up culchie merchant stuff.

Don't start this crap.
This is a legitimate topic for discussion and posting stuff like this doesn't help.

gormdubhgorm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Don't start this crap.
This is a legitimate topic for discussion and posting stuff like this doesn't help.

There are two inter-related threads about it two! One about Dublin GAA and their sponsors here and another one about Dublin being over funded! (maybe they should be amalgamated?)

In any case you can view my more sensible comments above.
But I do feel there is a lot of begrudgery from non-dubs fuelling this.

As a better funded Dublin leads to more interest in the GAA at the very least. This in turn leads to more interest are more money for other counties.
Also, I eat plenty of Tayto crisps so Meath are getting their fair share of money too!

Lemlin

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Population of Dublin 1,804,156
Population of Kilkenny 95,419

It divides a lot differently.

So GAA funds should be divided per capita?

beggars_bush

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was not allowed to post a link to related thread because I am a new user.
But I believe that there are two factors more important then any amount of money/sponsorship.
1 Management
2 Talented players

I went through Dublin's Football Results over the last 20 years

See below:
It's common knowledge that Mayo are the most consistent team in the country over the last 20years.

Money does not guarantee success at that rate Barcelona/Real would have won la liga last year.
Man United would have won the premiership.
Mcllroy would have won all the Golf majors.
When Dublin were sponsored by Arnotts from 88 on did it bring success? There was similar fuss over that...meath won leinster that year!

In the last 20 years Dublin won 3 senior all-irelands and losing one.

1994 Beaten by Down - lost final (Dublin were favourites)
1995 won (barely by a point)

Then Dublin could not get out of Leinster:
1996 Beaten by Meath
1997 Beaten by Meath
1998 Beaten by Kildare
1999 beaten by Meath
2000 beaten by Kildare


(Backdoor system introduced)

2001 Beaten by Kerry Q Finals following replay.

2002 Beaten by Armagh S Finals (despite been overwhelming favourites)

2003 Beaten by Laois ( despite been overwhelming favourites) (Dublin were beaten by Armagh in round 3 of the qualifiers)

2004 Beaten by Westmeath in the leinster Quarters! With Paddy Christie taking 45's!
(Dublin very lucky to be drawn with Leitrim, London, Longford and Roscommon in the Qualifiers!)
Dublin then well beaten by Kerry in the AI Q final.

Then the poor standard of leinster began which guaranteed dublin a quarter final place following leinster wins

---

2005 Beaten by Tyrone Q Finals following a replay
2006 Beaten by Mayo S Finals
2007 Beaten by Kerry S Finals
2008 Hammered by Tyrone Q Finals
2009 Hammered by Kerry Q Finals (startled earwigs)

---

2010 Beaten by Cork S Finals
(Lucky to get there having to through the back door following bad loss to meath in leinster semis - beat armagh by two points round three qualifiers and were lucky to be drawn with Louth round 4 qualifiers)

2011 won (10 minute come back against the run of play- Kerry better team - last gasp Dublin point)

2012 Beaten by Mayo S Final (Shock loss)

2013 won (by two points)

Look at these results did the money help? Look at teams that beat Dublin. Look at the nature of the wins and losses.

In reality what really helps Dublin now is the championship structure and the poor standard of leinster.
Ironically, when it suited the Media the poor standard of Leinster was used as the excuse why Dublin did not win Sam from 2005-2009. They were not been tested etc. But the reality was the players were not good enough.

To be a successful team there are two more important things before any amount of money.
1 Good Management
2 Talented Players

Dublin have been able fund huge backroom teams with sports science, strength and conditioning, specialist coaches and stats analysis in the past few years from minor to senior which has made a huge difference

gormdubhgorm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Dublin have been able fund huge backroom teams with sports science, strength and conditioning, specialist coaches and stats analysis in the past few years from minor to senior which has made a huge difference

Sure all the stronger counties are on to that now. Look at Tyrone with its brand new facilities
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/24291734

Connacht GAA has a centre of excellence for strength and conditioning.
http://coaching.connacht.gaa.ie/home/club-location

Even monaghan had this fella:
http://ie.linkedin.com/pub/ross-corbett/49/511/579

beggars_bush

I never mentioned facilities.