Cancelling my Wedding Band - HELP!

Seifer

Just saw this on the front page because I'm bored in work but it's insane the attitudes people have towards the OP.
It's like nobody understands what a deposit is. Unless he signed a contract agreeing to different terms then the deposit is the cancellation fee.

Maybe do seek legal advice OP but I doubt that's even necessary if you didn't sign anything.

Enjoy the big day!

Dublinstiofán

Hoppy90 wrote: »

There is a reason why deposits are in place. If they feel that the cancellation of their services requires more money than this initial deposit, than they should review how they conduct business. Not nice for them obviously but it is tough luck. You've cancelled their services and forfeited the money they felt was sufficient in initialing acquiring them.

I'd kindly inform them of this. If they tried to insist on receiving money they should review how they conduct business. (monthly installments, etc) Tough luck on them unfortunately.

Ha that's not the way it works and if this band are professionals they won't be fobbed off with €50 and good luck. From a case I witnessed before and if the bands terms and conditions are correct the OP can expect to be paying at least 50% of the original fee if settled out of court. Or the full fee, compensation and legal fees if settled through the courts provided they have his emails and they can prove the date of original agreement with him.

Change of mind is not a good legal basis for non payment, believe me!

muffler

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

its not as if they were "being sound" by only charging me €50 deposit - if anything it is their fault for not charging more.

So they are to blame because they didnt take enough of a deposit

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

all to have an extra 2 grand debt lumped in at the last fence.

Was this not your choice and your decision?

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

what would you negative nellys think is fair notice then?

You arent really helping yourself with comments such as that.

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Yes - but this is an EXTRA 2000 that I'll have to pay out on top of what I'm paying the other band - we dont have an extra 2000 built into our contingency plans

The first band you booked didtnt put you in this position - you did that all by yourself.

slimjimmc

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

The fact that we booked them a year ago is irrelevant. That was just us being prudent and booking things well in advance. It could have been 3 months ago, it makes absolutely no difference.

Do you ask what their terms and conditions were before you booked?
Did you ask them to put their terms in writing?
You can't put all the blame on them if you didn't ask.

The prudent thing would be to know the terms before you enter in to a contract to the value of €2000.

The best you can do now is negotiate a settlement, you don't want the hassle of dealing with it closer to your big day.

I'd agree €500-750 seems fair.

enda1

muffler wrote: »

The first band you booked didtnt put you in this position - you did that all by yourself.

OP thought that the €50 deposit was what would be the forfeit for cancelling the original band. It is the original band that is stating they want more money so putting them in this position - pulling it out of their hat. Chancers OP, wouldn't bother with them.

chuky_r_law

its up to them if they want to take if further. i'd imagine that if they are only charging €50 as a deposit then they are not very well organized at all and you probably have very little to worry about. maybe it will be a bit of a lesson for them in future to tighten up their terms and conditions

if you are worried about it being taken further then it might be best to try and sort it out now. as others have said here €500 might be enough to settle it. in fairness if they were booked to play in a pub the same night there is no way that they would be paid €2000 for the night. its just because they are playing a wedding that they can charge this

Red Nissan

It is standard practice with almost all services.

Most just don't want the hassle so won't do anything, the amount is small enough to find yourself in Small Claims for, so I'd offer to pay them, maybe they'll take a reduced rate.

It is all because people like the OP think they can chop and change at a whim that we have to have payment in full and in advance and so forth.

irish_goat

Would feel sorry for the band but if they don't check/answer their texts, calls or emails then it's hard to have much sympathy.

Kenny Logins

What is their policy on cancellations, and where is it written down? Why didn't they ask for a proper deposit, one that could be retained in the event of a cancellation, or is €50 enough?

Ash.J.Williams

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

"pay their bills"??

