Republic of Ireland v Serbia - Friendly International - SS3 - KO:7:45 pm

The_Kew_Tour

After tonight im more worried about Georgia then Scotland or Poland

Aenaes

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

After tonight im more worried about Georgia then Scotland or Poland

I don't think it's THAT bad. Had Keane been playing he probably would have scored the two chances that Long missed.

Keogh and Ward in defence aren't our best options and playing Clark at left back, what was that?

The second half performance was so different from the first, it's just disappointing. Yes, Serbia recovered well to play better in the second half but Ireland threw it away really.

Edit: Coleman again caught out a few times in possession tonight, seems to have gone unnoticed before in other matches. Tries to pass or run past trouble too much instead of just clearing it sometimes.

briany

I don't think we're going to see a great improvement over the Trap era judging on what I saw tonight. The team looked a bit more to pass it a bit , but if it's a choice between hoofing the ball and giving it away in the center of the park, or passing it and giving it away near your own box, which one do you choose? Obviously the preferable thing would be to pass it and not give it away but I don't think the skill and composure is there within the team to play an effective possession game and that's not something any manager can magically solve.

cson

Just back in the door.

Thoughts;

Overall, a very solid first half and we really should have been 2 up before they scored. I suspect the Serbs would have thrown in the towel had we put daylight between us. Once they got confident they absolutely played us off the park; O'Neill and Keane were found seriously wanting when it came to trying to rescue the game. Throwing on Walters beside Murphy and going 4-4-2 meant we were overrun in midfield.

> McClean is not an International class winger. Poor first touch and some terrible decision making. Championship is his level. He should not be starting for us.

> Really missed Dunne or O'Shea at the back to direct and shout for balls. Got caught out a couple of times with that, notably for the first goal.

> Matic is class

> Ivanovic is a serious header of a ball but he's pretty poor positionally as a centre half

> Shane Long has to be putting those chances away.

> Weso should be starting from now on

> Glen Whelan 'gets' International football and should be one of the first names on the team sheet. So so dependable.

LuckyLloyd

Long just isn't a great striker, game and all as he is. It's not hard to see why his output at Premiership level is poor.

cson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Long just isn't a great striker, game and all as he is. It's not hard to see why his output at Premiership level is poor.

His runs and intelligence for finding space are very good though, that's how he gets his chances like tonight. Just a very hit and miss finisher. I say hit and miss instead of poor because his goal tonight was actually a very good finish. He has to be finishing both the clear cut chances he missed though. Keane would have put 1 if not both away.

I keep saying it, for all Robbie's detractors he knows where the goal is and his record testifys to that. We'll be a poorer side without him as things stand.

Pro. F

Disappointing performance. Outside the first ten minutes I'd have to say that the team were playing well below their ability. The back four and midfield looked very apprehensive and, at times, just confused. But it was a friendly and not the strongest team out, so hopefully things will improve by the time the qualification kicks off.

cson

Pro. F wrote: »

Disappointing performance. Outside the first ten minutes I'd have to say that the team were playing well below their ability. The back four and midfield looked very apprehensive and, at times, just confused. But it was a friendly and not the strongest team out, so hopefully things will improve by the time the qualification kicks off.

That would almost be the most worrying thing for me; in contrast to yourself imo Robbie Keane and John O'Shea aside that was our strongest team.

SantryRed

I would love for us to really give 3-5-2 a go. It would really suit our personnel. It also means Hoolahan, Long and Keane could all play. I really think it could work and give us a lot more potential to hold on to the ball, and to create chances.

Something along the lines of:

---

Forde

---

---

O'Shea-Dunne-Wilson

---

Coleman

---

McClean/Ward

---

McCarthy---Whelan

---

---

Hoolahan

---

---

Keane

---

Long

---

The_Kew_Tour

SantryRed wrote: »

I would love for us to really give 3-5-2 a go. It would really suit our personnel. It also means Hoolahan, Long and Keane could all play. I really think it could work and give us a lot more potential to hold on to the ball, and to create chances.

Something along the lines of:

---

Forde

---

---

O'Shea-Dunne-Wilson

---

Coleman

---

McClean/Ward

---

McCarthy---Whelan

---

---

Hoolahan

---

---

Keane

---

Long

---

Have to say I like that team. Bar LWBs.

Would like to see it given a go.

SantryRed

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Have to say I like that team. Bar LWBs.

