Waterford to London Route

b757

Does anyone seem to have a link for the planning permission? I can't seem to find it online.

wellboytoo

fricatus wrote: »

So, has the planning permission been lodged?

As you see above yes and I spoke to my contact who assures me "done and dusted"

fricatus

wellboytoo wrote: »

As you see above yes and I spoke to my contact who assures me "done and dusted"

Did they fly the brown envelope to the relevant councillor's house? :P

hardybuck

Can anyone outline the ambitions behind this extension? What real benefits should it offer the airport?

fricatus

hardybuck wrote: »

Can anyone outline the ambitions behind this extension? What real benefits should it offer the airport?

Ability to cater for larger planes, which means that it can service a wider range of carriers basically.

Once Kerry upgraded its runway, it was able to cater for Ryanair, and now it has a good range of flights to places like Stansted and even as far away as Frankfurt.

That's all we need TBH. We're not Dubai! London, Birmingham, Manchester, then maybe Paris, Amsterdam and somewhere in Germany. It's a realistic target based on the experiences of Knock and Kerry, and it would be enough to look after the demand that would be there in the SE.

hardybuck

fricatus wrote: »

Ability to cater for larger planes, which means that it can service a wider range of carriers basically.

Once Kerry upgraded its runway, it was able to cater for Ryanair, and now it has a good range of flights to places like Stansted and even as far away as Frankfurt.

That's all we need TBH. We're not Dubai! London, Birmingham, Manchester, then maybe Paris, Amsterdam and somewhere in Germany. It's a realistic target based on the experiences of Knock and Kerry, and it would be enough to look after the demand that would be there in the SE.

And will this proposed extension bring Waterford into line with the likes of Kerry, Knock etc.?

Yeah, if you had a wishlist of three additional routes in the morning, you'd probably be looking for London, Amsterdam and probably a toss up between Frankfurt and Paris.

fricatus

hardybuck wrote: »

And will this proposed extension bring Waterford into line with the likes of Kerry, Knock etc.?

The runway would be 1808m, whereas Knock is 2340m and Kerry is 2012m.

I read somewhere that Ryanair require 1850m for the 737-800. Can anyone clarify this? Any idea why this wouldn't be the target if there's work going on?

O Riain

fricatus wrote: »

The runway would be 1808m, whereas Knock is 2340m and Kerry is 2012m.

I read somewhere that Ryanair require 1850m for the 737-800. Can anyone clarify this? Any idea why this wouldn't be the target if there's work going on?

Because this is Ireland we are in. Here the standard is "if you are going to do something, make sure you don't do it right".

hardybuck

fricatus wrote: »

The runway would be 1808m, whereas Knock is 2340m and Kerry is 2012m.

I read somewhere that Ryanair require 1850m for the 737-800. Can anyone clarify this? Any idea why this wouldn't be the target if there's work going on?

Yeah it seems from the outside looking in to be a bit of a missed opportunity?

I think €1.25m is the cost of this job? Not a huge pile of money. You'd expect that if the extra length was linked to attracting the extra carriers and routes, they could make a business case to secure funds to pay for that.

Teebor15

O Riain wrote: »

Because this is Ireland we are in. Here the standard is "if you are going to do something, make sure you don't do it right".

What do you know about this subject? You must have some expertise in this area to be able to comment like that? What way would you go about completing this project?

wellboytoo

hardybuck wrote: »

Yeah it seems from the outside looking in to be a bit of a missed opportunity?

I think €1.25m is the cost of this job? Not a huge pile of money. You'd expect that if the extra length was linked to attracting the extra carriers and routes, they could make a business case to secure funds to pay for that.

Performance
Maximum Range : approx. 5,000km
Minimum Take-off Distance : 1,707m
Minimum Landing Distance : 1,540m

The above are specs for the Airbus supplied to Easyjet who have no base in Ireland and are based in Luton, this is where I would be targeting my efforts!

O Riain

Teebor15 wrote: »

What do you know about this subject? You must have some expertise in this area to be able to comment like that? What way would you go about completing this project?

I'm not on about the quality of the project being carried out. I'm talking about the fact that, rather then go all out and do a proper runway extension, the government are only providing enough money for a small extension.

Teebor15

hardybuck wrote: »

Yeah it seems from the outside looking in to be a bit of a missed opportunity?

I think €1.25m is the cost of this job? Not a huge pile of money. You'd expect that if the extra length was linked to attracting the extra carriers and routes, they could make a business case to secure funds to pay for that.

Look, of course the Airport would like to build have a 2000m runway to open all doors, but without the state or a philanthropist dipping their hands into their pockets then it ain't going to happen.

So instead they are doing the best they can, since the original promised capital funding was withdrawn they have took stock and rather sit idly by moaning, they have used every possible avenue open to them to secure small amounts of funding to complete many of the periphery tasks that would have been part of the overall project anyway. These include,

Removing an entire hill from one side of the runway to the other.
Purchasing the land required for the extension at either end and grading it ready for tarmac.
All new airfield lighting installed with the ducting moved further from the runway edge to cater for the possible widening of the runway.
Navigation antennas moved further from the south end to cater for extension.
At the moment contractors are just completing a major security fence project on the south side. Ring fencing all the land required for the extension. Just drive the back road from Tramore to Dunmore East and you will see what I'm talking about.

