Electric Fence for Dog

ShaShaBear

CollyFowler wrote: »

I'd absolutely recommend one. We have 1 1/2 year old Golden Retriever, she has only ever got 2 shocks and she has never broken out.

Bets money I've ever invested.

You're using it wrong. The dog isn't supposed to get any shocks :rolleyes:

runawaybishop

DBB wrote: »

Are you telling me that the three papers referred to in the first link are not peer-reviewed research papers or review articles? Seriously? It'd be cherry picking if one could find good research which suggests that shock collars do not cause welfare implications... but it's just not out there. Why? There must be a reason why nobody has found zero impact on dog welfare... if they had, I'd have assumed the companies that sell shock collars would have pounced on it by now.
If there was any doubt that there were welfare implications, then surely the Welsh government and currently, the English government would use it to balance out the evidence that is being presented to them to introduce laws to ban shock collars? Their shock-collar laws are anything but reactionary, it has taken years for the English legislators to get to the stage they're at now, ditto for the Welsh legislators.

If you don't accept that these articles are genuine, published and peer-reviewed research articles, there's no more I can say to you... all you've done so far to back up your use of shock collars is to try to discredit me and the available evidence I've used to back up my points, you've posted aggressively, and used foul language. You're going to have to do better than that. Go ahead and justify using the collar all you like, but until you can back your opinion up with something concrete, it's very hard to have any sort of reasonable discourse with you, given your behaviour.

For those who are interested in accepting the legitimacy of the independent published research, here are a few more for you:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016815910300248X

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159197001457

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159108003717

I am saying that you are posting links to a biased blog that cherry picks data from studies. Where is the peer reviewing going on? Even the new links you posted are of poor quality. The first one is comparing dogs that were shocked with dogs that were not. Apart from the fact that dogs shouldn't be shocked in the first place Schalke has shown that dogs that can easily associate the shock with an action do not show persistent stress.


Here's one i cherry picked, its ok to do this right?

Randall Lockwood PhD, Senior Vice President, Anti-cruelty Initiatives and Legislative Services, The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA) "We recognize that older products were often unreliable and difficult to use humanely. But we feel that new technology employed by responsible manufacturers has led to products that can be and are being used safely and effectively to preserve the safety and well-being of many dogs and strengthen the bond with their human companions"

I even cut out the parts of the quote that didn't suit my argument, like the fact that the study was conducted on behalf of a radio collar company. Its really easy when you are selective in what you quote, much like in those blogs you posted.

runawaybishop

borderlinemeath wrote: »

But you don't have to fence the entire site. A dog run doesn't cost anything like that.

Well, obviously. A collar system allows a larger area to be secured for far less.

Alpha Dog 1

krisroger wrote: »

100% agree.
With a good system, good setup and excellent training there is no reason why this should not work.

It's simply not a case of installing it and hoping it works. You need to know how it works and the correct approach to training.

Thank you for the feedback. This is similar to feedback I have got from friends about the system. She is a very clever dog, we only have her just over a week and she is almost fully housetrained already. Obviously I know she needs lots of walks but I also want to be able to give her as much space as possible when I am at work which is why I liked the idea of this as opposed to fencing/wiring. What age did you start to train your puppy with this system?[/quote]

Starting training my dog at 8 months, he's a big strong dog though and eats like a Horse. I'd be inclined to wait a couple months extra for smaller dogs.

borderlinemeath

CollyFowler wrote: »

I'd absolutely recommend one. We have 1 1/2 year old Golden Retriever, she has only ever got 2 shocks and she has never broken out.

Best money I've ever invested.

And to counteract your experience I know a golden retriever who had to be rehomed because he went for the owner as he didn't know where the pain was coming from and lashed out at the nearest person. He was terrified, really terrified and sat glued to one spot most of the day until he got rehomed to a regular garden with boundary walls and no shock collar.

borderlinemeath

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Thank you for the feedback. This is similar to feedback I have got from friends about the system. She is a very clever dog, we only have her just over a week and she is almost fully housetrained already. Obviously I know she needs lots of walks but I also want to be able to give her as much space as possible when I am at work which is why I liked the idea of this as opposed to fencing/wiring. What age did you start to train your puppy with this system?

Starting training my dog at 8 months, he's a big strong dog though and eats like a Horse. I'd be inclined to wait a couple months extra for smaller dogs.

What does size matter? All dogs feel pain and experience fear.

runawaybishop

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And to counteract your experience I know a golden retriever who had to be rehomed because he went for the owner as he didn't know where the pain was coming from and lashed out at the nearest person. He was terrified, really terrified and sat glued to one spot most of the day until he got rehomed to a regular garden with boundary walls and no shock collar.

Sounds like that owner should not be allowed to own dogs.

CollyFowler

ShaShaBear wrote: »

You're using it wrong. The dog isn't supposed to get any shocks :rolleyes:

She got those two on the first day she used it. That was 11 months ago.

It's operating absolutely perfectly, she has full reign of an 1/2 acre rear garden and she is the happiest dog you could imagine.

