Cancelling my Wedding Band - HELP!

Penny Tration

mulamike wrote: »

I think the OP is going to have a great wedding day with his new band. And he's taught us all a valuable lesson in contract law. What a guy.

Are you a part of the band? If you are, which I highly suspect, despite how many people may disagree with the original poster, you are doing your band absolutely no favours.

Tippex

petes wrote: »

Or read any of the previous posts!

I did and they don't state that he is part of the band. I was assuming from the tone etc that they had been posted in. I see his first post is edited so I'm assuming that is the one you are referring to.

dudara

Posters - just because someone has a different opinion doesn't automatically mean they are part of the band. Stop trotting out that tired old line.

dudara

tinkerbell

OP, why the heck would you give them any compensation? The band are absolute idiots to say they didn't have a contract in place. If they weren't so dumb enough to not have a contrary with you, then it's a hard lesson to be learned by them. You don't owe them anything. They can hold onto your deposit but that's that. I would revoke your offer of the few hundred. They don't deserve it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm torn on this. Legally OP owes them nothing if they had no terms regarding cancellation notice. That said it think it's quite immoral to mess the band around like this. I know how far in advance bands are booked so such short notice is unfair. I'm amazed at how low the deposit was and I wonder therefore if this is an experienced wedding band or just a pub band.
The OP has a hard neck but the band left themselves open. At this stage OP just move on. The damage is done and probably lessons have been learned on both sides.

mulamike

Showcase_Cork wrote: »

This is entirely the fault of the band!! A customer has every right to cancel at any time as long as he or she is prepared to forfeit their deposit which this customer clearly is!

It's not an ideal situation for the band granted but I am yet to know of a Professional Wedding Band that requests such a small deposit and fails to respond to the customer in weeks!

It doesn't matter why he decided to cancel, the bottom line is that as morally right or wrong as it is, it's entirely his perogative to do so as a customer.

This is the difference between a pub band trying to be a wedding band and a specialised professional and well managed wedding band. The fault lies completely with the band and not the customer on this occasion.

Ah yes, what were the band thinking cancelling at short notice on a whim, and screwing someone over. Oh wait a minute...

muffler

So here we have a thread that has now generated 300+ posts with a lot of them being not so helpful. Questions and statements flying all over the place regarding IMRO, who should write a cheque to IMRO, do the band pay tax, are they a 4 or 5 piece and then we even had someone sign up today to give their own "personal professional opinion" whatever the hell that's supposed to be.

Anyhow I cant understand why such questions and comments are relevant. The OP has acknowledged that they haven't done the right thing by cancelling the band at "short" notice and has graciously offered a certain amount of compensation. The OP also stated that he would keep us updated so thats good enough for me.

Studioage

I posted earlier but hadn't read many of the previous posts. I didn't realise the band were looking for 2K cancellation fee. I'm a musician who has played about 1000 weddings. Our cancellation fee for 6 weeks notice would be 50% of the original fee minus the deposit. So unless they were originally charging 4050, 2k is too much.

suicide_circus

considering that no cancellation policy or fee was agreed upon, 6 weeks notice and forfeiture of deposit is ample. this business decided that 50euro was a sufficient retainer. I cannot see this "immorally" in the OP's actions that is ruffling feathers here. the inability to answer calls and emails combined with threats shows these clowns are to be avioded.

Hanalei

suicide_circus wrote: »

considering that no cancellation policy or fee was agreed upon, 6 weeks notice and forfeiture of deposit is ample. this business decided that 50euro was a sufficient retainer. I cannot see this "immorally" in the OP's actions that is ruffling feathers here. the inability to answer calls and emails combined with threats shows these clowns are to be avioded.

Don't really see that anyone has their "feathers ruffled", quite simply- they had an agreement, and the OP backed out on it.

OP did screw them over, but given how unprofessional the band has been in more than one respect, I feel that the OP has made the right call here overall. And he hasn't broken a contract so best of luck to him.

Evil_Bilbo

Hey everyone,

still no word.

Just put a few things straight - the band did not ask for €2K cancellation fee - I was initially AFRAID that they would / could (as had no idea about any "contract law" stuff) - others saying "pay the cancellation fee" - the point is that there is none. They sent me a mail looking for "compensation for loss of earnings" - fair enough - I sent them an offer - nothing back.

Btw - the band is not a 4-piece and I dont think accusing mulamike of being in the band is constructive - even if he is, he's entitled to disagree with my POV. That said, I think he is just trolling / trying to put the sh!tes up me by hinting he is in the band and intends to turn up as the wedding.

mulamike

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Hey everyone,

still no word.

