Landlord changed locks, what can I do?

V.W.L 11

My ex landlord is a current fine gael city councillor,i ended up owing money but left because the condition of the property was in a worse state than the country's finances!

irishmover

rubberdiddies wrote: »

it's a little more complex in Australia and different in different territories, but yes for example in New South Wales if a tenant is 2 weeks in arrears, a LL can give them 2 weeks notice.

Personally I believe a little more leeway should be given, however the current situation here in Ireland is unacceptable where realistically a tenant can squat rent free for months on end of they so desire with zero repercussions.

I was a landlord a few years ago by way of being a joint beneficiary of a house. To the poster who said that being a landlord was a business, it certainly wasn't for me and we sold up as soon as was feasible. I would not like to be one again as I feel that landlords have no real rights.

I was a tenant much longer than I was a landlord over the years though.
I was the type of person that would have been mortified if the rent was even 1 day late. If I was a month or 6 weeks late I would have had no business in the houses I was in.

The regulations have gone way too far in favour of tenants in my opinion. There needs to be a review to ensure that problem tenants and tenants that do not pay their rent, can be removed as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, there is no sign of that happening.

I almost bought a house last year in Ireland as an investment property with the plan to rent it out to pay for the mortgage. I'm kinda glad I didn't reading this thread.

Anyway, I think something like this needs to happen:

If the tenant doesn't move out, the lessor/agent can lodge an urgent application directly with the Tribunal for an order to make them leave called a Warrant of possession.

2 weeks is a very short time. I wasn't agreeing with it. I'd say a month would probably be the most fair.

6 weeks without paying rent, for me that person had no right to live in that house. Whether the Irish laws say they do or not.

djimi

rubberdiddies wrote: »

it's a little more complex in Australia and different in different territories, but yes for example in New South Wales if a tenant is 2 weeks in arrears, a LL can give them 2 weeks notice.

Personally I believe a little more leeway should be given, however the current situation here in Ireland is unacceptable where realistically a tenant can squat rent free for months on end of they so desire with zero repercussions.

And what happens in Australia after the 2 weeks? Because the issue in Ireland isnt so much the notice period for arrears, its more to do with the fact that if the tenant sticks two fingers up to the landlord and refuses to move then it becomes a long and arduous task to get them out of the property.

the_syco

djimi wrote: »

So in this case, if the tenant were to be awarded damages and the landlord refuses to pay then the tenant would take them to the courts, who would then be able to legally enforce the payment.

I think the tenant/landlord only has to get a sheriff involved?

The Spider

So basically what can be taken from this thread is, never ever take on tenants with rent allowance, way more hassle than it's worth and judging by some of the comments here, either have a chip on their shoulder, or feel entitled, and are more than likely to try and batten down the hatches without paying rent for a long time.

Always rent to professionals in very good jobs, and look for at least two months deposit as well as the first months rent. Always be aware that professionals are less likely to go to court and have a conviction, if they lose their job will be more likely to get a new job quickly or leave to another jurisdiction, freeing up the property.

Ok, and this is why there is less and less rent allowance accepted places to rent, looks like the government are going to have to start providing social housing as private individuals are less inclined to put up with this behaviour.

Cheers have to relet soon, sometimes it's good to see the mindset and know what you should avoid.

Gatling

The Spider wrote: »

So basically what can be taken from this thread is, never ever take on tenants with rent allowance, way more hassle than it's worth and judging by some of the comments here, either have a chip on their shoulder, or feel entitled, and are more than likely to try and batten down the hatches without paying rent for a long time.

Always rent to professionals in very good jobs, and look for at least two months deposit as well as the first months rent. Always be aware that professionals are less likely to go to court and have a conviction, if they lose their job will be more likely to get a new job quickly or leave to another jurisdiction, freeing up the property.

Ok, and this is why there is less and less rent allowance accepted places to rent, looks like the government are going to have to start providing social housing as private individuals are less inclined to put up with this behaviour.

Cheers have to relet soon, sometimes it's good to see the mindset and know what you should avoid.

Don't forget always wear a bullet proof vest when dealing with a landlord

rubberdiddies

djimi wrote: »

And what happens in Australia after the 2 weeks? Because the issue in Ireland isnt so much the notice period for arrears, its more to do with the fact that if the tenant sticks two fingers up to the landlord and refuses to move then it becomes a long and arduous task to get them out of the property.

thats my point. the system is too much in favour of tenants and needs to be overhauled to be fairer

paul71

xxx

Gatling

rubberdiddies wrote: »

thats my point. the system is too much in favour of tenants and needs to be overhauled to be fairer

I take it nobody seen prime time last night ,

Threshold want better and stonger rights for tenants

D3PO

Gatling wrote: »

I take it nobody seen prime time last night ,

Threshold want better and stonger rights for tenants

there a quango that wouldnt need to exist if we had proper structures in place in this country for renting. Hardly surprising that they took their vested agenda and ran with it .....

djimi

rubberdiddies wrote: »

thats my point. the system is too much in favour of tenants and needs to be overhauled to be fairer

The problem is not really that the system is in favour of either side; the problem is that the system is just painfully slow and inefficient. Be it a landlord looking to evict a non-paying tenant, or a tenant looking to recover a stolen deposit, the PRTB makes it a god awful process for both sides. Fix the PRTB so that cases are heard swiftly and ruling handed down in a timely fashion and the whole system starts to become fairer for both sides.

garhjw

djimi wrote: »

The problem is not really that the system is in favour of either side; the problem is that the system is just painfully slow and inefficient. Be it a landlord looking to evict a non-paying tenant, or a tenant looking to recover a stolen deposit, the PRTB makes it a god awful process for both sides. Fix the PRTB so that cases are heard swiftly and ruling handed down in a timely fashion and the whole system starts to become fairer for both sides.