ShaShaBear

CollyFowler wrote: »

She got those two on the first day she used it. That was 11 months ago.

It's operating absolutely perfectly, she has full reign of an 1/2 acre rear garden and she is the happiest dog you could imagine.

I can't imagine a dog living in fear of electrocution is very happy.

Alpha Dog 1

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And to counteract your experience I know a golden retriever who had to be rehomed because he went for the owner as he didn't know where the pain was coming from and lashed out at the nearest person. He was terrified, really terrified and sat glued to one spot most of the day until he got rehomed to a regular garden with boundary walls and no shock collar.

That why it's very important to train the dog correctly. You need someone who knows what they are doing and who understands the dog. Problems will arise if not done correctly. It's not a case of plugging in the fence, hoping it works and letting the dogs figure it out for themselves.

ShaShaBear

runawaybishop wrote: »

Sounds like that owner should not be allowed to own dogs.

Or sounds like one of the dog's whose personality does not permit use of an electric fence for containment.

Although, admittedly, I know my dog well enough to know I could never use an electric fence. It would never, never work. If the fear didn't kill him, he would end up aggressive. So I would never attempt to use it to contain him - he would never be happy and neither would I.

borderlinemeath

runawaybishop wrote: »

Sounds like that owner should not be allowed to own dogs.

Yes, I agree with you there. I feel that way about anybody who think that using a shock collar is a good form of containment.

CollyFowler

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And to counteract your experience I know a golden retriever who had to be rehomed because he went for the owner as he didn't know where the pain was coming from and lashed out at the nearest person. He was terrified, really terrified and sat glued to one spot most of the day until he got rehomed to a regular garden with boundary walls and no shock collar.

I know between 10-12 people who use shock collars on their dogs and all of them would recommend buying one. I'm not saying that the above case is BS but obviously in the minority.

ShaShaBear

CollyFowler wrote: »

I know between 10-12 people who use shock collars on their dogs and all of them would recommend buying one. I'm not saying that the above case is BS but obviously in the minority.

And all the dogs photographed in pounds with their collars still on? They a minority too?

CollyFowler

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I can't imagine a dog living in fear of electrocution is very happy.

Electrocution :D. I once got a shock from an electric fence, I got shocked not electrocuted. You're posting pure vitriol about an dog that you know nothing about.

I'm posting my personal experiences with the product. You are adding nothing useful to the original request other than pursuing your own little agenda.

runawaybishop

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Or sounds like one of the dog's whose personality does not permit use of an electric fence for containment.

Perhaps, again in that situation by using a collar system with a dog it was not suited to or by persisting in using it when the dog reacted badly due to poor training the owner only further showed that they should not be in charge or dogs.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Yes, I agree with you there. I feel that way about anybody who think that using a shock collar is a good form of containment.

So you have a closed mind about it. That's fine. No need for us to discuss anything further so.

ShaShaBear

CollyFowler wrote: »

Electrocution :D. I once got a shock from an electric fence, I got shocked not electrocuted. You're posting pure vitriol about an dog that you know nothing about.

I'm posting my personal experiences with the product. You are adding nothing useful to the original request other than pursuing your own little agenda.

In fact I posted several pieces of useful information, ie what happens when the fence doesn't work. As it happens the OP ignored everyone except those for which the fence worked, so it was all in vain

Also, did you get shocked on the throat? :rolleyes:

DBB

runawaybishop wrote: »

I am saying that you are posting links to a biased blog that cherry picks data from studies. Where is the peer reviewing going on? Even the new links you posted are of poor quality.

Are you telling me that the multiple links to research published in research journals are not peer reviewed? In the menatime, I'll email Elsevier/Science Direct, and NCBI and let them know that the published papers they host on behalf of various scientific journals are not up to runawaybishop's standards!:D
I linked to one blog, written by a couple of well-respected behavioural scientists, who presumably has also read the research and formed their opinions based on it.
I have quoted multiple research papers, from journals, which suggest that shock collars increase stress in dogs. You have countered that now with one quote from another expert, to counter my one link to a blog from one of the world's most resepcted appled behaviour organisations. Can you counter any of the published research papers I've linked to? I've edited that post to increase the number of links on it.

Now that that's out of the way, can I ask you one more time to clarify your post about me kicking my dog in relation to teaching him/her to obey the sound of my voice? It's rather important to me that you clarify what you mean here, as it could lead a reader here to think that I have kicked my dogs, for ANY reason! So, can I respectfully ask you to clarify what you meant?
Thank you.

runawaybishop

DBB wrote: »

Are you telling me that the multiple links to research published in research journals are not peer reviewed?
I linked to one blog, written by a couple of well-respected behavioural scientists, who presumably has also read the research and formed their opinions based on it.
I have quoted multiple research papers, from journals, which suggest that shock collars increase stress in dogs. You have countered that now with one quote from another expert, to counter my one link to a blog from one of the world's most resepcted appled behaviour organisations. Can you counter any of the published research papers I've linked to? I've edited that post to increase the number of links on it.

