Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

SpaceTime

It's quite possible it flew for hours without pilots though if the autopilot were engaged and it just maintained an altitude, speed and direction.

Perhaps the turn-around detection was a struggle with the crew?

The confused message coming back that was leaked from the other aircraft pilot that allegedly contacted them could have been a hijacker on the radio pretending to be the pilot too. Maybe mimicking his accent or something hence the slurred nature of it.

wretcheddomain

A lot of people make the assumption that these terrorists can gain access to the flight deck whenever it suits them - but, I fail to see how they could gain access to such a controlled environment...aren't there procedures in place if gaining access to the flight deck to anticipate such interference?

SpaceTime

wretcheddomain wrote: »

A lot of people make the assumption that these terrorists can gain access to the flight deck whenever it suits them - but, I fail to see how they could gain access to such a controlled environment...aren't there procedures in place if gaining access to the flight deck to anticipate such interference?

The door may have been open - these guys seem to have a history of bringing passengers into the flight deck.

Security outside Europe and the US is also a little more like the good old days as there was no perception of a real terrorist risk, so maybe the door was just open.

Someone could have stormed in while the cabin crew were going in and out with food or while one to them was in the bathroom.

Perhaps they threatened to kill a crew member and got the codes? Maybe they were aware of the codes, or might even have been part of the cabin crew team or something who knows!

A lockable door really doesn't mean much. There are loads of scenarios where they could have gained access.

One of them could have been a friendly passenger who wanted to visit the flight deck and was facilitated ?

At the end of the day, it's an aircraft with a door on the flight deck. It's not a prison with massive security procedures.

murphaph

wretcheddomain wrote: »

A lot of people make the assumption that these terrorists can gain access to the flight deck whenever it suits them - but, I fail to see how they could gain access to such a controlled environment...aren't there procedures in place if gaining access to the flight deck to anticipate such interference?

Pilots have to eat/drink/pee as well. The door to the flight deck is regularly opened during flight. On Aer Lingus procedure seems to be (loosely) that a cabin crew member "blocks" the entrance while another cabin crew member goes in with the tea. A determined team of hijackers will not be deterred by such procedures. They just rush the door and walk over the cabin crew member in the process. All they need to do is ensure they have seats right at the front.

wretcheddomain

SpaceTime wrote: »

The door may have been open - these guys seem to have a history of bringing passengers into the flight deck.

Security outside Europe and the US is also a little more like the good old days as there was no perception of a real terrorist risk, so maybe the door was just open.

Someone could have stormed in while the cabin crew were going in and out with food or while one to them was in the bathroom.

Perhaps they threatened to kill a crew member and got the codes? Maybe they were aware of the codes, or might even have been part of the cabin crew team or something who knows!

A lockable door really doesn't mean much. There are loads of scenarios where they could have gained access.

One of them could have been a friendly passenger who wanted to visit the flight deck and was facilitated ?

At the end of the day, it's an aircraft with a door on the flight deck. It's not a prison with massive security procedures.

Wouldn't this assume two things:

- That the terrorists knew in advance that these particular pilots were flying the aircraft.

- That the terrorists harbour weapons which they somehow smuggled pass security.

It would seem extraordinarily lucky for them to get past both these hurdles on this flight. The same is true of cabin crew - they also go through security screening. But maybe these screening procedures are so lax that made this airport the target in the first place.

SpaceTime

Crew and passengers on an aircraft aren't exactly military special operatives, security personal or trained police either.

They're ordinary, normal people just like most of us posting on this forum.

In a hijacking situation these days I would also assume that nobody would cooperate since what happened in 9/11 - You're going to get flown into a building, so threatening to kill people isn't going to get the hijackers very far.

That's why I think it's possible that the hijacking failed entirely and the plane went off flying for several hours without anyone or, perhaps with a passenger or cabin crew at the controls without any radio communication.

I wouldn't be surprised if the hijackers were killed by the passengers/crew but they may have killed or badly injured the pilots.

