Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

eatmyshorts

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

God that looks so easy to do. Even I could do it!

Is it prone to being accidentally switched to the off position I wonder? Not saying prof pilots would be careless like that, but in an emergency situation with lots of things going on?

Surely there must be more to it than turning a knob?

Does an alarm sound when it's switched off?

Actually, there is no OFF position. It's just STANDBY.
On the 777 turning the transponder to standby brings up an amber TCAS OFF advisory on EICAS. There is no aural warning.

Ace2007

regarding the pings, if there anyway to stop these?

for example can we rule out that the plane landed someone, got refuelled and then flew off somewhere else without being on any radar - highly unlikely.

The other idea I was thinking - which is more plausible - The pilot was forced against his will to fly the plane to some destination, and his family held against their will, but that something went wrong and the place crashed into the ocean, and no group wants to take responsibility for it to bring attention to themselves.

Lantus

Since 2001 it is difficult to think of a reason why anyone would need to turn off a planes transponder. In fact you would think that as well as ensuring a fail safe system that cannot be accessed or tampered with it would be improved to help identify a planes location even more accurately. Even over the US the official timeline for 9/11 states that military jets did not know where the airliners were exactly due to the fact they had switched off their transponders.

Black boxes also seem to be no longer fit for purpose. Unless the data can be found and accessed quickly, or even found at all. A much more sturdy device that streams data to satellites and secure servers on a live basis as well as a back up that can at the very least float and even jettison itself from an aircraft prior to impact to ensure t does not sink along with it.

It seems worrying that a plane can be so easily 'lost' and the combined might of several nations are just left scratching their heads.

There could be a very simple explanation to this but whatever the outcome surely there needs to be some very simple and immediate changes to plane technology to ensure that planes can never 'disappear' again. I don't understand why 13 years after 9/11 we are in the same situation with planes disappearing after turning off their transponders and heading off on their merry way for reasons yet unknown.

eatmyshorts

Lee H Gee wrote: »

Quick question to any who may know... and I apologise if I lack the most fundamental understanding of how it all works...

What is the procedure if you have a fire on board? Would you ever increase altitude to provide less oxygen?

In a 777 freighter aircraft, yes that is the procedure for a main deck fire. Not on a pax one though.

JONJO THE MISER

Xpro wrote: »

Now the US suspects that plane could have landed somewhere and it could possibly be turned into a cruise missile ( loaded with bombs) for future attacks.

That is surely what is being done, do people honestly think that it was hijacked to be flown into the sea, all that effort just to crash it, i highly doubt it.

LordSutch

aphex™ wrote: »

It's weird no submarines or US acoustic ocean sensors picked up a large crash into the sea.

They should get a list of all submarines and sensors, plot their location/times when the plane disappeared and rule out a radius around them all in the ocean.

Taken from Post#2479 posted by Castor 1:

"Chinese state news agency Xinhua is reporting tonight that a Chinese seismology and research group detected an “earthquake wave” in waters between Malaysia and Vietnam at about 2.55am local time last Saturday.

“The sea floor event could have been caused by the plane possibly plunging into the sea,” the group told Xinhua.

“The strength of the earthquake wave indicates the plunge was catastrophic.”

The area is 116 km northeast from where contact with MH370 was lost and is considered a non-seismic region."

Full post here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89457830&postcount=2479

SpaceTime

At least the Chinese are sharing any data they have by the looks of it.

Lee H Gee

eatmyshorts wrote: »

In a 777 freighter aircraft, yes that is the procedure for a main deck fire. Not on a pax one though.

Thanks for that.

Couple more... sorry!

Could an emergency situation make this a good idea on a passenger plane?

Would there be any plausibility in fire being able to slowly spread, knocking out the 2 comms systems without the pilot being aware in time?

I just find the idea of a rogue pilot so bizarre... there must be other explanations surely

Ace2007

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

That is surely what is being done, do people honestly think that it was hijacked to be flown into the sea, all that effort just to crash it, i highly doubt it.

Surely....

If this idea is plausible, when this plane goes back in the air will it start pinging again, and if so how long does it take the detect. is it a case that engine comes on, and the authorities can say "hey, there's that missing plane"?