Would like to see it given a go.

The LWBs is the problem area on the team. I can't really think of anyone else. McClean would need to be well drilled to carry out the role.

cson

McClean doesn't have the discipline to play that role and he never will. It'd have to be Stephen Ward as things stand.

wotzgoingon

Bad performance by Ireland. Out played throughout the second half bar that chance Long had.

Paul Tergat

I keep saying it but you lot will only appreciate what you had in Robbie Keane when he does retire

Pro. F

cson wrote: »

That would almost be the most worrying thing for me; in contrast to yourself imo Robbie Keane and John O'Shea aside that was our strongest team.

I think the back four could change quite a bit, with Wilson maybe moving over to full-back and so possibly two different centre-halves in there. Frustrating how long we'll have to wait before we see what way MON wants to take the team.

Utopia Parkway

Good first half. Awful second half. Coleman had a shocker. Seemed all over the place. Ward and Keogh not far behind him. Hoolahan has to be in the team because the side has very little creativity from midfield without him. Plus they don't bang it long as much as he always makes himself available to take the pass from the defenders. Typical Long in that he scored the difficult chance and missed the two easier ones. Good player but just not clinical enough to take the step up in his career. McCarthy and McGeady fairly quiet. McClean brings energy and directness but his touch at times is woeful.

On the positive side of things we created 3 clear cut one on one chances against the Serbian keeper.

On the negative side we missed two of them and the longer the game went on and especially after Hoolahan went off we barely got a kick.

The_Kew_Tour

Is it just the Turkey game before September left?

RoryMac

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I keep saying it but you lot will only appreciate what you had in Robbie Keane when he does retire

I don't think anyone disputes that, the argument is whether Keane is still up to the required standard.

I think he probably still is for now but not as a definite starter for every game

Pro. F

SantryRed wrote: »

I would love for us to really give 3-5-2 a go. It would really suit our personnel. It also means Hoolahan, Long and Keane could all play. I really think it could work and give us a lot more potential to hold on to the ball, and to create chances.

Something along the lines of:

---

Forde

---

---

O'Shea-Dunne-Wilson

---

Coleman

---

McClean/Ward

---

McCarthy---Whelan

---

---

Hoolahan

---

---

Keane

---

Long

---

Wilson would be a good fit for the left wing-back. Clarke, Delaney, St Ledger (if he ever gets fit), Bruce or somebody else I'm probably forgetting then to take his place in the central 3.

Nice enough formation, although maybe it would require too much defensive running from Hoolahan. It's also a bit of a pity to not use wingers when we have a decent collection of them.

Paul Tergat

RoryMac wrote: »

I don't think anyone disputes that, the argument is whether Keane is still up to the required standard.

I think he probably still is for now but not as a definite starter for every game

I know loads of people who still dispute it. He is and will continue to keep scoring for Ireland and over the last couple of years I've seen plenty on here saying he shouldnt be in the team anymore.

RoryMac

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I know loads of people who still dispute it. He is and will continue to keep scoring for Ireland and over the last couple of years I've seen plenty on here saying he shouldnt be in the team anymore.

I can't imagine there's many fans that would dispute Keane's contribution throughout his career, his ability to contribute now is definitely up for discussion and in no way should take away from his past achievements.

For me he still has a part to play but probably more as an impact sub

Paul Tergat

RoryMac wrote: »

I can't imagine there's many fans that would dispute Keane's contribution throughout his career, his ability to contribute now is definitely up for discussion and in no way should take away from his past achievements.

For me he still has a part to play but probably more as an impact sub

I think this is the problem. People still not recognising he will continue getting goals

RoryMac

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I think this is the problem. People still not recognising he will continue getting goals

Maybe but Keane's position in the team is definitely up for discussion and the idea from some that this is some slight on his achievements is way wide of the mark

aidan24326

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Maybe it will have a positive effect in the long run. Those who said getting second spot in our Euro group would be straightforward ought to have a rethink. We are desperately lacking in quality.

I haven't heard anyone say that second would be straightforward. With Scotland improving even third place is far from certain.

Let's just hope we can put up a decent show against the Germans this time, good as they are we should at least be competitive and not getting spanked.

