Auctioneers back to their old ways

Taraharry

Hi folks
Just wondering if anyone has encountered "issues " with their auctioneers.
We have been trying to buy a house in Dublin but we keep being outbid but on a number of occasions when the house price went up on the property register - it was sold for less than we offered.
We have mortgage approval - cash deposit etc. Everything is above board. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue ?!
I realise the market is just crazy in Dublin but it is getting really infuriating.
Thanks
Tara

seb65

Taraharry wrote: »

Hi folks
Just wondering if anyone has encountered "issues " with their auctioneers.
We have been trying to buy a house in Dublin but we keep being outbid but on a number of occasions when the house price went up on the property register - it was sold for less than we offered.
We have mortgage approval - cash deposit etc. Everything is above board. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue ?!
I realise the market is just crazy in Dublin but it is getting really infuriating.
Thanks
Tara

What is your procedure for bidding? Do you bid, get outbid (as told by the EA) and walk away? If you do walk away, does the EA ever contact you to try and engage again on a property deal?


Next time, give your bid to the EA and also directly to the property owner.

OMD

Taraharry wrote: »

Hi folks
Just wondering if anyone has encountered "issues " with their auctioneers.
We have been trying to buy a house in Dublin but we keep being outbid but on a number of occasions when the house price went up on the property register - it was sold for less than we offered.
We have mortgage approval - cash deposit etc. Everything is above board. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue ?!
I realise the market is just crazy in Dublin but it is getting really infuriating.
Thanks
Tara

Highest bid doesn't always get the property. Usually cash buyers are most favoured followed by first time buyers and finally by those who have to sell.
Messing around during the bidding process saying things like "this offer is good for one week only" puts sellers off. They are scared you will lower your offer as contracts are close to being signed when the house has been off the market a few weeks.

lau1247

seb65 wrote: »

Next time, give your bid to the EA and also directly to the property owner.

Genuine question, do you ever get to submit bid to property owner?? I thought it all goes through the Estate Agent..

amacca

lau1247 wrote: »

Genuine question, do you ever get to submit bid to property owner?? I thought it all goes through the Estate Agent..

I'd like to know this too as I'm deeply suspicious of the whole process

I like an auction where bids are out in the open and the best bid usually wins

Interested in a property which I bid on about 6months ago, was told at the time it was sale agreed…..still has a for sale sign on it…..same horse**** after a number of subsequent enquiries, I think its being held for a crony or not really for sale for some reason.

seb65

I would go directly to the property owner if I thought something odd was going on, not otherwise.

delthedriver

amacca wrote: »

I'd like to know this too as I'm deeply suspicious of the whole process

I like an auction where bids are out in the open and the best bid usually wins

Interested in a property which I bid on about 6months ago, was told at the time it was sale agreed…..still has a for sale sign on it…..same horse**** after a number of subsequent enquiries, I think its being held for a crony or not really for sale for some reason.

Perhaps owner is simply testing the market?

delthedriver

Taraharry wrote: »

Hi folks
Just wondering if anyone has encountered "issues " with their auctioneers.
We have been trying to buy a house in Dublin but we keep being outbid but on a number of occasions when the house price went up on the property register - it was sold for less than we offered.
We have mortgage approval - cash deposit etc. Everything is above board. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue ?!
I realise the market is just crazy in Dublin but it is getting really infuriating.
Thanks
Tara

Can leopards change their spots?

TheDriver

some times the ppr price has contents taken out of the final figure

caew

You can submit a bid directly to a an owner. I and one other poster mentioned contacting the owner directly in a previous post after becoming frustrated with the auctioneer. Both of us found that the auctioneer was telling mistruths.

L1011

TheDriver wrote: »

some times the ppr price has contents taken out of the final figure

That has effectively completely ended since stamp duty was reduced to 1% below 1M. No point.

Taraharry

Thanks for your replies. No, we have never contacted he owners directly - we always just went through the estate agents. We're not messing around with the offers as any house we bid on we have really wanted. We met another couple at a house viewing lately that said the same thing happened to them. That they had bid on a few houses that went for below the asking price.
It could be a case of the cash buyers getting first preference.
I just don't trust auctioneers ...at all ! Maybe they can sense it off me

Dr Turk Turkelton

MYOB wrote: »

That has effectively completely ended since stamp duty was reduced to 1% below 1M. No point.