They are a wedding band - incase you didnt know they charge ridiculously high prices for doing 2 hours work per night. One cancellation isnt going to have them out on the street. They are a business. Would you feel sorry for a car dealership if you changed your mind about buying a car? (maybe a bad example as this is a product, not a service)

What about a dentist? if you booked an appointment with them, and then cancelled - would you feel sorry about them missing out on your €100? What if you cancelled at the last minute as something important came up and you couldnt make it? What if they asked you for the full €100 even though they did nothing? Would you pay?

And what if the dentist cancelled on you? (even at the last minute) - how would they compensate you?

you haven't a clue what you're talking about

Stone Deaf 4evr

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

"pay their bills"??

They are a wedding band - incase you didnt know they charge ridiculously high prices for doing 2 hours work per night. One cancellation isnt going to have them out on the street. They are a business. Would you feel sorry for a car dealership if you changed your mind about buying a car? (maybe a bad example as this is a product, not a service)

Sorry, I have to take issue here, as a former band member, you get a lot for your money, a gig isn't just a few hours playing tunes, depending on the venue, you have transport costs, you'll meet people who have special song requests etc. also, the setting up and taking down of equipment can often take over an hour each side. its not a case of 2 grand and everyone goes home with 500 notes in their pocket.

to the OP, cancelling that late is poor form, but the band aren't entirely blameless by not responding to your contact attempts in a timely manner. i.e. within 24 hours.


EDIT: ash beat me to it.

stargazer 68

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

to the OP, cancelling that late is poor form, but the band aren't entirely blameless by not responding to your contact attempts in a timely manner. i.e. within 24 hours.


EDIT: ash beat me to it.

But it wasn't 24 hours - they had 4 weeks to respond and didn't. If the OP was trying to contact them to book them would they be so lax in following up calls, emails, facebook, voice messages?

Boskowski

I think the OP gets a hard time here from the replies.
I think 6 weeks notice is sufficient and if they choose to ignore it then that's their problem.
Also I wouldn't give them more than the deposit which they already have.
Every business out there has to calculate with cancellations, it's part of being in business. Deposits and contracts is how you put a framework / contingency around that.
Any business that fails to put stuff regarding a substantial transaction into writing, takes an informal €50 as deposit and then ignores contact attempts I'd have very little sympathy for.
Screw them, they'll learn from that. If you feel morally obliged give them another €150.

D3PO

Seifer wrote: »

Just saw this on the front page because I'm bored in work but it's insane the attitudes people have towards the OP.
It's like nobody understands what a deposit is. Unless he signed a contract agreeing to different terms then the deposit is the cancellation fee.

Maybe do seek legal advice OP but I doubt that's even necessary if you didn't sign anything.

Enjoy the big day!

I think you need to reread the front page. Most people agree the band are without recourse due to their actions however that doesnt mean that attitude people are taking to expect somebody to behave in a reasonable manner is insane ....

Stone Deaf 4evr

Dovies wrote: »

But it wasn't 24 hours - they had 4 weeks to respond and didn't. If the OP was trying to contact them to book them would they be so lax in following up calls, emails, facebook, voice messages?

Try reading it again.

The band share the blame by not responding to the bookers emails.

goldenhoarde

OP You have booked a band that you were happy with and had no issue with UNTIL you heard a different band and went and booked them without making sure that the original band were properly cancelled.

As has been pointed out if they cancelled on you how would you feel?

You agreed 1 year ago to pay the fee agreed. As of now the band are out of pocket as a) they may have turned down work for a Friday night as you had them booked b) unlikely to be able to get a booking at this short notice.

My wedding band had a 50 euro deposit, didn't hear from them till a week before the wedding and true to their word turned up on the day and played a blinder!

If I was them I'd take you to the SCC (sorry even though its your big day!) because they have done nothing wrong, whereas you changed your mind and Booked a different band without properly cancelling the first one (be that as it may they were tardy replying but until you confirmed it was cancelled it was your responsibility).

Weddings are stressful enough without creating more for yourself.

SwdDub

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

The fact that we booked them a year ago is irrelevant. That was just us being prudent and booking things well in advance. It could have been 3 months ago, it makes absolutely no difference.