Totally agree. If either party has a grievance, non-payment of rent, withholding deposit, etc, there should be a process to resolve within a reasonable time period.

Dr Turk Turkelton

The Spider wrote: »

So basically what can be taken from this thread is, never ever take on tenants with rent allowance, way more hassle than it's worth and judging by some of the comments here, either have a chip on their shoulder, or feel entitled, and are more than likely to try and batten down the hatches without paying rent for a long time.

Always rent to professionals in very good jobs, and look for at least two months deposit as well as the first months rent. Always be aware that professionals are less likely to go to court and have a conviction, if they lose their job will be more likely to get a new job quickly or leave to another jurisdiction, freeing up the property.

Ok, and this is why there is less and less rent allowance accepted places to rent, looks like the government are going to have to start providing social housing as private individuals are less inclined to put up with this behaviour.

Cheers have to relet soon, sometimes it's good to see the mindset and know what you should avoid.

What I took from it was that the best option with a bad tenant is to evict them.
From reading it would seem that "if" they can afford a solicitor it could be 3 years before you have to give them a penny from the day you evict them.

If you go the PRTB route yourself it could take a year to get them out.

So on one hand you might have to pay a fine in 3 years but you have a performing tenant in your property=36 months rent.
But if you try to do it legally you could have a non-performing tenant for 12 months=no rent plus probably cost a fortune to fix up after them.

I think for a landlord an eviction is the way forward.

mdebets

djimi wrote: »

The problem is not really that the system is in favour of either side; the problem is that the system is just painfully slow and inefficient. Be it a landlord looking to evict a non-paying tenant, or a tenant looking to recover a stolen deposit, the PRTB makes it a god awful process for both sides. Fix the PRTB so that cases are heard swiftly and ruling handed down in a timely fashion and the whole system starts to become fairer for both sides.

The long drawn-out process is just one side of the problem. The other is that the system really is in favour of the landlord.

If you look at the above mentioned Australian system, you have also to notice, that they have a similar rules if the landlord doesn't fulfill his responsibilities (ie. carrying out repairs). Here and here are rules with timesframes the landlord has to follow in regards of repairs and what a tenant can do, if the landlord doesn't comply.

In Ireland, there are only clear rules and timeframes, where the tenant is concerned (e.g. x weeks of no rent, notice of x weeks, no payment, start of eviction). For the landlord, there are only wage rules (has to repair, but not how and what timeframe). So the landlord can drag this out as long as he wants with excuses (no money, no tradesman available to do the job on short notice, etc.), without the tenant having any clear rights of how to speed the progress up.

djimi

mdebets wrote: »

In Ireland, there are only clear rules and timeframes, where the tenant is concerned (e.g. x weeks of no rent, notice of x weeks, no payment, start of eviction). For the landlord, there are only wage rules (has to repair, but not how and what timeframe). So the landlord can drag this out as long as he wants with excuses (no money, no tradesman available to do the job on short notice, etc.), without the tenant having any clear rights of how to speed the progress up.

The problem with legal time frames on repair work is that there will be times where even with the best will in the world it will be impossible to fix an issue in X number of days. Parts arent always readily available, tradesmen must be booked etc. Its not that easy to legislate for this, so you get a system like we have, where the landlord must act in a "timely fashion" or however it is worded. Its a nice idea in theory to legislate a time frame like in those links, but in reality I cant see them ever being more than a guide.

The_Conductor

mdebets wrote: »

The long drawn-out process is just one side of the problem. The other is that the system really is in favour of the landlord.

If you look at the above mentioned Australian system, you have also to notice, that they have a similar rules if the landlord doesn't fulfill his responsibilities (ie. carrying out repairs). Here and here are rules with timesframes the landlord has to follow in regards of repairs and what a tenant can do, if the landlord doesn't comply.

In Ireland, there are only clear rules and timeframes, where the tenant is concerned (e.g. x weeks of no rent, notice of x weeks, no payment, start of eviction). For the landlord, there are only wage rules (has to repair, but not how and what timeframe). So the landlord can drag this out as long as he wants with excuses (no money, no tradesman available to do the job on short notice, etc.), without the tenant having any clear rights of how to speed the progress up.

I think thats more a reflection of the manner in which we acquired thousands of landlords with one or perhaps 2 properties. They don't know their obligations or rights (or those of their tenants). They do get screwed over by tradespeople- because they can't negotiate better rates, given their limited buying power.