What about for future property tax declarations?

caew

Taraharry wrote: »

Thanks for your replies. No, we have never contacted he owners directly - we always just went through the estate agents. We're not messing around with the offers as any house we bid on we have really wanted. We met another couple at a house viewing lately that said the same thing happened to them. That they had bid on a few houses that went for below the asking price.
It could be a case of the cash buyers getting first preference.
I just don't trust auctioneers ...at all ! Maybe they can sense it off me

I don't see why a seller would take less money because the buyer is a cash buyer. A mortgage only takes 7 days for aproval and in the context of the length of time it takes for the conveyancing to be done it doesn't delay a sale. The auctioneer should ask if you are mortgage approved and if you are then you are just as safe as the cash buyer.

lau1247

caew wrote: »

I don't see why a seller would take less money because the buyer is a cash buyer. A mortgage only takes 7 days for aproval and in the context of the length of time it takes for the conveyancing to be done it doesn't delay a sale. The auctioneer should ask if you are mortgage approved and if you are then you are just as safe as the cash buyer.

Yeah i agree, surely the seller would like to get as much for their property as possible. Either way they are getting the money in the grand scheme of things.

It makes no sense other than possible hassle with time wasters who didn't have their paperwork fully ready to go

Taraharry

The cynic in me thinks they are selling them to people they know.
But it has happened to us twice! So maybe that's too much of a coincidence

BeatNikDub

A bad survey may have meant the price the price was re-negotiated. Or the vendor may have ended up selling to relative. There can be a few reasons.

Taraharry

Thanks for all the replies. We'll keep battling on

amacca

delthedriver wrote: »

Perhaps owner is simply testing the market?

Perhaps they could find a way to do what without testing my patience as well

The_Conductor

If you genuinely think the auctioneer or agent is playing games- complain.
The Property Services Regulator licenses all estate agents/auctioneers/property managers etc in the country- and is perceived to deal with complaints in a fair manner.

Link here

amacca

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you genuinely think the auctioneer or agent is playing games- complain.
The Property Services Regulator licenses all estate agents/auctioneers/property managers etc in the country- and is perceived to deal with complaints in a fair manner.

Link here

Had a quick scan there…..so in the event I complain that a property for sale "seems" to have been deliberately called sale agreed on a number of occasions when I "think" its not……would the regulator go straight to auctioneer in question and say Mr X claims you lied about that property being sale agreed to keep it for one of your cronies, whats the story

I'd have (and I think they would be legitimate) concerns that said Influential auctioneer with many contacts then proceeds to either a) sell the property to me and make life very difficult for me in the future or b) get some flimsy/maybe truthful reason for whats occurring and not sell it to me + make life very difficult for me (the whinging troublemaker) in the future

delthedriver

amacca wrote: »

Perhaps they could find a way to do what without testing my patience as well

Fair comment .


However ,if you were the owner of the property in question and considering selling the property in the current market, what would you do?

delthedriver

amacca wrote: »

Had a quick scan there…..so in the event I complain that a property for sale "seems" to have been deliberately called sale agreed on a number of occasions when I "think" its not……would the regulator go straight to auctioneer in question and say Mr X claims you lied about that property being sale agreed to keep it for one of your cronies, whats the story

I'd have (and I think they would be legitimate) concerns that said Influential auctioneer with many contacts then proceeds to either a) sell the property to me and make life very difficult for me in the future or b) get some flimsy/maybe truthful reason for whats occurring and not sell it to me + make life very difficult for me (the whinging troublemaker) in the future

Have you considered contacting the vendor directly?

Marchbride

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you genuinely think the auctioneer or agent is playing games- complain.
The Property Services Regulator licenses all estate agents/auctioneers/property managers etc in the country- and is perceived to deal with complaints in a fair manner.

Link here

Do they also take complaints when the banks selling houses are acting like the mafia??

L1011

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

What about for future property tax declarations?

Considering prices have started rising again in many areas and the saving before the revaluation date would be significantly less than the penalty if caught out; I'm still pretty confident it doesn't happen. If a house sells for less than another offer its either because they wanted a quicker sale or they were gazundered by the buyer.

petitpois

I'm in the process of trying to buy a house for the past 10 months, first time buyer with a solid deposit and all the paper work ready to go. I've seen the same thing as the OP, two houses i bid on last year subsequently sold for less than what I'd offered.
I'm deeply suspicious of the whole process. Just this week I bid on a house and the agent rang me to tell me someone had come in 10k over my offer (which was almost asking price). I've no choice but to take the agents word for it, i know that's how it works, but i have no reason to trust their word given my experience the past 10 months!
Last year I contacted the property owner directly but to no avail, they obviously wanted to follow the 'correct process' which was fair enough.

delthedriver

Marchbride wrote: »

Do they also take complaints when the banks selling houses are acting like the mafia??