If I were in that situation, I would honestly think I'd have no choice except to just try and disable the hijackers regardless of what happened to me. I mean, what would be the point in ending up being turned into a missile?!

If someone tried to hijack a plane, they're basically going to get lynched by the passengers. It's as simple as that really.

JONJO THE MISER

Im convinced this plane has been landed on land, and will be hidden for whatever purpose they plan to use it for.
They could of made a makeshift runway in some remote region, this plan was a long time in the making and im sure they have thought of everything.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

going away from terriosts.

news saying that the captains wife and children moved away from home a day before this flight went missing !

Ace2007

from reading this some of the above, the idea of terrorists getting on the plane, would security measures be easy going over there, like getting knives etc on the plane?

wretcheddomain

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

going away from terriosts.

news saying that the captains wife and children moved away from home a day before this flight went missing !

What do you mean by "moved away"? Permanent? Holiday?

It's possible that given the Captain would be away in China for a while, that they decided to go and visit somebody?

SpaceTime

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

going away from terriosts.

news saying that the captains wife and children moved away from home a day before this flight went missing !

That's certainly unusual and could have a lot of implications for his mental state but, at the same time it could also be totally coincidental too. We don't know the background to it and I wouldn't like to speculate too much about it.

However, it would seem unlikely that the copilot would allow anything that bad to happen?!

Could a pilot lock other crew out of the flight deck entirely?

(If so, it proves locking doors internally in an aircraft might be even worse than not having them lockable at all)

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

SpaceTime

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Anything really ... that's the worrying thing.

Assuming their motive was to take the plane, they're not really going to be that worried about the passengers. You're talking about psychopathic individuals here, not your average person who is going to be worried about your wellbeing.

wretcheddomain

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If the terrorists are part of this East Turkestan crowd, then chances are they have little time for civilians; just think of their targeting of civilians at that railway station a few weeks ago. Based on this, they'd kill them as most of them are Chinese and hence considered a legitimate target. The plane could then be used for even more destructive purposes. All of this is conjecture of course.

SpaceTime

Could the flight deck be locked from the inside ?

I mean, preventing other crew from accessing it. So, either a rogue crew member or a terrorist could have been at the controls with everyone else locked out behind a bullet proof door?!

finix

Can somebody comment on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxm1Nv1QEY#t=79

JONJO THE MISER

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hopefully there still alive and just being held.

wretcheddomain

SpaceTime wrote: »

Could the flight deck be locked from the inside ?

I mean, preventing other crew from accessing it. So, either a rogue crew member or a terrorist could have been at the controls with everyone else locked out behind a bullet proof door?!

As far as I'm aware, yes it can. Think of that Ethiopian pilot a few weeks ago, I think he locked the other pilot out from the flight deck from the inside.

finix wrote: »

Can somebody comment on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxm1Nv1QEY#t=79

Yes, I can.

It's extremely frustrating to watch and probably edited for the purposes of goading conversation in a conspiratorial direction.

SpaceTime

wretcheddomain wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, yes it can. Think of that Ethiopian pilot a few weeks ago, I think he locked the other pilot out from the flight deck from the inside.

If that's the case, they really didn't think through these knee-jerk responses to terrorism.

All it would take is one deranged individual to lock themselves into the flight deck and you're in big trouble.

SpaceTime

finix wrote: »

Can somebody comment on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxm1Nv1QEY#t=79

Possibly a JavaScript/AJAX or HTML5 browser rendering error?

wretcheddomain

SpaceTime wrote: »

If that's the case, they really didn't think through these knee-jerk responses to terrorism.

All it would take is one deranged individual to lock themselves into the flight deck and you're in big trouble.

I think this case should prompt a massive overhaul in aviation safety. The plane need not even be recovered to solve some of the existing problems; many of which have been outlined over the course of this thread. Things such as:

• The ability for a pilot or other trained aviator to turn off systems such as ACARS and the transponder to shield his flight path.
  