If all of these people were forced to employ an agent to act on their behalf, and a charter of rights (for both parties) spelt out- life would be a whole lot easier for everyone.

At the moment- it can take up to 3 years to legally evict a non-paying tenant. Or- if a tenant destroys a property (which happens far more often than we care to admit)- its not worth a landlord's while registering the damage with the PRTB etc- as they're never going to get recompense, and its going to cost them time and money simply to follow their complaint through- so people don't bother.

I can hand over heart say that I don't know a single landlord who has been letting property for over 10 years- who hasn't encountered significant trouble- normally incurring a loss of over 10k, who has managed to chase the tenant for recompense.

You could go down the Australian or even the English route- and register judgements against tenants- as used happen before the PRTB was setup- but that achieved sweet damn all too.......

We need a fundamental charter of rights for tenants. We need the ability to evict tenants who fail to pay their rent or breach their obligations, in a timely manner. We need an independent broker to whom all deposits would be lodged. We need to accept that 1 month's deposit is an anachronism. We need to provide the right to landlords to let properties unfurnished. We need to provide for long term tenancies- without landlord's loosing legal rights over their properties.

The whole sector is a mess- even agencies like Threshold need to be abolished- the amount of misinformation they peddle is startling- or perhaps I should rephrase that- the information being attributed to Threshold on a daily basis in this forum is bewildering in its randomness- some of it is good advice- but you can't rely on receiving accurate information from them.

mdebets

djimi wrote: »

The problem with legal time frames on repair work is that there will be times where even with the best will in the world it will be impossible to fix an issue in X number of days. Parts arent always readily available, tradesmen must be booked etc. Its not that easy to legislate for this, so you get a system like we have, where the landlord must act in a "timely fashion" or however it is worded. Its a nice idea in theory to legislate a time frame like in those links, but in reality I cant see them ever being more than a guide.

Of course it's possible to fix important issues within a certain time frame, if the landlord is willing to and makes plans and builds a relationship with the tradesman before the actual event happens (obviously much easier, if you own more than one appartment, which is another point why a large number of one-appartment landlords are not a goof idea).
In Ireland, I'm renting with the same landlord for over 10 years and he still has the same repair company as at the beginning and I never had to wait for a non essential repair for more than a week.
Do you really think it would be ok for a landlord to call a tenant after a week and say 'Sorry for the flooded kitchen for the last week, but I really couldn't find a plumber to fix the broken water mains since you called me, but he promised me to come by your place next week. Oh, and please don't forget that you have to pay your rent tomorrow in full."

dmrules

Hi, just to let you know that after contacting Treshold and them calling LL,
situation is more clear now... LL said that he changed locks because it was raining that night and he thought that the roof is leaking and he was afraid of the damage to the inside of the house????!!!... then he told them that he will give them a key, when they met with him he gave them two letters:28 days notice to leave the property and 14 days to pay the arrears...
so they are back in the house thats the main thing...
thanks all for all the advises

p.s- as I did not know yesterday, they renting the house through agency...

Gatling

And the guns and bullets???

dmrules

Gatling wrote: »

And the guns and bullets???

Maybe I didn't explain this properly, the gun and bullet incident happen earlier in the tenancy...not in the last two days...

TJ Mackie

Sh!t outcome.

No break-in, no shootout, a misunderstanding and that fvcking dog is still running around like he owns the place.

God dammit OP.

dmrules

TJ Mackie wrote: »

Sh!t outcome.

No break-in, no shootout, a misunderstanding and that fvcking dog is still running around like he owns the place.

God dammit OP.

Don't shoot the messenger...TJ
I know...not a drama you've expected to be but still they were shaken by the whole situation...

cerastes

Maybe the fright will make them pay up

dmrules

They were always paying on time...just the SW situation made them short with money...

housetypeb

The landlord seems to have fcuked up again, first comes the notice of arrears,giving the tenants 14 days to pay the outstanding rent-then the notice to evict can be delivered after that time if rent has still not been paid, can't deliver both at the same time.
One must follow procedure,old chap.

MouseTail

dmrules wrote: »

They were always paying on time...just the SW situation made them short with money...

No they weren't, if they were this mess wouldn't have happened.

discombobulate

MouseTail wrote: »

No they weren't, if they were this mess wouldn't have happened.

Plus the gun and bullet incident as he said was earlier in the tenancy when presumably they were also late!

Arbiter of Good Taste

Did the gun incident actually happen? Surely someone in their right mind would not want to live somewhere where the landlord has threatened them with a gun?

djimi

housetypeb wrote: »

The landlord seems to have fcuked up again, first comes the notice of arrears,giving the tenants 14 days to pay the outstanding rent-then the notice to evict can be delivered after that time if rent has still not been paid, can't deliver both at the same time.
One must follow procedure,old chap.

Indeed. 14 day notice of arrears is valid (assuming it is worded correctly, of which there is no guarantee given what we have been told); 28 notice of termination is not, and valid notice of termination cannot be issued until the 14 days passes without the arrears being cleared. If the arrears are cleared during the 14 days then the matter is closed and no further action can be taken.

itsirishfarmer

go back in change the locks

its an illegal eviction