The games against poland and Scotland are games that could go either way but with a more positive approach under the new management I'd be hopeful. We're not great but we're not as bad as Trap's awful negativity and stubborness made us look either.

monkey9

Pro. F wrote: »

Wilson would be a good fit for the left wing-back. Clarke, Delaney, St Ledger (if he ever gets fit), Bruce or somebody else I'm probably forgetting then to take his place in the central 3.

Nice enough formation, although maybe it would require too much defensive running from Hoolahan. It's also a bit of a pity to not use wingers when we have a decent collection of them.

Bruce has changed allegiance to the North.

LuckyLloyd

RoryMac wrote: »

Maybe but Keane's position in the team is definitely up for discussion and the idea from some that this is some slight on his achievements is way wide of the mark

Keane's inclusion in the starting 11 has been 'in question' from some quarters since 2008 tbh. When we get to the end of a campaign and he's not our top scorer then we should probably reassess.

StephenHendry

ok performance, we struggled badly in the second half, similar to the sweden game we started off really well in the first 10-15 mins, we at least are trying to play more positively ,

SantryRed

Pro. F wrote: »

Wilson would be a good fit for the left wing-back. Clarke, Delaney, St Ledger (if he ever gets fit), Bruce or somebody else I'm probably forgetting then to take his place in the central 3.

Nice enough formation, although maybe it would require too much defensive running from Hoolahan. It's also a bit of a pity to not use wingers when we have a decent collection of them.

I agree that it would be a pity not to play our wingers, but it's more important we find a way to have both Keane and Hoolahan on the pitch at the same time. Keane would have had a hat trick last night.

Demosthenese

How on earth people keep talking about Keane taking the chances that Long had last night!!! Keane would NEVER had had those particular chances cos the guy has no pace. He doesn't even play in the lone striker role like Long does so whats the point of comparing. If Keane had the pace of long, the running ability and the stamina he would be on the bloody pitch!

International soccer has moved on since the days of 2 out and out strikers up front. We've seen Robbie play in games against Italy/Spain etc where he was deployed as the no10 and it was a disaster. We rarely had the ball and he ended up dropping deep to cover the midfield berth. There is no point in playing him there when we play against superior opposition. We need him in the games against the lesser teams when we need goals and they are easier to come by.

Last 20 off mins against the Germanys of this campaign if we are looking for a goal and the game is tight. Could probably start him in a few home games against the Gibraltars. O Neill will have an idea of where best to use him. But as an automatic starter ... not anymore.

Dempsey

Demosthenese wrote: »

How on earth people keep talking about Keane taking the chances that Long had last night!!! Keane would NEVER had had those particular chances cos the guy has no pace. He doesn't even play in the lone striker role like Long does so whats the point of comparing. If Keane had the pace of long, the running ability and the stamina he would be on the bloody pitch!

International soccer has moved on since the days of 2 out and out strikers up front. We've seen Robbie play in games against Italy/Spain etc where he was deployed as the no10 and it was a disaster. We rarely had the ball and he ended up dropping deep to cover the midfield berth. There is no point in playing him there when we play against superior opposition. We need him in the games against the lesser teams when we need goals and they are easier to come by.

Last 20 off mins against the Germanys of this campaign if we are looking for a goal and the game is tight. Could probably start him in a few home games against the Gibraltars. O Neill will have an idea of where best to use him. But as an automatic starter ... not anymore.

You do realise that keane is still first choice?

Banjaxed82

Dempsey wrote: »

You do realise that keane is still first choice?

When did MON say that?

Banjaxed82

Demosthenese wrote: »

How on earth people keep talking about Keane taking the chances that Long had last night!!! Keane would NEVER had had those particular chances cos the guy has no pace. He doesn't even play in the lone striker role like Long does so whats the point of comparing. If Keane had the pace of long, the running ability and the stamina he would be on the bloody pitch!

International soccer has moved on since the days of 2 out and out strikers up front. We've seen Robbie play in games against Italy/Spain etc where he was deployed as the no10 and it was a disaster. We rarely had the ball and he ended up dropping deep to cover the midfield berth. There is no point in playing him there when we play against superior opposition. We need him in the games against the lesser teams when we need goals and they are easier to come by.

Last 20 off mins against the Germanys of this campaign if we are looking for a goal and the game is tight. Could probably start him in a few home games against the Gibraltars. O Neill will have an idea of where best to use him. But as an automatic starter ... not anymore.

