Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Wanderer2010

Something about this whole thing just doesn't add up it's almost like there's a major piece of the puzzle missing and the drip feed of info from Malaysia was a deliberate attempt to muddy the waters whilst ongoing negotiations were taking place higher up the ladder or God forbid are they secretly just praying the plane is never found so that any potential terrorist deals won't be exposed

The moment that flight disappeared off radar the air traffic should have been contacting all nearby radar systems to see where it went why was this not done I haven't read anything on this? Even if they were handing over communication to another jurisdiction somebody somewhere must have noticed that there was no data on the flight and hit the alarm bells. There is something deeply disquieting about the delay in gathering all data from neighbouring radar systems what is it they don't want us to know?

geneva geneva4444

Guys, seeing a lot of comments about the "flawed" procedures re cockpit security. I reckon before we go suggesting changes, we should find the aircraft, conduct the investigation on what went wrong, get the how's and why's sorted and then make recommendations based on those findings. Accident investigations are painstakingly long but extremely thorough and knee jerk reactions before the aircraft is even located is not the priority.
I cannot stress enough just how many aircraft are in the skies 24/7/365. It is absolutely ridiculous how busy our skies are and yet incidents of any kind are so rare. No system is perfect, especially when humans (pilots) are in control. There is a high level of trust being placed in the hands of pilots and controllers alike and I don't see a way of 100% protecting an aircraft from a 'rogue' pilot. Again, I'm not saying that's what has happened in this case, but we need to find out out what happened and how before determining how to prevent it in the future. That's the way air accidents have always been treated and it's the reason the skies are so safe today.


I'm sure many people have seen this before, but it's worth a reminder to some...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gkJTJIPWqo

Blue Whale

If the CIA or whoever knew that the plane was on land and could narrow it down to a smallish area, they wouldn't tell the public now would they? You wouldn't want them to know your onto them?

Duiske

I can't find this info anywhere, so if anyone knows...
Its been reported that the plane accended to 45,000ft for a time shortly after communications were lost. Do they know, or has anyone seen it reported, how long the plane remained at that altitude ?

Spanish Eyes

Please forgive what may be a totally stupid question, but with all that flying around for 7 or so hours incommunicado, is it a miracle the plane didn't stray into the path of another airline flying in the area, and result in mid air collision?

That has been on my kind for while. Seems strange that not one other aircraft saw the plane.

wretcheddomain

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Please forgive what may be a totally stupid question, but with all that flying around for 7 or so hours incommunicado, is it a miracle the plane didn't stray into the path of another airline flying in the area, and result in mid air collision?

That has been on my kind for while. Seems strange that not one other aircraft saw the plane.

I think the plane went at 45,000ft (above standard cruising altitude) to 23,000ft (below standard cruising altitude) then remained at a level unusual in standard procedures, except that for emergencies to avoid other aircraft. Although, I'm open to correction on this. In addition, the chance of a mid-air collision is already very low with sophisticated computer technology informing an aircraft of an impending collision etc.

SimonTemplar

this whole situation is extremely bizarre. I can't see any valid reason for taking the plane so drastically off course only for it to go missing.

- Terrorism: The whole point off terrorism is draw attention to a particular group or cause, but nobody has claimed responsibility

- Pilot suicide: If the pilot wanted to commit suicide using the plane, he would have just ditched the plane, as happened to a previous flight. No need to to fly it to the other side of Malaysia.

- Ransom: Again, no one has claimed responsibility or demanded money.

At this stage, the possibility that seems most likely in my mind is that the plane was hijacked with the intention of using it for terrorism purposes, but a passenger revolt caused the plane to crash into the Indian ocean, like flight 93.

homerjay2005

SimonTemplar wrote: »

At this stage, the possibility that seems most likely in my mind is that the plane was hijacked with the intention of using it for terrorism purposes, but a passenger revolt caused the plane to crash into the Indian ocean, like flight 93.

this, or the plane ran out of fuel before it reached a specific "target".

BorneTobyWilde

finix wrote: »

Can somebody comment on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxm1Nv1QEY#t=79

He did call the jump to 45000 ft well before it was revealed, have to give him that.
The rest could turn out to be true too!. Who knows at this stage anything is possible.

homerjay2005

one thing that doesnt bode well in terms of it being found in one piece on land, that if it did fly for 7 hours, it would have surely been spotted landing as it would have been getting bright at that stage.