Are the band not allowed be prudent also then?

If you don't have an "extra 2k" going spare then why would you go ahead and book another band without getting confirmation that the initial band was cancelled? It's not rocket science.

I'm fairly sure you'll be fine from a legal standpoint. I doubt they have much of a leg to stand on if you can show that you have been consistently trying to contact them for the last month. However what you did wasn't right in my book. Not all businesses are equal. Comparing a wedding band with private consultant to try and justify a late cancellation is like comparing apples and dinosaurs.

Long story short, you never should have booked the second band without absolutely 100% concluding matters with the first band and well you know it.

Howjoe1

What about having a battle of the Bands !!

Evil_Bilbo

DublinStiofan,

seriously man - cop on to yourself!

"do the right thing"??? Let them play? Are you mental? They are not really my favourite people at the moment as well you can imagine - actually the last people I would like at my wedding right now - imagine having them play? How could you enjoy their music knowing they are just there because they threatened to pursue you legally if you didnt let them play.

Also - It would mean cancelling the new band, starting this whole thing off again with them

Wise up.

WildCardDoW

Poor form from the OP, they have bills to pay and you've quite literally screwed them. I don't know if they have much to go on if there's no contract and you've paid a deposit but that doesn't mean that what you've done is in any way right. 6 weeks is farcical for wedding bands who are generally booked months in advance.
You were organized in booking them a year in advance, an entire year where they had to reject gigs for that date if they could prove that they had other attempted bookings in that time they could argue you caused them a loss of earnings.

The comments about their pricing is mean spirited as well, they practice, they sort out their transportation, they have instruments and equipment to maintain and purchase. It's not just the two hours on the night, it's the work leading up to the night that you have to count into this.

There's also the possibility that they've checked with a lawyer themselves and that's what the delay in replying was?

Seifer

D3PO wrote: »

I think you need to reread the front page. Most people agree the band are without recourse due to their actions however that doesnt mean that attitude people are taking to expect somebody to behave in a reasonable manner is insane ....

If everything he said is true in reference to giving 4-6 weeks notice then nothing he did was unreasonable.
He put a deposit on one service, decided to use another and so lost his deposit; end of.

patjack

Evil Bilbo, did you ever consider that the band were actually being nice by just taking €50 deposit? If they had taken €500 you wouldn't have booked another. Get over yourself, the band technically have no recourse but you are morally wrong. Just accept that fact, it can't always be that everyone else is wrong and your always right.

P.S. Take your own advice, cop on to yourself!!

cruizer101

OP I'm on your side, don't know the legalities of it but to my mind the whole point of a deposit is so if you cancel they still have some money.

I also think the fact that you tried to cancel 6 weeks ago and they didn't get in contact shows them in a very bad light.

I might be inclined to give them a bit of money but would be thinking more about 200 which would be 10% of the fee.

Make sure you keep a record of all corespondence in case they do try to follow up in any way though I doubt it.

Evil_Bilbo

For those of you who say that I should have cancelled with the first band before booking the second band - I totally see where you are coming from - hind-sight is a great thing, but to be honest, at the time, I was more thinking about "what if I cancel the first band, and then the second band cannot play"?

I checked and double checked all communications and terms and conditions (of which there were none) to make sure this crap wouldnt happen if I did cancel, and AFTER that I began negotiations with the new guys in relation to cost / set lists etc. Once they were 100% confirmed (they live in london, but are doing an irish tour the week before the wedding), THEN I cancelled the first band - 4 weeks later they decide to unleash this crap. I didnt just do this on a whim - I pored over every detail of it for ages before making my final decision.

Also - when I said they are ridiculously highly paid - I meant this compared to a regular band. Playing in pubs / clubs will give a purse of 500 MAX for night - just because its a wedding, the price is quadrupled. Anyway - that's totally off topic.