Just put a few things straight - the band did not ask for €2K cancellation fee - I was initially AFRAID that they would / could (as had no idea about any "contract law" stuff) - others saying "pay the cancellation fee" - the point is that there is none. They sent me a mail looking for "compensation for loss of earnings" - fair enough - I sent them an offer - nothing back.

Btw - the band is not a 4-piece and I dont think accusing mulamike of being in the band is constructive - even if he is, he's entitled to disagree with my POV. That said, I think he is just trolling / trying to put the sh!tes up me by hinting he is in the band and intends to turn up as the wedding.

You 'll be stressed out enough about the wedding. Everything will be fine on the day.
This is a situation which no one wanted.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Evil_Bilbo

yeah cheers mulamike - I am very stressed as it is, and this situation has had me on edge for a week now. Gonna send another mail to these guys and hopefully get it sorted ASAP.

suicide_circus

Hanalei wrote: »

they had an agreement, and the OP backed out on it.

and as a result, he loses his deposit...the end.

Showcase_Cork

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

yeah cheers mulamike - I am very stressed as it is, and this situation has had me on edge for a week now. Gonna send another mail to these guys and hopefully get it sorted ASAP.

Have you definitely the right contact number and email address? If it's just a pub band then they may well have changed their number and simply not notified you.

I would know large percentage of wedding bands in Cork so if you are stuck for a name/number give me a yell! P

Arbiter of Good Taste

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

yeah cheers mulamike - I am very stressed as it is, and this situation has had me on edge for a week now. Gonna send another mail to these guys and hopefully get it sorted ASAP.

To be honest, I was on the bands "side" insofar as I think what you did was a bit crappy, but my view is you have tried to do the decent thing and I think it's a bit bad form of them not to even acknowledge your email (assuming there is no mix up as to contact details). A short note saying the email is received and they will consider it at least lets you know they have it.

Hopefully it will be resolved soon, you really don't need this coming up to your wedding as it's stressful enough (I know I've just been through it!).

Saying that, if they do show up on the night (and they probably won't!), who knows it, at least people would remember your wedding for years to come. At least it will be unique!

Evil_Bilbo

Thanks man - but I'm replying to an email he sent last friday (They did reply - saying would discuss my offer with the rest of the band). I'm sure he's got stuff going on in his own life, but this waiting is wearing me out!

Ascii

Start a poll on it.

For what its worth I would not be making them any offer. A band that only look for €50 deposit for a €2000 gig come across as being extremely casual to me. Once you can prove you tried to actively cancel them 6 weeks in advance is satisfactory IMO.

When I booked our band we gave €400 euro deposit with the remaining €1700 payable on the night. I would feel it is the bands hard luck not to secure a larger deposit and supply a contract detailing terms and conditions and cancellation charges etc to protect both them and you.

As for him saying that "each band member may come individually looking for loss of earnings" I would tell him f**k off and don't be making idle threats.

Learn from you mistakes in future and go off an enjoy your wedding

Showcase_Cork

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Thanks man - but I'm replying to an email he sent last friday (They did reply - saying would discuss my offer with the rest of the band). I'm sure he's got stuff going on in his own life, but this waiting is wearing me out!

Ah ok, I understand. Well if they want to be a professional wedding band and cater for that market then hopefully for their sake they have learnt a few very valuable lessons from this experience which will stand them in good stead for any future weddings they may book.

This is precisely why it's so important to book a professional specialised wedding band for such a huge event and not four blokes with a mobile!

BenEadir

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Thanks man - but I'm replying to an email he sent last friday (They did reply - saying would discuss my offer with the rest of the band). I'm sure he's got stuff going on in his own life, but this waiting is wearing me out!

Bilbo,

If I was in your shoes I'd sit down, write the following letter, send it to them registered post and forget about them.

"
Mr. XXX (Name of the person you're dealing with)
Name of the Band
Address

Without Prejudice

12/03/2014

Dear Mr. XXXX,

Further to my earlier communications and as a gesture of goodwill I am offering €x in full and final settlement of all outstanding matters between me and the band and between me and all individual members of the band. If this offer is acceptable to the band and to all individual members of the band please cash the attached cheque.

I will not be making any further offers to you.

If this offer is not acceptable to you and you wish to wish to take an action against me for breach of contract please serve the writ on my solicitor XXXX (name of your firm of solicitors e.g Murphy & Co Solicitors) whose address is YYYY. They have been instructed to accept on my behalf.