Applies to Estate Agents, Letting Agents....................not Banks

amacca

delthedriver wrote: »

Fair comment .


However ,if you were the owner of the property in question and considering selling the property in the current market, what would you do?


Have you considered contacting the vendor directly?

I like to think I would think long and hard about whether I wanted to sell the property or not taking as many factors as possible into account (gauging factors such as likely sale price on the basis of what similar properties are going for/asking prices in the area and then subtract what i consider reasonable) then if I decided to put it up for sale it would be with the intention of getting the maximum sale price possible and only selling at a price equal to over a reserve I was prepared to accept.

(There might be limited circumstances where I would not go for max price possible or would try get alternative buyer if it was feasible such as a known scumbag wants to move in and I have family/neighbours/friends next door etc)

What I'd like to think I wouldn't do is dick around humming and hawing stringing a buyer along unless of course the offers received were too low or use people genuinely trying to conduct a business transaction to gauge the market and waste their time………I think its basically bad manners to go into a negotiation not really knowing what you want and wasting peoples time or deliberately wasting peoples time just to see who is interested, the same people engaged in crap like that wouldn't like it if I showed up at breakfast to make my opinions on black forest gateaux known to them while they were trying to get to work……however I do live in the real world and know that its not always possible but to me there does seem to be an awful lot of slobbering out there.

I have considered contacting the vendor directly and I think I might but I'm probably not going to get their contact details from auctioneer in question or if i do it gives him a heads up…….presume I can find out the details of the owner of the property from the land registry offices or something along those lines?

delthedriver

amacca wrote: »

I like to think I would think long and hard about whether I wanted to sell the property or not taking as many factors as possible into account (gauging factors such as likely sale price on the basis of what similar properties are going for/asking prices in the area and then subtract what i consider reasonable) then if I decided to put it up for sale it would be with the intention of getting the maximum sale price possible and only selling at a price equal to over a reserve I was prepared to accept.

(There might be limited circumstances where I would not go for max price possible or would try get alternative buyer if it was feasible such as a known scumbag wants to move in and I have family/neighbours/friends next door etc)

What I'd like to think I wouldn't do is dick around humming and hawing stringing a buyer along unless of course the offers received were too low or use people genuinely trying to conduct a business transaction to gauge the market and waste their time………I think its basically bad manners to go into a negotiation not really knowing what you want and wasting peoples time or deliberately wasting peoples time just to see who is interested, the same people engaged in crap like that wouldn't like it if I showed up at breakfast to make my opinions on black forest gateaux known to them while they were trying to get to work……however I do live in the real world and know that its not always possible but to me there does seem to be an awful lot of slobbering out there.

I have considered contacting the vendor directly and I think I might but I'm probably not going to get their contact details from auctioneer in question or if i do it gives him a heads up…….presume I can find out the details of the owner of the property from the land registry offices or something along those lines?

Have you considered doing a mail drop in the area? It may be worth dropping a few leaflets in the letterbox of other neighbouring houses asking them to contact you if they are considering selling their property.
It may flush out potential vendors who could also save the cost of engaging an Estate Agent and numerous appointments, people tramping through their house. I am guessing you are interested in buying in a specific location.
Time to be proactive than reactive?

amacca

delthedriver wrote: »

Have you considered doing a mail drop in the area? It may be worth dropping a few leaflets in the letterbox of other neighbouring houses asking them to contact you if they are considering selling their property.
It may flush out potential vendors who could also save the cost of engaging an Estate Agent and numerous appointments, people tramping through their house. I am guessing you are interested in buying in a specific location.
Time to be proactive than reactive?

Other properties in the area don't really interest me. I'm not really looking for a family home in an estate with lots of similar properties/alternatives all around. This is a specific property in the area with a number of things going for it that interest me that neighbouring properties just don't have….end of terrace there is only one terrace, quite a lot of space out back as its on the end with potential access from the side for parking, there isn't even a back road to access the other houses, very much a fixer upper so not a large immediate investment upfront, potential as commercial or residential if you really wanted to live in it etc etc

I have no problem with it selling for more than I'm prepared to give (how could I have anyway..thats life:) ) I do not like the idea of bids or interest not being passed on because of cronyism however…….I am aware that might be just unfounded suspicion on my part however the whole nature of the bidding process pisses me off big time……….would love if legitimate bids could be out in the open and any shenanigans discouraged by severe penalties……basically there must be a better more transparent way so the highest bidder does always win and not the most powerful and influential even if they are not willing to pay…..but I suppose thats naive of me and not the way the world really works.