It's not the first time a plane has been stolen, I'm sure drugs must be imported by planes as well, maybe there were drugs or something else on board.

Spanish Eyes

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Actually, there is no OFF position. It's just STANDBY.
On the 777 turning the transponder to standby brings up an amber TCAS OFF advisory on EICAS. There is no aural warning.

Thanks for that. Am still puzzled though. See the pic in my post no. 3166 (if you can br ar€ed!)..

The only dial I can see there with an off switch is the white one on the bottom RHS Is that the Transponder?

Silverbling

ITV news conference has just said the search area has expanded widely to include land along with the sea.

It is not clear if they are talking crash wreckage or an intact plane.

Auldloon

LordSutch wrote: »

Taken from Post#2479 posted by Castor 1:

"Chinese state news agency Xinhua is reporting tonight that a Chinese seismology and research group detected an “earthquake wave” in waters between Malaysia and Vietnam at about 2.55am local time last Saturday.

“The sea floor event could have been caused by the plane possibly plunging into the sea,” the group told Xinhua.

“The strength of the earthquake wave indicates the plunge was catastrophic.”

The area is 116 km northeast from where contact with MH370 was lost and is considered a non-seismic region."

Full post here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89457830&postcount=2479

And there we have our answer I'd say.

Spanish Eyes

Auldloon wrote: »

And there we have our answer I'd say.

So is there any SAR in that precise region?

Don't expect you to answer...it's just a general question!

adamski8

Auldloon wrote: »

And there we have our answer I'd say.

I think this was ruled out. It was discussed here a good few days ago. A crashed plane wouldnt cause a sesmic event and that the region is a very sesmic region

Silverbling

Sorry another question after reading a previous post.

Is it possible to fly a plane on auto pilot with no pilot?

If they are planning on using it as a weapon is there a way they can pre programme the plane to take off and land without a human at the controls?

I know nothing about auto pilot but have seen before when a captain had a heart attack that someone, somewhere remotely took over the plane, I can't remember the details about it.

Wanderer2010

Jesus, the whole thing just makes my head hurt, I have been following every single update, news bulletin and report on this mystery since it started and Im still scouring the forums and reading the papers every day, and Im not normally a person who bothers with the news at all but this case has me transfixed. The more I hear about it, the harder it gets to solve..

I tell you this, I would kill to have been a fly on the wall as flight MH370 ascended into the air and into the realms of modern mystery, just to know what the hell happened. :eek:

Flippyfloppy

Time for dash cams, or cockpit cams??

BorneTobyWilde

I fear it is where they first suspected it to be, but just a lil bit south west of that. They really only searched north east and east of where it went off air.
All a shambles I fear.

Ace2007

One more thought, if they say it flew for 7 hours after, could they not try to re-create the flight, if the think it is on land, would it be hard to just fly over these lands and have a look, I'm sure there are fighter jets that could have a look, or would that be dangerous in some areas?

LordSutch

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Time for dash cams, or cockpit cams??

Time for the transponder 'off knob to be removed.

pugsnotdrugs13

zoe 3619 wrote: »

wondering what information the black box contains,and should it be found will we get any answers?we already seem to know about altitude and should the plane be found we'll know about direction.adoes black box for instance record conversation in the cockpit?

As far as my knowledge goes, the black box does record conversations in the cockpit, communications between the cockpit and ATC, other planes etc. Seen a documentary when the Polish President was killed in an air accident over land, bllack box was recovered and all information was available through it.

pugsnotdrugs13

Ace2007 wrote: »

One more thought, if they say it flew for 7 hours after, could they not try to re-create the flight, if the think it is on land, would it be hard to just fly over these lands and have a look, I'm sure there are fighter jets that could have a look, or would that be dangerous in some areas?

I'm not being sarcastic, but I'd imagine the military jets wouldn't be welcome over such areas in the UAB such as Afghanistan.

symbolic

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I tell you this, I would kill to have been a fly on the wall as flight MH370 ascended into the air and into the realms of modern mystery, just to know what the hell happened. :eek:

I reckon that the people on the flight would trade places

lintdrummer

Silverbling wrote: »

Sorry another question after reading a previous post.