Crimsonforce

what about the theory that some of the passengers were working for a US defense contractor and it was taken for the purposes of getting these people..
its a die hard 6 storyline though

Roger_007

This whole incident is beginning to sound like the plot for the next Bond movie.

Call me Al

Well sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
I wonder if the pilot was trying to use up all the fuel? I cant figure a reason why he would do so though.

Wanderer2010

If as has been suggested that it was a terrorist attack gone wrong then why didn't the passengers try and switch back on the transponder and make an emergency broadcast ? If the hijackers were overpowered at some stage and none of the passengers knew how to fly then it's logical to try and tell air traffic their situation. After all if the only thing cutting communication is a switch then turning it back on would restore it surely?

Technoprisoner

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

If as has been suggested that it was a terrorist attack gone wrong then why didn't the passengers try and switch back on the transponder and make an emergency broadcast ? If the hijackers were overpowered at some stage and none of the passengers knew how to fly then it's logical to try and tell air traffic their situation. After all if the only thing cutting communication is a switch then turning it back on would restore it surely?

which switch??

Ace2007

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

If as has been suggested that it was a terrorist attack gone wrong then why didn't the passengers try and switch back on the transponder and make an emergency broadcast ? If the hijackers were overpowered at some stage and none of the passengers knew how to fly then it's logical to try and tell air traffic their situation. After all if the only thing cutting communication is a switch then turning it back on would restore it surely?

Chancers are most would be not know that there is a switch, for example I assumed that every plane in the sky is always tracked, turns out that is not true.

Wanderer2010

Yes but turning them all off and on or trying a few combinations seems logical if they were that determined to save their lives then again it's just pure speculation we just don't know what happened up there seems strange though that over 200 passengers can be completely controlled while terrorists do their hijacking it all points to the passengers just being unaware that they were being shunted out to some island I'm the middle of the Indian Ocean until it was too late

geneva geneva4444

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I think the plane went at 45,000ft (above standard cruising altitude) to 23,000ft (below standard cruising altitude) then remained at a level unusual in standard procedures, except that for emergencies to avoid other aircraft. Although, I'm open to correction on this. In addition, the chance of a mid-air collision is already very low with sophisticated computer technology informing an aircraft of an impending collision etc.

Just a heads up, when the transponder is switched off, the TCAS (Collision Avoidance System) is useless. It works only if both aircraft which come close to each other have their transponders switched on.
So MH370 was flying blind and it was invisible to the TCAS of any other aircraft which crossed it's path.

sopretty

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Yes but turning them all off and on or trying a few combinations seems logical if they were that determined to save their lives then again it's just pure speculation we just don't know what happened up there seems strange though that over 200 passengers can be completely controlled while terrorists do their hijacking it all points to the passengers just being unaware that they were being shunted out to some island I'm the middle of the Indian Ocean until it was too late

I wouldn't go fiddling around with switches in a cockpit of a plane at 30k feet in the feicin air! As far as I'd know, the 'green one' might turn off the plane lol, the 'blue one' might send me into a downward spiral and the 'red one' might activate an eject button and a parachute would activate and eject me from the cockpit! I think you're over-estimating the knowledge us randomers would have of aviation!!

ETA - I probably wouldn't have had a bogs notion that ACARS or transponders or whatever the hell else they have were even turned off!!

Question:

We were initially told that the aircraft had approximately 7 hours worth of fuel onboard.
It now appears, the aircraft actually had more like a minimum of 11 hours worth of fuel onboard.
Would it be common that no-one would know how much each aircraft had onboard at any particular time?

BorneTobyWilde

Could all be a cover up . It could have stayed on its route , and if invisible to other aircraft could have been struck by one and taking out. Or it could have been taking out on purpose as it was deemed a threat.

partyatmygaff

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Yes but turning them all off and on or trying a few combinations seems logical if they were that determined to save their lives then again it's just pure speculation we just don't know what happened up there seems strange though that over 200 passengers can be completely controlled while terrorists do their hijacking it all points to the passengers just being unaware that they were being shunted out to some island I'm the middle of the Indian Ocean until it was too late

Would most passengers even know what a transponder is?

Only people with some interest in aviation and aircraft would know. Even fewer would know how to turn it back on.

SpaceTime

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Would most passengers even know what a transponder is?

Only people with some interest in aviation and aircraft would know. Even fewer would know how to turn it back on.

