Wayne Rooney

Vinz Mesrine

Paulegend wrote: »

do you not think the term world class should be more exclusive?? how many players would be world class in your eyes?




yea sure i said Xavi/Iniesta or you could take it as "xavi or maybe Iniesta" is that more clear??

I posted my thoughts on the term world class earlier in the thread.

Paulegend

Rooney is good but very overrated

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I posted my thoughts on the term world class earlier in the thread.

yet your obsessed with disproving mine

Vinz Mesrine

Paulegend wrote: »

yet your obsessed with disproving mine

Obsessed??? I've asked you one question on this thread.

Paulegend

Rooney is good but very overrated

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Obsessed??? I've asked you one question on this thread.

first you have a go about suarez then you go on to say my point is stupid because i even made reference to xavi being considered world class as he "has been a shadow of himself in the last 3 years"(i wonder what rooney has been)

your trying to put a foot in on what i consider world class. as if im saying everyone else is sh*t

Pro. F

Rooney is a great player but not World class or a football legend

Paulegend wrote: »

yea in terms of goal scoring

Except you did not make that distinction. All you said was that Darren Bent was a similarly skilled player to Wayne Rooney and cheaper.

Paulegend wrote: »

why the f*ck do you even care this much??

I find debating on the soccer forum entertaining.

Vinz Mesrine

Paulegend wrote: »

first you have a go about suarez then you go on to say my point is stupid because i even made reference to xavi being considered world class as he "has been a shadow of himself in the last 3 years"(i wonder what rooney has been)

your trying to put a foot in on what i consider world class. as if im saying everyone else is sh*t

You're very touchy. I haven't had a go at you about anything.

The_Kew_Tour

Rooney is good but very overrated

Its between the first 2 options for me. Im in the middle of those 2, but if I had to pick and the one I did was option 2.

Paulegend

Rooney is good but very overrated

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

You're very touchy. I haven't had a go at you about anything.

yea i realise im just been wound up by one or two to be honest. i apologise

darced

Rooney is good but very overrated

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Paulegend

Rooney is good but very overrated

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

thats a very fair point

but i think he would probably make the top 10 strikers list alright

even with messi and ronaldo included

Messi, Ronaldo, Cavani, Falcao, Ibra, Suarez, Lew, Higgs, Rvp, Costa, Aguero, Sanchez, Tevez, Benzema

arguably the best strikers in europe maybe missing one or two additions. but in terms of top 10 id have rooney in there

derm0j073

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

Great talent , pi55 poor pro. Rooney is good but very overrated was my vote , he doesn't have any where near the impact he should most games.

Soft Falling Rain

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

I watched the full game last night and TBH I thought he was quite poor. Poor and lazy shooting particularly seemed to be a major problem.

That's not to say that he isn't a great player, he is, but he doesn't compliment Sturridge and Sterling at all, and Hodgson seems set on the current formation. Once himself and Wilshere came off and were replaced by Lallana and Welbeck (even though I don't rate him all that much), England looked much more purposeful and dangerous in attack.

I think for England's sake he should be on the bench in the summer.

Too Tough To Die

Rooney is a great player but not World class or a football legend

When i see him play for England i can't help but think he looks like a man who regrets not opting to play for the Republic of Ireland.

Rayne Wooney

Rooney is a great player but not World class or a football legend

For me world class is a player who would look at home in a best XI, but that isn't to say there's only one world XI, there can be different combinations.

I saw someone making the argument using one world XI, but that's pretty pointless. RVP wouldn't get in, Suarez wouldn't make it in, if there was only 1, but that isn't to say they aren't world class on form because they obviously are. Same with Yaya Toure, Fabregas, Aguero. They wouldn't make it in if you made just 1, but they wouldn't look out of place in different combinations.

Rooney is for me, playing in his best position, world class. Recent seasons he's played left wing, right wing, centre mid, as a number 10, everything bar a main striker. He takes one for the team, and plays where he's needed, yet doesn't lose the relentlessness and determination to win despite playing out of position. Yet when he's played as the main man he will match any striker.

