Can landlords deduct from deposit for PRTB

c-dog

Hi, I am looking for some advice.

The tenants in my apartment are moving out early and breaking a fixed term lease. I have told them I will be deducting expenses as they are moving out early. I know we can take advertising costs and any damages (don’t think there is any). But I was wondering about PRTB costs?

We will be registering a new tenant within the same year because they are breaking the lease, I would view this as an expense as a direct result of them breaking the contract. Can we take that expense out of their deposit?
Only asking as this is the 2nd tenant in this period and before that we had 3 in a 12 month period. €90 every time is expensive.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
C

Chattastrophe!

No.

ABajaninCork

Nope! Why would the PRTB registration fee be the responsibility of the tenant?

paul71

Actually the PTRB fee would be the least of the tenants potential liabilities. You are quite entitled to refund none of the deposit and sue them for the balance of the rent to the end of the fixed term on the lease.

c-dog

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Nope! Why would the PRTB registration fee be the responsibility of the tenant?

Hi Thanks for the replies.
Not saying the registration cost is the tenant’s responsibility. As mentioned we registered them as required but when tenants keep breaking the lease we keep incurring the cost and we are not career landlords and do not make any profit from this property.

Don’t want to keep their entire deposit, nice couple and have kept property well. Only looking to clarify exactly what expenses are allowable.

Thanks for the replies.

djimi

paul71 wrote: »

You are quite entitled to refund none of the deposit and sue them for the balance of the rent to the end of the fixed term on the lease.

No youre not. A landlord must move to quickly mitigate their loss, and can only deduct from the deposit to make up for lost rent (if they find a new tenant in a week then they must return 3 weeks worth of rent from the deposit to the outgoing tenant, minus further deductions for damage etc).

The_Conductor

If a tenant breaks a lease- it is a reasonable assumption that any costs incurred in reletting the property would be the first tenants costs- however, their obligation to pay rent to the end of the original lease, is no longer valid- unless there is a shortfall between the rent charged to the second tenant and that which they are contractually obliged to pay- in which case, they'd be liable for the difference (though good luck chasing it).

D3PO

im not so sure the OP isnt entitled to dedut for the PRTB fee guys.

We all agree that he is entitled to deduct reletting expenses right ?

It could be very well argued that the additional PRTB fee he has incurred as a fact of early breakage of the lease is a reletting expense.


And before people argue that he would have had to pay this anyway when he relet lets expand the situation a bit.

tenant moved in after a month breaks lease and leaves
relet new prtb fee is due and again the new tenant leaves after a month
relet new prtb fee is due and again new tenant leaves after 6 months
relet net prtb fee is due again

the LL is incurring significant cost in PRTB fees each time that would not have been incurred if the lease agreements were adhered to. Its not as simple as just pushing his cost base forward a bit.

Id argue that its a genuine deduction based on that. NOW In a PRTB dispute I dont think they would side with that argument but if I were the LL Id leave it to the tenant to challenge my perspective on it.

Ray Palmer

Yes you can deduct the PRTB registration of the new tenant but only a portion as pointed out. It is an incurred expense due to them breaking the lease.

Depending on how long it takes to get a tenant they may owe more than their deposit. Do not return it until a new tenant has been taken in.

murphaph

^^ What they said. The PRTB is a reletting expense. The LL would not have incurred this expense had the tenant not broken their lease.

Definitely hold on to the deposit until a new tenant is in place (you have to make genuine effort to find new tenant and without delay) and then any shortfall between the contracted rent and what the LL will get from new tenants is the responsibility of the old tenants, so deposit may well be entirely eaten up with that and the LL would still be out of pocket due to the breaking of the lease.

Keep all receipts (PRTB daft, cleaning etc.) and be able to prove to the PRTB that you moved to re-let without delay.

odds_on

Just do an assignment of the current lease. There is nothing to say that the landlord can't find the new tenants. In fact as djimi has pointed out, the landlord is obliged to mitigate any loss in rent from a vacating tenant as soon as possible.

c-dog

Thanks for all the replies.