I'd say the main thing you'd try to turn on is the radio.

geneva geneva4444

Ace2007 wrote: »

Chancers are most would be not know that there is a switch, for example I assumed that every plane in the sky is always tracked, turns out that is not true.

Yea unfortunately, we are currently limited to line of sight when it comes to radar coverage, the curvature of the earth meaning that roughly 250NM (depending on altitude of course) is as far as coverage can extend from any site. But aircraft can still be closely monitored even when they are not within radar controlled airspace.
For example, a standard westbound flight from Europe to the U.S will have it's radar service terminated by Shannon Control at 15Degrees West.(250NM west of Ireland's west coast). From there, they enter oceanic airspace which is controlled by Shanwick Oceanic. Every 5 or 10Deg west, the aircraft must make a position report stating callsign, time over the point, the flight level and the next point they will route to. Shanwick Oceanic is still heavily controlled in this way as aircraft are locked down to a specific speed and flight level to ensure separation is maintained over the ocean until the aircraft make landfall in Canada.

So for example, when EIN123 reports at 54N020W at FL340 at time 12.30, he will then give his next point and estimate eg; 54N030W estimating at 12.50.

So even though the flight is not under radar control, Shanwick can build up a picture of where all the flights are and ensure procedural separation is in place at all times. So it is a form of tracking even though the aircraft is over the Atlantic ocean.

geneva geneva4444

Further to my last post on tracking flights in oceanic airspace, just found this vid on youtube.
Well worth a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9F9ZoovnpM

andy_g

Technoprisoner wrote: »

which switch??

Easy although the photo doesnt include the radio stack in there apart from the very top of one radio.

Paully D

Anyone think the Malaysian government are trying to sully the pilots name (as per their press conference today) because they haven't got a clue what is going on and need to find someway to wash their hands of it?

From watching the BBC News segment just now, it seems that without even finding out whether he had a part to play or not they've (the government) assumed he's already the reason why the plan has disappeared.

Ace2007

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'd say the main thing you'd try to turn on is the radio.

Would you know where the radio is?
Like someone else said, I wouldn't go switching buttons on a plane.

Most people would probably try to get a signal on their phones.

QQ for anyone here, do you switches on the plane do anything significant, if you were to go around turning them on off looking for a radio?

Ace2007

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

going away from terriosts.

news saying that the captains wife and children moved away from home a day before this flight went missing !

just on this, moved - could also me taken captive and they would be released when they got the plane.

2 stroke

Probably too late for this idea here, but it's something that could be prepared for future incidents, working on the mobile phone idea.
I know that what most people sugested about tracking mobile phones won't work. but this might. Unfortunately, any mobile that was powered on, is likely to have a flat batery by now.
Mobile phones "ping" regularly to let the towers know where they are, in case someone rings them. Temporary mobile antennas are often errected for large crowd events, concerts ect. If some of these mobile antennas are attached to search vehicles. They could help locate phones that were out of coverage,but looking for signal.
I know most phones should be turned off during flight, but mine wakes itself for alarm events. I'm sure I'm not the only idiot that has a phone going off, when I'm sure I turned it off going into a meeting.

Silverbling

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I can't understand the motive for the hijacking if that's what has happened in this case? If there were illegal passport holders and wanted to divert the plane away isn't that an extremely complex and complicated event to plan out, from disabling communication systems to controlling terrified passengers not to mention how on earth were they going to get away with it knowing such an event would attract worldwide attention.

If it was suicide bomber terrorists what group did they represent and what point were they making- Malaysia and China aren't the first countries to come to mind when thinking of extremist terrorist actions. Have there ever been terrorist hijackings of planes and ships in this region?

If the pilot was going to commit suicide for some bizzare reason why bring so many people with him and how would he have masterminded the event from cutting off contact to keeping everyone in the dark unless he had help from the crew or co pilot ?

The biggest question is how on earth a plane can drift for hours without being picked up to any significant extent by any radars which would have flagged this plane drifting for hours with no purpose? If nothing else it exposes how limited aviation radar is, surely when air traffic lost contact they straight away asked for nearby radars to monitor for contact. So many mysteries around this event. Sadly I fear the passengers are dead and the plane is on the Indian Ocean but we are still nowhere nearer finding out the why..

Maybe it is a simple thing like ...........look we hi jacked a plane........now you all look very stupid