They are doing as much as what little resources they have to get everything ready for the final piece of just to laying the tarmac. I believe they will have to secure the 1m approx to do that themselves also from the private sector.

The reason they have submitted planning for what they have is simply that's all they they feel they afford to do by raising money themselves, and even that may be pushing it. That's why they hope to get 150m done first and then add another 200m in a few years after more more bag packing or sponsored cycles!

1850m for a B737 is just a nominal figure. There are many variables which decide what length is required like type of 737, engine type, how many passengers, how much fuel is required, how far are they going? the wind direction and speed, the outside air temperature, Runway width, runway strength, Is the runway damp or wet?, is the runway on a slope? are there obstacles on the climbout, etc. A fully loaded B737-800 would require over 2000m to go max distance, whereas an empty one to Dublin might only need 1400m.

In summary the airport are taking small steps on their own to hopefully keep the show on the road and eventually get to where we need be (We as in a proper airport for the south east)

O Riain

Teebor15 wrote: »

Look, of course the Airport would like to build have a 2000m runway to open all doors, but without the state or a philanthropist dipping their hands into their pockets then it ain't going to happen.

So instead they are doing the best they can, since the original promised capital funding was withdrawn they have took stock and rather sit idly by moaning, they have used every possible avenue open to them to secure small amounts of funding to complete many of the periphery tasks that would have been part of the overall project anyway. These include,

Removing an entire hill from one side of the runway to the other.
Purchasing the land required for the extension at either end and grading it ready for tarmac.
All new airfield lighting installed with the ducting moved further from the runway edge to cater for the possible widening of the runway.
Navigation antennas moved further from the south end to cater for extension.
At the moment contractors are just completing a major security fence project on the south side. Ring fencing all the land required for the extension. Just drive the back road from Tramore to Dunmore East and you will see what I'm talking about.

They are doing as much as what little resources they have to get everything ready for the final piece of just to laying the tarmac. I believe they will have to secure the 1m approx to do that themselves also from the private sector.

The reason they have submitted planning for what they have is simply that's all they they feel they afford to do by raising money themselves, and even that may be pushing it. That's why they hope to get 150m done first and then add another 200m in a few years after more more bag packing or sponsored cycles!

1850m for a B737 is just a nominal figure. There are many variables which decide what length is required like type of 737, engine type, how many passengers, how much fuel is required, how far are they going? the wind direction and speed, the outside air temperature, Runway width, runway strength, Is the runway damp or wet?, is the runway on a slope? are there obstacles on the climbout, etc. A fully loaded B737-800 would require over 2000m to go max distance, whereas an empty one to Dublin might only need 1400m.

In summary the airport are taking small steps on their own to hopefully keep the show on the road and eventually get to where we need be (We as in a proper airport for the south east)

I knew there was good work going on out in the airport and it's good to get an idea of just what the people involved in the airport are doing.

It is terrible that these people have to put in the extra work due to the lack of help from the government but it is good at least that we have these people willing to fight for the airport and hopefully develop it.

hardybuck

Teebor15 wrote: »

Look, of course the Airport would like to build have a 2000m runway to open all doors, but without the state or a philanthropist dipping their hands into their pockets then it ain't going to happen.

So instead they are doing the best they can, since the original promised capital funding was withdrawn they have took stock and rather sit idly by moaning, they have used every possible avenue open to them to secure small amounts of funding to complete many of the periphery tasks that would have been part of the overall project anyway. These include,

Removing an entire hill from one side of the runway to the other.
Purchasing the land required for the extension at either end and grading it ready for tarmac.
All new airfield lighting installed with the ducting moved further from the runway edge to cater for the possible widening of the runway.
Navigation antennas moved further from the south end to cater for extension.
At the moment contractors are just completing a major security fence project on the south side. Ring fencing all the land required for the extension. Just drive the back road from Tramore to Dunmore East and you will see what I'm talking about.

They are doing as much as what little resources they have to get everything ready for the final piece of just to laying the tarmac. I believe they will have to secure the 1m approx to do that themselves also from the private sector.

The reason they have submitted planning for what they have is simply that's all they they feel they afford to do by raising money themselves, and even that may be pushing it. That's why they hope to get 150m done first and then add another 200m in a few years after more more bag packing or sponsored cycles!

1850m for a B737 is just a nominal figure. There are many variables which decide what length is required like type of 737, engine type, how many passengers, how much fuel is required, how far are they going? the wind direction and speed, the outside air temperature, Runway width, runway strength, Is the runway damp or wet?, is the runway on a slope? are there obstacles on the climbout, etc. A fully loaded B737-800 would require over 2000m to go max distance, whereas an empty one to Dublin might only need 1400m.