Is it possible to fly a plane on auto pilot with no pilot?

If they are planning on using it as a weapon is there a way they can pre programme the plane to take off and land without a human at the controls?

I know nothing about auto pilot but have seen before when a captain had a heart attack that someone, somewhere remotely took over the plane, I can't remember the details about it.

Absolutely not. An aircraft can be programmed to follow a flight plan at a set altitude and it can carry out an auto land at a suitably equipped airfield. But all of this still requires pilot input. The aircraft cannot be programmed to change altitude at set intervals. It can descend automatically to a runway once it intercepts the glide slope on an ils approach (providing it was already flying low enough to intercept the glide slope). It cannot carry out an automatic take off.
And the story you heard isn't true because it is impossible to remotely control a standard airliner. You could set up a whole load of robotics to physically move a control column remotely but you would be restricted by range and need to fly next to the aircraft as was done on that channel 4 programme where they crashed a 727.

Mountainsandh

Considering the number of suicide bombers these days, there isn't really a need for that anyway, I'd say most terrorist organizations would be able to find at least one person in their ranks willing to fly it on a suicide mission, as history has sadly shown.

2 stroke

2 stroke wrote: »

Those pings to Immarsat came as no suprise to me & I'll bet that Boeing can tweak those engines in the air. I wouldn't be suprised if every electronic device on those planes would be programmed to look for updates regularly.

I posted this earlier, and there have been a few comments, of course the word Boeing is a typo, and should have read Rolls Royce. And I don't mean that they would tweak the engines in the air, just that it would be possible.

Dapics

The plane could have depressurized due to a generator failure and diodes burning out. If the generator was faulty and the diode/s burned out, then This would cause a voltage surge and could have knock out the communications (ACARS) whilst leaving the radio on. (Would explain the difference in times when the two communications equipement were turned off).
Combine this would an electrical explosion/fire and you have depressurisation of the plane due to a hull rupture, causing everyone to pass out/die from hypoxia (Lack of oxygen) and the radio being knocked out.

With no pilots, The plane would continue to climb to 40,000 plus feet before stalling and then going to a lower altitude before running out of fuel and falling into the ocean. (All planes have an air ceiling which limits how high they can go). The fact it was pinged by satelites for up to 5 hours after communications were lost lends credence to this theory.
How could it have continued to climb??? : throttles on the 777 are fully digital and the engines are supposed to attempt to develop full thrust. If it was facing west when this was happening then it would go out into the indian ocean.

Just a theory that ties up all the details.

Also look up Helios Airways flight 512... some aspects of this scenario have occured before.

And.... Egyptair flight 667 where an electrical fire ruptured the hull of the plane.

off topic for a moment, but thought some of you might be as interested as I was to learn that wasps can bring a plane down. Never before did I know that. Ive heard of birds being a danger, but wasps?? The things Ive learned since this Malaysia Air flight went down..


http://www.computerweekly.com/news/1280096929/Crash-One-Birgenair-Flight-301

and from WIKI

''On September 12, 1980, Florida Commuter Airlines flight 65 crashed en route to Freeport, Bahamas killing all 34 passengers and crew. The cause was determined to be due in part to a malfunctioning air speed indicator caused by mud dauber nests that were improperly cleared from the aircraft's pitot tubes.''

Also..

''On February 6, 1996, Birgenair Flight 301, a 757 jet flying from Puerto Plata in the Dominican Republic, crashed into the Atlantic Ocean. All 13 crew members and 176 passengers were killed. A key part of the accident was a blocked pitot tube, a component which measures outside air pressure through small tubes on the outside of the aircraft and displays this as the plane's speed. Although the tubes were never recovered from the ocean floor, it was discovered that the plane had been sitting on the tarmac for almost 3 weeks with the pitot tubes not covered as they should have been. Investigators believe a colony of Black and yellow mud daubers got into the tube and built their cylindrical nests inside, causing faulty air speed readings which were a large part of the crash. This species also brought down another plane in Washington during 1982.''

pclancy

Jake1 wrote: »

off topic for a moment

:eek:

pclancy

pclancy wrote: »

:eek:

:eek::o sorry, remove if you want Mr PClancy