Evil_Bilbo

patjack wrote: »

Evil Bilbo, did you ever consider that the band were actually being nice by just taking €50 deposit? If they had taken €500 you wouldn't have booked another. Get over yourself, the band technically have no recourse but you are morally wrong. Just accept that fact, it can't always be that everyone else is wrong and your always right.

P.S. Take your own advice, cop on to yourself!!

Patjack - I know I was in the wrong - I apoligised profusely to these guys for giving short notice (6 weeks) - I said I hate to mess them around, I told them the genuine reason I was cancelling them, and that I had nothing against their music and would recommend them to friends etc etc. What more do you want? Obviuosly they want cold hard cash.

desbrook

I run a business which takes booking deposits initially and "first payments " as work is begun and "balances" when work is completed. Last week I was careless about taking a booking deposit and it cost me around 400€ in lost work. My fault - full stop.

While I feel the OP was a little irresponsible one point has been left out. For the OP booking a band is a rare event and the payment structure in general for bands is not anything she could be expert in . Even if she was - the paynent structure for this band in particular still needed to be clearly explained and documented. Why? Because for the band such practise is "stock and trade " - it is as much part of what they do as playing their instruments. They do it all the time she only does it once therefore it's their responsibility to take a sufficient deposit and set out terms and conditions.

Evil_Bilbo

Update:

I've just received another email from the band leader in the same vaguely threatening tone - basically saying I have to make an offer of compensation by tonight "or else he will pass on my contact details to the band members who will pursue me individually"

here's the jist of the last bit:
"I am of the opinion that they may prefer not to pursue this through legal channels but it will be out of my hands by this evening."

And this is after him taking 4 weeks to contact me - all of a sudden he wants speedy decisions when it suits him.

I've talked to consumer guys again who said I dont have to pay anything, but if I dont they are entitled to pursue me legally for loss of earnings etc. It is a "contract law" case, but thinks as I didnt sign anything or no cancellation fee was ever measured, AND the fact they are keeping my deposit should all stand in my favour.

the last thing I want is bullsh!t like this hanging over my head - I've enough stress going on at the moment (and I got clamped this morning to top it all off! Not having a good week). While I'm tempted to throw a few hundred at this problem to make it go away - 400-500 is really stretching it and would mean cutting down on other stuff (e.g. staying in the hotel the night before, less sponds for the honeymoon etc.), it may just be worth it to make this go away, so we can just forget about it and move on. Its not a pittance to us.

Just as a matter of interest - if I paid these guys a 250 euro deposit would your opinions be any different? A deposit is a deposit - as far as I can see, the amount is completely irrelevant. They maybe being sound only charging 50euro deposit, but it the amount you are paying in the end is the same, what is the point?

Also no one has given me an indication of what they think fair notice would be.

Suppose these points are not really relevant.

As I have to make a decision tonight, could you guys just please give me your opinions on what you think I should do:
A - offer to pay 450 (that makes 500 including my deposit)
B - offer them nothing, say that "we were never informed about cancellation fees, and we paid you a deposit"
C - offer less (around 200?)
D - other

At the moment I'm flipping between all 3 - they all have pro's & con's

Boskowski

I was of the opinion C but after their behaviour I'd opt for 'screw them'.

muffler

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest - if I paid these guys a 250 euro deposit would your opinions be any different?

Even if you had paid a €1000 deposit I would still have the same opinion although I would then be suggesting a much lesser settlement "fee"

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

A - offer to pay 450 (that makes 500 including my deposit)
B - offer them nothing, say that "we were never informed about cancellation fees, and we paid you a deposit"
C - offer less (around 200?)
D - other

Option A (at least)

Stone Deaf 4evr

Evil_Bilbo wrote: »

Update:

I've just received another email from the band leader in the same vaguely threatening tone - basically saying I have to make an offer of compensation by tonight "or else he will pass on my contact details to the band members who will pursue me individually"

I was on the bands side until I saw that. totally unprofessional. 1 point of contact is the usual arrangement. As a matter of interest, regarding your receipt, is there any mention of a balance owed and VAT, or is this all a cash in hand affair?