04/05 debut season: top scorer with 11 league goals

05/06: van Nistelrooy used as focal point, scores 21 goals, Rooney scores 16

06/07: Rooney takes second string to Ronaldo who scores 17 goals, Rooney scores 14

07/08: As above and Tevez arrives, Ronaldo scores 31, Rooney scores 12

08/09: As above Ronaldo top scorer again, Rooney scores 12

During the Ronaldo era the attack came from the right side because it just had to with him in the team, so Rooney played second fiddle.

09/10: Ronaldo and Tevez leave, Rooney plays 32 league games as the main striker scoring 26 goals

10/11: Fergie buys Berba who finishes the season top scorer, Rooney 11 goals

11/12: Berbatov is dropped, Rooney plays 32 games as a main striker and scores 27 goals

12/13: Fergie buys RVP who finished the season top scorer, Rooney scores 12 goals


In his current position his class still shines through, but he just lacks the creativity to play that number 10 role. He's not a world class number 10, but he's played there as a compromise to fit both him and RVP in. I think it's possible he'll be back up top next season and will be United's top scorer again.

Liam O

He had the potential to be a top level 10. He was incredibly creative in his first 2 seasons and his assist totals are something that is being overlooked is that he was among the top in the league for that every season he scored under 20.

When Ronaldo left he completely adapted his game to be the main striker, adjusting everything from his first touch to his positioning. He now has a striker's first touch rather than a no.10's first touch which is his main failing in the position. His touch is a heavy one that he would run onto and score rather than control closely and look for a pass. He still has the vision and passing accuracy but the touch just isn't there a lot of the time so everything is off. He still shows glimpses of his old ability but he's stuck in a middle ground of the two positions at the moment and it's extremely disjointed. I'm not sure he can adapt again to the deep role but is still a top class out and out striker. With a higher lying and more dynamic midfield pair behind them I think him and RVP can work. As it is now the team is set up so poorly that it's not a situation for either or both of them to thrive.

rosskind

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

04/05 debut season: top scorer with 11 league goals

05/06: van Nistelrooy used as focal point, scores 21 goals, Rooney scores 16

06/07: Rooney takes second string to Ronaldo who scores 17 goals, Rooney scores 14

07/08: As above and Tevez arrives, Ronaldo scores 31, Rooney scores 12

08/09: As above Ronaldo top scorer again, Rooney scores 12

During the Ronaldo era the attack came from the right side because it just had to with him in the team, so Rooney played second fiddle.

09/10: Ronaldo and Tevez leave, Rooney plays 32 league games as the main striker scoring 26 goals

10/11: Fergie buys Berba who finishes the season top scorer, Rooney 11 goals

11/12: Berbatov is dropped, Rooney plays 32 games as a main striker and scores 27 goals

12/13: Fergie buys RVP who finished the season top scorer, Rooney scores 12 goals

To add to this further, in the only two seasons he hits 20+ goals, United don't win the league, the only two times in the last seven years that they didn't (that's excluding this year and his first two years).

Coincidence? Maybe he can take one for the team and play as a 10 and do a great job, then when he plays as a 9, he's still great but nobody is as good a 10 as him and United suffer? Or maybe it is just coincidence.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

And I consider this a damning indictment of Rooneys place in the pantheon. If your major assets in a discussion of world class are workrate and desire then you aren't world class. You need to have a whole lot more in your locker than that.

Who said he doesn't have other stuff in his locker though? He clearly has.

I don't think he's at the level at others in the league though but that's because he isn't being utilised properly. He'll always play 2nd fiddle to RvP at Utd in his favourite position.

Imo a move to Chelsea would have been perfect for him in the summer but that ship has sailed.

PhlegmyMoses

rosskind wrote: »

To add to this further, in the only two seasons he hits 20+ goals, United don't win the league, the only two times in the last seven years that they didn't (that's excluding this year and his first two years).

Coincidence? Maybe he can take one for the team and play as a 10 and do a great job, then when he plays as a 9, he's still great but nobody is as good a 10 as him and United suffer? Or maybe it is just coincidence.