Now that that's out of the way, can I ask you one more time to clarify your post about me kicking my dog in relation to teaching him/her to obey the sound of my voice? It's rather important to me that you clarify what you mean here, as it could lead a reader here to think that I have kicked my dogs, for ANY reason! So, can I respectfully ask you to clarify what you meant?
Thank you.

I am not sure how i can explain it any simpler. If you have difficulty understanding what i have posted you are free to pm me.

snoman

CollyFowler wrote: »

.

It's operating absolutely perfectly, she has full reign of an 1/2 acre rear garden and she is the happiest dog you could imagine.

I just would like to know what a dog does when it has 'full reign'. This is a genuine question, because if a dog really does lie on it's arse all day what is the benefit of it having access to all that space, would you see it as a deterrent to trespassers etc?

borderlinemeath

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

That why it's very important to train the dog correctly. You need someone who knows what they are doing and who understands the dog.

Really? You think it's ok to train a dog to submit to pain and fear? So you think you understand dogs based on that?

Problems will arise if not done correctly. It's not a case of plugging in the fence, hoping it works and letting the dogs figure it out for themselves.

Problems will arise regardless of how little or how much training is done. It's not 100% reliable, you admitted as much yourself, in fact you admitted your training failures in one of your first posts on this thread

Having tried for yyears to stop dogs wondering off hunting sheep and walking the roads, being aggressive towards people and chasing cars I installed the fence over 3 years ago and never had any issues apart from a few line breaks.

Seriously, if you think that the best way to keep dogs contained, stop them from worrying sheep, stop them being aggressive towards people:eek::eek: and chasing cars then you've seriously failed your dogs. For your dogs to have all those issues and for you then to shock them into submission is a huge admittance that your training methods do not work.

DBB

runawaybishop wrote: »

I am not sure how i can explain it any simpler. If you have difficulty understanding what i have posted you are free to pm me.

No, you posted here in public something about me kicking my dog to teach it to obey my voice... so I'd prefer if you'd explain here in public again what you meant. Please.
Thanks.

ShaShaBear

Well that's me at my limit for posting within charter regulations. OP has all the information they need, but it seems obvious they are only interested in speaking to people who use the fence with apparent success, and not those who have evidence on the negative effects.

I'm off to lift money from the bank before Shadow blows it all on Red 11. Installing the doggie cam was a much better investment than an electric fence would have been.
Although I wish I didn't know what he was doing to the couch cushions

runawaybishop

DBB wrote: »

No, you posted here in public something about me kicking my dog to teach it to obey my voice... so I'd prefer if you'd explain here in public again what you meant. Please.
Thanks.

Is this a moderator instruction or are you just harassing me on your personal time?

Alpha Dog 1

Quote="ShaShaBear;89313395"]Or sounds like one of the dog's whose personality does not permit use of an electric fence for containment.
[/quote]


Which personality is this?

The one that chases after cars or the one that goes hunting sheep?

borderlinemeath

runawaybishop wrote: »

So you have a closed mind about it. That's fine. No need for us to discuss anything further so.

I certainly don't have an open mind when it comes to training using methods that inflict pain and instill fear. You haven't really done much discussing, only used your own anecdotal evidence based on your dogs and tried to rubbish expert opinion because you considered the links of experts in the fields of canine training and behaviour to be 'biased':rolleyes:

Oh and that it wouldn't be aesthetically pleasing and too expensive to fence in your garden.

andreac

runawaybishop wrote: »

Is this a moderator instruction or are you just harassing me on your personal time?

How is this harrassing? You posted about her kicking her dog, why wont you explain what you meant by that?

ShaShaBear

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Quote="ShaShaBear;89313395"]Or sounds like one of the dog's whose personality does not permit use of an electric fence for containment.

Which personality is this?

The one that chases after cars or the one that goes hunting sheep?[/QUOTE]

The one where the dog does not respond positively to pain.

Or are you going to suggest now that dogs don't have personalities?

Anyway, that's me done. I could go on, but I could also get banned, and I really like talking about Shadow's gambling in here :cool:

runawaybishop

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I certainly don't have an open mind when it comes to training using methods that inflict pain and instill fear. You haven't really done much discussing, only used your own anecdotal evidence based on your dogs and tried to rubbish expert opinion because you considered the links of experts in the fields of canine training and behaviour to be 'biased':rolleyes:

Oh and that it wouldn't be aesthetically pleasing and too expensive to fence in your garden.

You are refusing to accept that collar training is reward based though. Its not about shocking the **** out of the animal.

And yes, i don't want a 7 foot chainlink fence around my property.

1577

We bought an electric fence for our dachshund and he was only shocked twice before he learned the boundaries.
It is wireless and you can set it for 50 metres squared .You then put flags up so the dog knows where not to pass. It starts beeping as he gets to boundary so as to warn him.
It gives him freedom but most importantly it keeps him safe.
I absolutely adore this dog and do not think the collar is in anyway cruel.