Yours sincerely,

The OP"

I know from our earlier discussion that you feel bad about cancelling the original band at such short notice for the reason you did and despite the fact you may not be legally obliged to and are unlikely to be taken to court by the band you want to make some contribution to the loss they are going to incur as a result of your cancellation. They haven't helped themselves with their €50 deposit, no written contract and poor communication with you but you nevertheless want to do the right thing and you also want to put this behind you so you can concentrate on all the other headaches that go into enjoying a wedding

If you send the proposed letter and a cheque for whatever it is you want to pay them I feel confident you'll never hear from them again. They too will be analyzing the situation and will be kicking whoever it is that's responsible for the business side of the band. Hopefully they'll reach the conclusion that chasing you on foot of a verbal agreement would be a fools errand and they are better off taking whats on offer and learning their lesson than trying to go after you and ending up with nothing.

It's probably a bit late to be using "without prejudice" etc but that along with the formal language in the letter might give them the impression you've taken a bit of advice and are confident that if they decline your offer that you can defend any action they bring against you.

That's my (final) tuppence worth.

BTW, make sure you scan/photocopy the letter and cheque and staple the registered post receipt to the copies. Put them in your bedside drawer and forget about them. In 10 years time when you have 3 or 4 kids running around the place and you're searching for a lost Nintendo or something you'll come across the letter and yourself and your other half will look back and think, "I can't believe we were so worried about that at the time" :P

Best of luck.

Ben

Hanalei

suicide_circus wrote: »

and as a result, he loses his deposit...the end.

You had a little pop at anyone who criticised the OP for his course of action. There was an evident understanding gap with you for some reason being unable to see why people questioned the OP's actions and I pointed out to you why people were of the opinion that his actions could be considered immoral.

The end.

(How convenient of you to omit the part of my post where I stated he broke no contract and wished him well......)

The end.

metroburgers

BenThere wrote: »

Bilbo,

If I was in your shoes I'd sit down, write the following letter, send it to them registered post and forget about them.

"
Mr. XXX (Name of the person you're dealing with)
Name of the Band
Address

Without Prejudice

12/03/2014

Dear Mr. XXXX,

Further to my earlier communications and as a gesture of goodwill I am offering €x in full and final settlement of all outstanding matters between me and the band and between me and all individual members of the band. If this offer is acceptable to the band and to all individual members of the band please cash the attached cheque.

I will not be making any further offers to you.

If this offer is not acceptable to you and you wish to wish to take an action against me for breach of contract please serve the writ on my solicitor XXXX (name of your firm of solicitors e.g Murphy & Co Solicitors) whose address is YYYY. They have been instructed to accept on my behalf.

Yours sincerely,

The OP"

I know from our earlier discussion that you feel bad about cancelling the original band at such short notice for the reason you did and despite the fact you may not be legally obliged to and are unlikely to be taken to court by the band you want to make some contribution to the loss they are going to incur as a result of your cancellation. They haven't helped themselves with their €50 deposit, no written contract and poor communication with you but you nevertheless want to do the right thing and you also want to put this behind you so you can concentrate on all the other headaches that go into enjoying a wedding

If you send the proposed letter and a cheque for whatever it is you want to pay them I feel confident you'll never hear from them again. They too will be analyzing the situation and will be kicking whoever it is that's responsible for the business side of the band. Hopefully they'll reach the conclusion that chasing you on foot of a verbal agreement would be a fools errand and they are better off taking whats on offer and learning their lesson than trying to go after you and ending up with nothing.

It's probably a bit late to be using "without prejudice" etc but that along with the formal language in the letter might give them the impression you've taken a bit of advice and are confident that if they decline your offer that you can defend any action they bring against you.

That's my (final) tuppence worth.

BTW, make sure you scan/photocopy the letter and cheque and staple the registered post receipt to the copies. Put them in your bedside drawer and forget about them. In 10 years time when you have 3 or 4 kids running around the place and you're searching for a lost Nintendo or something you'll come across the letter and yourself and your other half will look back and think, "I can't believe we were so worried about that at the time" :P

Best of luck.

Ben

Seriously, what a waste of time... OP should ignore any further communication and get on with wedding.

goz83

The band are very slow responding to this. I would have put a "respond by" date in there to get a speedy decision.

2 grand might be the norm for a wedding band, but there is no way I would pay that. You say its not a 4 piece. Are they a 3 piece? They will hardly be identified by number of members. How many hours were they to play?

An mp3 player, a few speakers and a playlist is all you need.

suicide_circus

Hanalei wrote: »

You had a little pop at anyone who criticised the OP for his course of action. There was an evident understanding gap with you for some reason being unable to see why people questioned the OP's actions and I pointed out to you why people were of the opinion that his actions could be considered immoral.

The end.

(How convenient of you to omit the part of my post where I stated he broke no contract and wished him well......)

The end.