It is a coincidence. In 09/10 he was incredible but was halted towards the end when he got his ankle rolled in a tackle against Bayern Munich in the CL. This hindered him for a while afterwards but he, and Valencia, were the reasons why we had a shot at the title that year.

rosskind

It shows while he prefers 10, he can step forward and play as a 9 and score goals if need be, when others aren't scoring. Perhaps maybe the lack of another top class 10 (when he plays 9) was a reason for failure, although that's debatable as the two leagues were lost by one point and then on goal difference. However it does suggest Mata off Rooney (if RVP goes as I suspect) could be a special partnership for years to come.

Giggsy11

RVP went off and there wasn't any problem with Rooney's link up play.

rob316

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

Anonymous for England again last night and from what I have seen so far this season of him he's been awful. For the wages and hype you expect a much better player.

Raheem Sterling is now the main man for England, Roy has made a huge mistake making Wayne captain as he is undropable now. Welbeck deserves to be starting ahead of him.

Harry Palmr

rob316 wrote: »

Anonymous for England again last night and from what I have seen so far this season of him he's been awful. For the wages and hype you expect a much better player.

Raheem Sterling is now the main man for England, Roy has made a huge mistake making Wayne captain as he is undropable now. Welbeck deserves to be starting ahead of him.

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Hendo-Lallana

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Sterling

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Welbeck-Sturridge

should be the front 5 and not just cos it will be 4 Liverpool players! (though having club understanding certainly helps) Rooney is the one who ends up dictating the pace of Engand and as he is now quite slow its kills them.

Past his peak at this stage and probably 3rd choice in his best position at club level now

NIMAN

Rooney was never in the Top 3 in the world, despite the English press telling us he was.

He is definitely on the downward part of his career and for Utd to be paying him £300k per week is absolute madness, he isn't worth half that. £78,000,000 he will have earned from Utd by the time his contract is up, and just imagine how average he will be in 4 or 5 years time.

Rayne Wooney

Rooney is a great player but not World class or a football legend

Some posters are quick to blame Hodgson's "system" when players off the team they support are ridiculed after a poor game yet Rooney is excluded from this and completely open for full on criticism despite being their best player the last year and a half.

On ability he is ahead of every England player, he is captain, if anybody has to go it's Hodgson but then it's still England at the end of the day regardless of manager. How have they done the past 14 years with a golden generation of players?

Iused2likebusts

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Some posters are quick to blame Hodgson's "system" when players off the team they support are ridiculed after a poor game yet Rooney is excluded from this and completely open for full on criticism despite being their best player the last year and a half.

On ability he is ahead of every England player, he is captain, if anybody has to go it's Hodgson but then it's still England at the end of the day regardless of manager. How have they done the past 14 years with a golden generation of players?

He is ahead on name and reputation his form for the past couple of seasons for club/country wouldnt suggest he is englands best player.

Rayne Wooney

Rooney is a great player but not World class or a football legend

Yeah sure he has only scored 29 goals and assisted 20 in 49 league games in his last 2 seasons and been England's best player in qualifying scoring 7 goals in 6 qualifiers

Iused2likebusts

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yeah sure he has only scored 29 goals and assisted 20 in 49 league games in his last 2 seasons and been England's best player in qualifying scoring 7 goals in 6 qualifiers

I watched a lot of his games as you did and surely you can see he hasnt been half the player he used to be the last couple of seasons. He was englands main striker in the last qualifying campaign so you would expect him to be top goalscorer not sure being top goalscorer equates to being the best player though. I certainly wouldnt be dropping him from the england team yet but its right there are now questions being asked about his place in the team.

Rooney is still one of englands better players but he's not at the level he was at his peak.

Was a bit of a flop at major tournaments overall too I guess

tigger123

I think LVG making him captain is more about trying to get the best out of him, as opposed to him being a leader on the pitch.

I think he's past it tbh.

Liam O

Ha, suddenly Welbeck is the one who should be playing. Funny how he was the one certain people were calling to be dropped prior to the WC. Wonder what's changed there?

Demosthenese

Rooney is good but very overrated

Rooney was an unbelievable talent when he broke through so early, it's hard to imagine it was over 10 years ago now since he scored that screamer against Arsenal. Bought for big money, immediately identified by Fergie as the next big thing and rightly so.