delthedriver

amacca wrote: »

Other properties in the area don't really interest me. I'm not really looking for a family home in an estate with lots of similar properties/alternatives all around. This is a specific property in the area with a number of things going for it that interest me that neighbouring properties just don't have….end of terrace there is only one terrace, quite a lot of space out back as its on the end with potential access from the side for parking, there isn't even a back road to access the other houses, very much a fixer upper so not a large immediate investment upfront, potential as commercial or residential if you really wanted to live in it etc etc

I have no problem with it selling for more than I'm prepared to give (how could I have anyway..thats life:) ) I do not like the idea of bids or interest not being passed on because of cronyism however…….I am aware that might be just unfounded suspicion on my part however the whole nature of the bidding process pisses me off big time……….would love if legitimate bids could be out in the open and any shenanigans discouraged by severe penalties……basically there must be a better more transparent way so the highest bidder does always win and not the most powerful and influential even if they are not willing to pay…..but I suppose thats naive of me and not the way the world really works.

The house appears to be quite unique


"This is a specific property in the area with a number of things going for it that interest me that neighbouring properties just don't have….end of terrace there is only one terrace, quite a lot of space out back as its on the end with potential access from the side for parking, there isn't even a back road to access the other houses, very much a fixer upper so not a large immediate investment upfront, potential as commercial or residential if you really wanted to live in it etc etc"


Surely the vendor has also identified its unique features too and is therefore hanging out for the best price possible . To be fair the vendor cannot benchmark the true value of the property without testing the market.


Sure your frustrations are understandable, however the system currently in place is the only system . There is a lot to be said for introducing the Scottish system of submitting sealed bids before a certain date.

amacca

delthedriver wrote: »

The house appears to be quite unique

Its the ideal product for me imo…..but I'm sure other bidders have also spotted its potential. All I would like is to be sure its a fair fight and some vendor(s) somewhere are not having the wool pulled over their eyes bye another bidder and auctioneer working together (perhaps thats not happening at all in fairness) and the best bid wins rather than the best crony

delthedriver wrote: »

Surely the vendor has also identified its unique features too and is therefore hanging out for the best price possible . To be fair the vendor cannot benchmark the true value of the property without testing the market.

He/she wouldn't know the best price possible if bids were being turned away due to false declarations of sale agreed…..some bidders might end their interest there and then on the understanding the property was off the market

delthedriver wrote: »

Sure your frustrations are understandable, however the system currently in place is the only system . There is a lot to be said for introducing the Scottish system of submitting sealed bids before a certain date.

Agreed…there is just too much scope for shenanigans with the way we do things imo

delthedriver

amacca wrote: »

Its the ideal product for me imo…..but I'm sure other bidders have also spotted its potential. All I would like is to be sure its a fair fight and some vendor(s) somewhere are not having the wool pulled over their eyes bye another bidder and auctioneer working together (perhaps thats not happening at all in fairness) and the best bid wins rather than the best crony



He/she wouldn't know the best price possible if bids were being turned away due to false declarations of sale agreed…..some bidders might end their interest there and then on the understanding the property was off the market




Agreed…there is just too much scope for shenanigans with the way we do things imo

Why not arrange a meeting between you, the Vendor and Agent and put your best deal forward. If this is the property you really want you have to go for it. " If it is to be it is up to me" ! Go for it, no much point in worrying about what other parties are doing.


Make your presentation to the Vendor and Agent.


Your best price
How quickly you can move on this offer, complete deal.
Demonstrate that you are not subject to sale of your own property etc.
There is more than one way to skin a cat!
If this is the property you have set your heart on you need to think outside the box.

Steven81

Offer less and a bit of cash to someone that is NAMAD and they are getting something otherwise the bank is getting it.

iguana

Steven81 wrote: »

Offer less and a bit of cash to someone that is NAMAD and they are getting something otherwise the bank is getting it.

1. Wouldn't that be illegal?

2. Don't you reduce the odds of the bank discharging the loan on the property as they will be getting less?

delthedriver

iguana wrote: »

1. Wouldn't that be illegal?

2. Don't you reduce the odds of the bank discharging the loan on the property as they will be getting less?

Correct on both counts.

delthedriver

I spoke with a couple of Auctioneers over last few days.


Interestingly an Auctioneer or Estate Agent can not post Sale Agreed on a property until the contract is signed.


Instead they may advise that a deposit has been taken. I have noticed this on a number of websites , interested parties may still lodge their interest in case the property does not become Sale Agreed .