I am questioning the idea that the OP "screwed over" the band. they entered into an agreement and a deposit was paid by way of security. the op had a change of heart, backed out and lost the deposit. where is the screwing?

desbrook

suicide_circus wrote: »

I am questioning the idea that the OP "screwed over" the band. they entered into an agreement and a deposit was paid by way of security. the op had a change of heart, backed out and lost the deposit. where is the screwing?

Up until this thread I mistakenly believed that a deposit was by definiton the portion of the fee retained by the service provider if the consumer backed out of the agreement .

So do you by the sound of it .

In fact a deposit is defined as "A sum payable as a first instalment on the purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract, the balance being payable later " by the Oxford English dictionary no less !

A contract has been made - the 50euro was a first instalment and a pledge .

P. Breathnach

If this thing ever got to court (not that I think it will) I don't think that any judge would consider that forfeiture of a €50 token deposit would be sufficient compensation for the band. [In fairness, it seems that OP doesn't think that either.]

In assessing compensation, a judge would take account of how the parties interacted before getting to court, and the band's highly-inefficient communication would probably count against them. Judges expect that in civil matters plaintiffs should take reasonable steps to minimise any loss or damage they suffer.

Equally, in assessing compensation, a judge would likely lean against OP if he played the hardball game that some people here are suggesting.

OP, I believe that you are doing your best to achieve a fair outcome (after having done something stupid!). I think that what you now need is patience, not intemperate advice.

goz83

desbrook wrote: »

Up until this thread I mistakenly believed that a deposit was by definiton the portion of the fee retained by the service provider if the consumer backed out of the agreement .

So do you by the sound of it .

In fact a deposit is defined as "A sum payable as a first instalment on the purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract, the balance being payable later " by the Oxford English dictionary no less !

A contract has been made - the 50euro was a first instalment and a pledge .

While the definition might be that, it is not in context with what most people view a deposit to be. For the vast majority of people, a deposit is paid to hold/reserve goods and services. Without any further conditions being applied, the deposit is lost if the consumer/client backs out and decides to, or cannot complete the transaction.

I am of the opinion, that the definition needs to be updated, as it is in error with common use and understanding of the word "deposit". So who is going to get onto Oxford about this?

Due to the confusion of what a deposit actually is (and i have run into this issue a few times with clients) I have actually stopped using the word. When a client is booking my services, i charge them a "booking fee" that covers me if they decide to be a no show, or mess me about. Its designed only to cover my overheads for that time, but it's not a deposit. Going by the terms and conditions set out by me, the client is paying a "Booking Fee" to reserve an appointment with me. Of course, the fee comes off the cost of the service. The terms say that they can cancel and retrieve their booking fee if not more than a week has passed since making the booking and more than 48 hours are left before their due appointment. People are confused by deposits and often think they can get them back simply because they cancelled the service before receiving it, or decided not to buy goods.

desbrook

goz83 wrote: »

While the definition might be that, it is not in context with what most people view a deposit to be. For the vast majority of people, a deposit is paid to hold/reserve goods and services. Without any further conditions being applied, the deposit is lost if the consumer/client backs out and decides to, or cannot complete the transaction.

I am of the opinion, that the definition needs to be updated, as it is in error with common use and understanding of the word "deposit". So who is going to get onto Oxford about this?

Due to the confusion of what a deposit actually is (and i have run into this issue a few times with clients) I have actually stopped using the word. When a client is booking my services, i charge them a "booking fee" that covers me if they decide to be a no show, or mess me about. Its designed only to cover my overheads for that time, but it's not a deposit. Going by the terms and conditions set out by me, the client is paying a "Booking Fee" to reserve an appointment with me. Of course, the fee comes off the cost of the service. The terms say that they can cancel and retrieve their booking fee if not more than a week has passed since making the booking and more than 48 hours are left before their due appointment. People are confused by deposits and often think they can get them back simply because they cancelled the service before receiving it, or decided not to buy goods.

I agree with you - in my own business I have phased out the simple word deposit and use "booking deposit" and "first payment" because of this general ignorance ( including my own as mentioned ) . However ignorance is no defence in law as I understood .

suicide_circus

desbrook wrote: »

Up until this thread I mistakenly believed that a deposit was by definiton the portion of the fee retained by the service provider if the consumer backed out of the agreement .

So do you by the sound of it .

In fact a deposit is defined as "A sum payable as a first instalment on the purchase of something or as a pledge for a contract, the balance being payable later " by the Oxford English dictionary no less !

A contract has been made - the 50euro was a first instalment and a pledge .

thanks for the education. however, if we want to go the technicality route; no Ts&Cs were agreed, no minimum cancellation notice was agreed, no receipts were issued. and I have to agee with the poster above, the dictionary definition of 'deposit' is not the same as its general accepted usuage.