He had some really good years for United and especially after Ronaldo left he had an amazing year. But to keep up that level for so long proves to be too much for him and since Fergie realised that he wasn't the no.1 anymore and began to ship him out wide just has not been the player everyone wants him to be. Its a crushing blow for him NOT to be the main man and by playing him anywhere but his natural position is kind of pointless.

Work ethic and effort on the pitch is usually faultless - but that doesn't make him world class just a good pro. Still a dangerous player on his day but nowhere near as valuable to his club or country as he once was. For United it is a struggle now to fit him in beside RVP and Mata/Falcao and still convince yourself that he deserves his place, for England he will be sacrificed out wide for Sturridge and his career will end in the same vein as Gerard/Lampard cos no manager had the balls to drop one or the other in their prime.

Once a potential world class player, has become a very good player and done it consistently over the years.

Kharrell

Rooney is good but very overrated

I don't think he should be starting for club or country as of right now. He's shown very little for quite a while now. It'll be interesting what Van Gaal does when Van Persie is back fit, and if Rooney still hasn't found his form. He is replaceable in the starting XI with Mata and Di Maria around.

Stanlex

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

I think Rooney should accept it and become a center midfielder. I think he will be appreciated more there.

Stanlex

Stanlex wrote: »

I think Rooney should accept it and become a center midfielder. I think he will be appreciated more there.

He's not a central midfielder and probably never will be. Certainly not at a top level

MD1990

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

Years of a poor lifestyle is catching up on him. Past his best & never realised his potential imo. Lacks the aggression in his game he use to have as he is alot slower.

Stanlex

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's not a central midfielder and probably never will be. Certainly not at a top level

He's not a striker either. His work ethic, passing and vision, complete with experience makes him a prefect midfielder. Rooney has never scored 30 goals a season in the EPL. He averages around 18 i would say. Especially now when Man Utd have 2 world class strikers in RVP and Falcao, Rooney is the odd one out up front in my opinion.

Talib Fiasco

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

Once upon a time there was no doubt Rooney was a world class player but he has fallen off that status with some years now. Still a good player and has a few years left at the top left in him but his best days are well behind him imo.

Utopia Parkway

Stanlex wrote: »

He's not a striker either. His work ethic, passing and vision, complete with experience makes him a prefect midfielder. Rooney has never scored 30 goals a season in the EPL. He averages around 18 i would say. Especially now when Man Utd have 2 world class strikers in RVP and Falcao, Rooney is the odd one out up front in my opinion.

RVP might be getting further over the hill than Rooney at this stage.

Soft Falling Rain

Rooney is horribly overrated and not all that good

Liam O wrote: »

Ha, suddenly Welbeck is the one who should be playing. Funny how he was the one certain people were calling to be dropped prior to the WC. Wonder what's changed there?

I'm a Liverpool fan and I was championing Welbeck for England since before the World Cup over Rooney. The former plays infinitely better with Sturridge and Sterling.

Jaysus I was even saying in the Pool thread a week or so back that I wouldn't say no toa cheeky bid on him!

Liam O

Stanlex wrote: »

He's not a striker either. His work ethic, passing and vision, complete with experience makes him a prefect midfielder. Rooney has never scored 30 goals a season in the EPL. He averages around 18 i would say. Especially now when Man Utd have 2 world class strikers in RVP and Falcao, Rooney is the odd one out up front in my opinion.

Lol, how many players have ever scored 30 goals in a PL season? I'll tell you. Andy Cole once. Shearer did it like 3 times but he was probably the best out and out striker in the era and this was before the huge foreign injection.
Phillips once. Henry once. Ronaldo once. Van Persie once and Suarez once. Hardly anything against anyone who hasn't done it, you know like Drogba, Torres, Van Nistelrooy etc. He's probably going to finish his career as both England and United's top scorer EVER and only the best team of all time stopped him leading United to a CL in 2011.

Saying he averages about 18 when the information is available to you as to how he is a 1 in 2 player and his goalscoring record when played as the main striker is much higher than that. His touch is terrible at times these days so no, he would not make the perfect midfielder.