In summary the airport are taking small steps on their own to hopefully keep the show on the road and eventually get to where we need be (We as in a proper airport for the south east)

Fair enough. So, in your opinion, what's a realistic type of success for them? Attract one more carrier and about 2-4 routes?

fricatus

Great post Teebor... great to get such insight where normally all we get is speculation!

Teebor15 wrote: »

Look, of course the Airport would like to build have a 2000m runway to open all doors, but without the state or a philanthropist dipping their hands into their pockets then it ain't going to happen.

I think people know that, but it's just that to the casual observer, lengthening the runway to just short of what Ryanair (for example) use doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Why not just hold on, raise more money, then go the whole hog once that's in place? Your post has answered this I think.

Teebor15 wrote: »

1850m for a B737 is just a nominal figure. There are many variables which decide what length is required...

I think anyone with a passing interest in aviation understands this, but AFAIK, that figure is Ryanair's own standard threshold, and consequently (if that's the case) would definitely be important to this discussion.

wellboytoo wrote: »

Performance
Maximum Range : approx. 5,000km
Minimum Take-off Distance : 1,707m
Minimum Landing Distance : 1,540m

The above are specs for the Airbus supplied to Easyjet who have no base in Ireland and are based in Luton, this is where I would be targeting my efforts!

I'm assuming that's for the A319 - would that be right? Once again though, surely Easyjet impose their own standard, which would probably differ from the strict minimum set down by Airbus.

Easyjet flights to Luton would be sweet though - if that's the strategy being followed (even if they can't talk about it), it would seem to make a lot of sense!

Jamie2k9

Easyjet would be excellent and my number one option. Easyjet operate to Jersey which has a runway of 1702m so I don't see any problems with WAT for them. A few others are SEN with 1856m and they operate flights to Tenerife from it and they also operated before form Belfast City 1829m to LTN.

If that is the strategy being followed then one would hope they have held serious discussions and EZY have indicated an interest. Easyjet have recently announced 20% growth in LTN to and if it was them their network out of Luton is pretty good to connect to.

wellboytoo

fricatus wrote: »

Great post Teebor... +1



I'm assuming that's for the A319 - would that be right? Once again though, surely Easyjet impose their own standard, which would probably differ from the strict minimum set down by Airbus.

Easyjet flights to Luton would be sweet though - if that's the strategy being followed (even if they can't talk about it), it would seem to make a lot of sense!

Yes that's correct

b757

If anyone wants to look up the application, go onto the Waterford CoCo's joke of a website and in the planning section search for application number 1489.

Not much on it anyway by the way.

Jamie2k9

Are Flybe about to pull out? Both Manchester and Birmingham no longer bookable after 9 September.

b757

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Are Flybe about to pull out? Both Manchester and Birmingham no longer bookable after 9 September.

I was told no, but I think that they might.

Schedules due out at the end of the month.

Jamie2k9

b757 wrote: »

I was told no, but I think that they might.

Schedules due out at the end of the month.

The schedules that are due at end of the month are from 26 October 2014, flights were on sale up to 25 October recently but not anymore.

oak5548

I heard flybe were doing quite well strangely enough. Just a rumour though.

I dont know why air arann even pulled out, the London route was quite popular wasnt it?
Surprised flybe didnt start doing it.

notharrypotter

Performance
Maximum Range : approx. 5,000km
Minimum Take-off Distance : 1,707m
Minimum Landing Distance : 1,540m

The above are specs for the Airbus supplied to Easyjet who have no base in Ireland and are based in Luton, this is where I would be targeting my efforts!

I'm assuming that's for the A319 - would that be right?

Any calculations for an A320?

It looks like the A319 is being replaced by A320's.

Airbus website Easyjet to buy 135 A320's.

Jamie2k9

notharrypotter wrote: »

Any calculations for an A320?

It looks like the A319 is being replaced by A320's.

Airbus website Easyjet to buy 135 A320's.

Wouldn't worry about that as it will be years before EZY are all A320.

More of a concern is the impact of Flybe going, last straw before closure?
Have management decided to have a complete closure when the runway works are taking place?
Do they want to cut costs during the winter and Flybe reopen the routes in April 2015 for the summer only?

BuffyBot

Surprised flybe didnt start doing it

Flybe are pulling out of London based operations and sold their slots at Gatwick to easyJet. Southend (operated by a franchise) might happen eventually, but who knows..

dzilla

BuffyBot wrote: »

Flybe are pulling out of London based operations and sold their slots at Gatwick to easyJet. Southend (operated by a franchise) might happen eventually, but who knows..

They have pulled the cologne slot at southend during the week. Might offer a landing slot etc

Jamie2k9

BuffyBot wrote: »

Flybe are pulling out of London based operations and sold their slots at Gatwick to easyJet. Southend (operated by a franchise) might happen eventually, but who knows..

Flybe have being granted slots for 4 domestic UK routes beginning in September from City airport in London. Basing an aircraft in WAT to operate LTN is the problem and the costs with it.

BuffyBot

Why would they go to Luton?

dzilla

anybody use the flybe onward service to Paris from WAT?

Thinking of it , would save me driving to Dublin and leaving the car there.