TBH they are good tenants so we don’t have any expenses for damages or cleaning etc.

We never have a problem letting the place so can’t see us charging them for that but will hold the deposit just in case. At the moment we were only looking to take the €36 euro advertising fee and the registration fee for the PRTB and we wanted to clarify we were within rights to do that before hand.

As I said in original post, we are looking at a 5th tenant within 2 year so it’s getting expensive and we don’t make a profit on this property (far from it!)

Ray Palmer

c-dog wrote: »

As I said in original post, we are looking at a 5th tenant within 2 year so it’s getting expensive and we don’t make a profit on this property (far from it!)

That is extraordinary. Why are they all leaving? You have been very unlucky or there is something wrong

The_Conductor

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is extraordinary. Why are they all leaving? You have been very unlucky or there is something wrong

Thats what I was thinking too.
5 in 2 years is quite a toll.

c-dog

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is extraordinary. Why are they all leaving? You have been very unlucky or there is something wrong

Just been very unlucky, we keep the place perfect. come up asap if they call for any issues ( last one was dishwasher wouldnt work and it was replaced with a new one within 3 days). We do our best but thats just the way it goes sometimes.

Fingers crossed the next ones stay a bit longer

odds_on

c-dog wrote: »

Just been very unlucky, we keep the place perfect. come up asap if they call for any issues ( last one was dishwasher wouldnt work and it was replaced with a new one within 3 days). We do our best but thats just the way it goes sometimes.

Fingers crossed the next ones stay a bit longer

Instead of new tenancies, why aren't you doing assignments? For PRTB purposes, an assignment is just a change of tenant rather than a new tenancy.

D3PO

odds_on wrote: »

Instead of new tenancies, why aren't you doing assignments? For PRTB purposes, an assignment is just a change of tenant rather than a new tenancy.

Unless the lease is being reassigned I dont think that would be above board ?

The_Conductor

D3PO wrote: »

Unless the lease is being reassigned I dont think that would be above board ?

Plus the original tenant would have to seek to reassign the lease- and any new tenant would be subject to the original lease- which would likely only have a portion to remain on it. Its not really in the interests of either the landlord or the new tenant to reassign the lease- though it would be in the old tenant's interest- if the landlord chased them under the conditions of the original lease (which they would presumably be in breach of- if they didn't reassign it).

odds_on

If the OP has had 5 tenants in 2 years, as I understand him, then he has paid 450 euros PRTB registration fees. If assignments (or reassingments) had been used, The original PRTB fee would still be valid. He would still have another two years to go before there is a need for a new tenancy (or a Further Part 4 tenancy).

The_Conductor

odds_on wrote: »

If the OP has had 5 tenants in 2 years, as I understand him, then he has paid 450 euros PRTB registration fees. If assignments (or reassingments) had been used, The original PRTB fee would still be valid. He would still have another two years to go before there is a need for a new tenancy (or a Further Part 4 tenancy).

Whats in it for a new tenant though? Its not in their interest to accept a reassigned lease.

odds_on

The_Conductor wrote: »

Whats in it for a new tenant though? Its not in their interest to accept a reassigned lease.

And why not - what are the disadvantages?

The_Conductor

odds_on wrote: »

And why not - what are the disadvantages?

Rent review in a matter of months, for starters.....?

ted1

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Nope! Why would the PRTB registration fee be the responsibility of the tenant?

its an expense being occurred as a result of tenants moving out.

say you rent a place for 12 months. it'll cost you €90 in PRTB registration
now is a tenant stays moves out after 3 months and a new one moves in. well then you have to pay €90 registration again.

its directly related to a tenant moving out

marathonic

This is an interesting topic. I'd veer towards it being deductible from the deposit - I wonder is this something worth adding to future leases as a landlord (kind of set the expectation for the tenant so that they don't query the €90 deduction if they break the one-year lease).

foggy_lad

Has anyone asked the PRTB if they think it is a legitimate deduction from a deposit?