Keane easily would have taken those chances. Pace wasn't an issue. It's not like Long was 70 yards from goal. Keane could excel with Hoolahan feeding him pinpoint balls like that. I'd be confident in that regards. If we can get Keane in the team, I would have him in...but in lies the problem. If Hoolahan gets marked out of a game, and supply is reduced in general, Keane's input drops to next to nothing and he ends up being carried somewhat.

Demosthenese

Dempsey wrote: »

You do realise that keane is still first choice?

Missed where Martin O Neill mentioned that. Can't see him as first choice when the campaign starts. He is not up to it anymore at that level to play a lone striker. Would be surprised if O Neill started him in that role.

Demosthenese

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Keane easily would have taken those chances. Pace wasn't an issue. It's not like Long was 70 yards from goal. Keane could excel with Hoolahan feeding him pinpoint balls like that. I'd be confident in that regards. If we can get Keane in the team, I would have him in...but in lies the problem. If Hoolahan gets marked out of a game, and supply is reduced in general, Keane's input drops to next to nothing and he ends up being carried somewhat.

That's why we have O Neill making the decisions i guess. People jumping on Long from last night wasting the 2 chances he got from 3. Its amazing how Keanes stock rises when he wasn't éven there - obviously we are speculating here but whose to say Keane would and would not have A Made those chances and B converted them. I agree that Keane is lethal once he gets into those positions but therein lies the problem. We don't create alot of them chances from last few games experience anyway.

Pace imo is an issue, Long made those runs across the lines and sorry i cannot remember the last time i seen Keane do something like that. He is different type of player. Of course, under Trap, as i said - he was just played in the wrong position in the wrong tactical setup. More as a workhorse.

Not knocking Robbie Keane, the guy is immense for Ireland and deserves respect. Just i'd imagine O Neill will deploy him a little more smartly.

Banjaxed82

Demosthenese wrote: »

That's why we have O Neill making the decisions i guess. People jumping on Long from last night wasting the 2 chances he got from 3. Its amazing how Keanes stock rises when he wasn't éven there - obviously we are speculating here but whose to say Keane would and would not have A Made those chances and B converted them. I agree that Keane is lethal once he gets into those positions but therein lies the problem. We don't create alot of them chances from last few games experience anyway.

Not really a case of "how do we know Keane would have scored?", more so the issue that Long is cementing the fact that he is dreadfully inconsistent in front of goal, and at a level where you won't get many chances, I would bet my house every time on Keane converting ahead of Long.


Pace imo is an issue, Long made those runs across the lines and sorry i cannot remember the last time i seen Keane do something like that. He is different type of player. Of course, under Trap, as i said - he was just played in the wrong position in the wrong tactical setup. More as a workhorse.

I don't remember Keane having someone like Hoolahan threading balls through during Trap's reign. A well crafted through ball can make pace irrelevant, especially in the final third, which I would always fancy Keane.

Not knocking Robbie Keane, the guy is immense for Ireland and deserves respect. Just i'd imagine O Neill will deploy him a little more smartly.

I agree that MON has some serious decisions to make. Not easy.

In bold above. Too lazy to multi quote

RoryMac

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Keane easily would have taken those chances. Pace wasn't an issue. It's not like Long was 70 yards from goal. Keane could excel with Hoolahan feeding him pinpoint balls like that. I'd be confident in that regards. If we can get Keane in the team, I would have him in...but in lies the problem. If Hoolahan gets marked out of a game, and supply is reduced in general, Keane's input drops to next to nothing and he ends up being carried somewhat.

That sums it up for me too, Keane is without doubt our best finisher but if we can't create the chances for him his contribution drops.

I'd still have him starting most games but against teams like Germany I think we would be better playing Long or Walters who's work-rate would be higher with Keane coming off the bench in the latter stages.

Dempsey

Demosthenese wrote: »

Missed where Martin O Neill mentioned that. Can't see him as first choice when the campaign starts. He is not up to it anymore at that level to play a lone striker. Would be surprised if O Neill started him in that role.

There is nothing to suggest that he's fallen down the pecking order. I picked up that he's still 1st choice from Shane Longs comments before the game. Longs performance last night typified his career to date and we certainly cant rely on a workhorse foward like that to win tight games.

Pro. F

I'd like to see Keane given a chance playing in front of Hoolahan. As long as the team look to keep the ball on the deck I don't think having a goal poacher up front is a problem.