• The deranged way in which fake passports were employed by several passengers of the aircraft.
  
• The possibility, yet to be confirmed, that individuals gained access to the flight deck with weaponry/or locked themselves into the flight deck.
  
• The inability to sufficiently track an aircraft even when mechanical and/or terrorism issues take over.

If this, and many more, issues are resolved, then at least some good can come from this catastrophe. I think they'll need to act quick because if they don't then other potential terrorists may seek to exploit these and any other weaknesses.

theKillerBite

SpaceTime wrote: »

Could the flight deck be locked from the inside ?

I mean, preventing other crew from accessing it. So, either a rogue crew member or a terrorist could have been at the controls with everyone else locked out behind a bullet proof door?!

This is my new theory. The pilot locked the door when the FO left to go to the toilet. He went rogue because his wife left him taking the children with him. The cockpit door has been hardened since 9/11 and the crew and passengers were unable to break in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrW7Bk8CS8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG46x781H0w

Ole Rodrigo

According to the Atlantic, the likely path of the plane after it disappeared was along the southern red arc , raising the possibility of it running out of fuel after its last satellite ping and crashing into the Indian Ocean.

Why would they head for nowhere though ?



http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/this-map-outlines-the-last-known-position-of-the-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight/284436/

brilou23

theKillerBite wrote: »

This is my new theory. The pilot locked the door when the FO left to go to the toilet. He went rogue because his wife left him taking the children with him. The cockpit door has been hardened since 9/11 and the crew and passengers were unable to break in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrW7Bk8CS8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG46x781H0w

but why didnt any passengers phone any1

wretcheddomain

ror_74 wrote: »

According to the Atlantic, the likely path of the plane after it disappeared was along the southern red arc , raising the possibility of it running out of fuel after its last satellite ping and crashing into the Indian Ocean.

Why would they head for nowhere though ?



http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/this-map-outlines-the-last-known-position-of-the-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight/284436/

If it was along the southern arc, I'd tend to believe the hypothesis that one of the pilots was going rogue by locking himself into the flight deck after the FO went for a session in the lavatory.

If someone is mad enough to disregard the lives of 230+ people, then I don't think we're looking for a rational answer as to why he'd fly south.

SpaceTime

brilou23 wrote: »

but why didnt any passengers phone any1

No signals.

Does anyone know if there was onboard satellite communication for phone service / onboard wifi or anything like that ?

Edit :

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/uk/en/mh-experience/our-fleet/boeing-777-200.html

It would seem they've satellite phone service at your seat in business class.

wretcheddomain

SpaceTime wrote: »

No signals.

Does anyone know if there was onboard satellite communication for phone service ?

I think another poster highlighted the slim chance of any signal for the course of this flight. I would imagine this to be particularly true if the pilot decided to fly along the southern arc.

This door is starting to annoy me though. I think a more efficient system should be in place:

• Instead of delivering foodstuffs and drinks to the Captain/FO, a transfer hatch should be connected such that only one of the doors of the hatch is open at any one time. This would allow the transfer of foodstuffs without the need to open the door.
  
• A small toilet should be made available in the cockpit. As much as it might be a nuisance, you can't have the possibility of one or other pilots locked out of the cockpit. If one of the pilots decided to go crazy, at least the other could permit cabin crew to enter to restrain said pilot while the other declares an emergency and lands safely.

They may not be perfect suggestions but anything is better than the current flawed system.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

wretcheddomain

SpaceTime wrote: »

Are you sure about that... Inmarsat (probably?) phones seem to have been available on aboard.

I'm not entirely sure - there was a dispute about this and I wasn't sure which side was right to be perfectly frank.

SpaceTime

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That would make sense, I have never used on ... although I did accidentally check my voicemail on a Ryanair flight once on their system when they had it up and running. I don't think sat phone service was available during take off and landing, so I assume the pilot must have a switch.