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Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

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    #3272
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    sopretty wrote: »
    Can anyone with a better memory/googling skills than me, give the precise times of the following?

    Last transmission of ACARS data: 1.07AM (I think?)
    Last contact with ATC: 1.17AM (I think?)
    Confirmed time transponder turned off: ??????

    Sky journos seem to be exploring the notion that things had potentially already kicked off, prior to final contact with ATC?

    Edit - I see Calina has gotten there before me.

    I think the fact that it disappeared at a 'hand over' point is not a coincidence. Just my opinion though.


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    #3273
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    The CP made the last transmission. At that point the ACARS had already been switched off.

    One things for certain is that (excluding gross error) atleast the CP knew that the ACARS system was not operational when he calmly spoke those words, correct?

    It's perfectly logical to interpret that as either:

    1. the CP/Pilot had taken the flight off track themselves for their own demises.

    2. Someone was forcing the CP to fly the plane in such a manner.

    So to speculate on the role the pilots had in this is surely allowed, as with no evidence to point to anything concrete yet speculating is all one can do.


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    #3274
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    sopretty wrote: »
    Can anyone with a better memory/googling skills than me, give the precise times of the following?

    Last transmission of ACARS data: 1.07AM (I think?)
    Last contact with ATC: 1.17AM (I think?)
    Confirmed time transponder turned off: ??????

    Sky journos seem to be exploring the notion that things had potentially already kicked off, prior to final contact with ATC?

    Edit - I see Calina has gotten there before me.

    Not sure you got an answer but 1.21am the transponder was turned off. 14 mins after ACARS and shortly after last transmission so like you said.


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    #3275
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    irishmover wrote: »
    The CP made the last transmission. At that point the ACARS had already been switched off.

    No, from the press conf. this morning, they don't know when the ACARS thing was turned off. All they know is that it transmitted its last data at 1.07 (?). It wasn't due to transmit anything again, for a further 30 minutes. So, there is a window of 30 minutes, during which time it was switched off.


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    #3276
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    I have a sinking feeling that the truth behind this incident will never come out and be buried amidst a confusing mass of theories from the Malaysian side and the US side- the search will be scaled down and after a few weeks eventually called off and the world will move on and forget as the latest story pushes this to the end of the ladder and in the end this will just be dismissed as "location unknown somewhere in the Indian Ocean"...if thats the case then it scares the hell out of me that more than 200 people can just completely vanish and neither technology nor skill can locate them in 2014.

    It will probably turn up though eventually. It may just take months or even years before wreckage is finally located.

    I think it's highly unlikely that it landed somewhere.

    One thing that was reported and I heard no more about was that it has a large quantity of Lithium Ion batteries in a freight container in the hold.

    I wonder if a very intense fire in the hold could have caused a loss of communication systems or major electrical problems yet left the plane flying on autopilot?

    Fumes could have even killed the passengers and crew leaving the aircraft just locked into a heading.


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    #3277
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    pugsnotdrugs13 wrote: »
    I was thinking this for a few days; everyone's talking about the possibility of it being the pilot who hijacked the plane but not many are considering the possibility of it being the co-pilot

    I have considered at this stage: Iranians, stowaways, randomers, passengers, Captain, First Officer, cabin crew, elves and pixie-heads!


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    #3278
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    Nitpick....

    They are called the Captain and the First Officer. The only people who refer to the flight crew as "the pilot and co-pilot" are the uninformed media.


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    #3279
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    eatmyshorts wrote: »
    Nitpick....

    They are called the Captain and the First Officer. The only people who refer to the flight crew at "the pilot and co-pilot" are the uninformed media.

    And meself! :P


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    #3280
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    So anyway, the pilot and co-pilot eh?


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    #3281
    Colser
    Registered Users Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭Colser


    sopretty wrote: »
    I have considered at this stage: Iranians, stowaways, randomers, passengers, captain, first officer, cabin crew, elves and pixie-heads!
    Did you miss the post about the bees earlier ..you cant leave them off your list:D


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    #3282
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    I know the mobile phone issue has been discussed at length and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but is there anything, and by that I mean even a tiny shred of information, that the mobile phone networks could to to shine a light on the last known location of the phone? Any tracing mechanism or pings given off by any phones that were switched on at the time of hijack/hypoxia etc? Many phones can pinpoint your exact location at the touch of a button, cant the networks lend any help here?


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    #3283
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    eatmyshorts wrote: »
    Nitpick....

    They are called the Captain and the First Officer. The only people who refer to the flight crew as "the pilot and co-pilot" are the uninformed media.

    Terminology and industry jargon don't make a story accurate.

    The media is communicating to the general public not to the aviation industry. It uses terms that are widely understood.


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    #3284
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    irishmover wrote: »
    So anyway, the pilot and co-pilot eh?

    So, does the pilot fly and the copilot do the radios? What about on the turn around when they swap roles. But the captain is always the captain but is sometimes not the pilot....... I'm so confused.

    Wait I know, the captains always the captain and the F/O is always the first officer - now I'm not confused:D


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    #3285
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    I know the mobile phone issue has been discussed at length and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but is there anything, and by that I mean even a tiny shred of information, that the mobile phone networks could to to shine a light on the last known location of the phone? Any tracing mechanism or pings given off by any phones that were switched on at the time of hijack/hypoxia etc? Many phones can pinpoint your exact location at the touch of a button, cant the networks lend any help here?

    One of the team at the press conf. this morning said that nothing had been confirmed to them from phone providers. Now, I'm not sure whether he meant that they hadn't asked them, or that he meant that they had confirmed that they couldn't confirm anything if you get me? I can't remember his precise words on the issue nor the precise question he was asked!


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    #3286
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Terminology and industry jargon don't make a story accurate.

    The media is communicating to the general public not to the aviation industry. It uses terms that are widely understood.
    The general public is widely stupid, but there's no reason to lower to their level.


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    #3287
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    So, does the pilot fly and the copilot do the radios? What about on the turn around when they swap roles. But the captain is always the captain but is sometimes not the pilot....... I'm so confused.

    Wait I know, the captains always the captain and the F/O is always the first officer - now I'm not confused:D

    Aha! So I get you. Pilot is the term for the 'driver' of the plane at any given time, which could be either the Captain, First Officer or indeed the Auto-Pilot?


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    #3288
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    So, does the pilot fly and the copilot do the radios? What about on the turn around when they swap roles. But the captain is always the captain but is sometimes not the pilot....... I'm so confused.

    Wait I know, the captains always the captain and the F/O is always the first officer - now I'm not confused:D
    The Captain is always the Captain and the First Officer is always the First Officer.
    Either could be actually flying the aircraft, with the other performing the non-handling tasks. The industry term for the one flying is Pilot Flying (PF) and for the other, Pilot Monitoring (PM).


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    #3289
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    sopretty wrote: »
    Aha! So I get you. Pilot is the term for the 'driver' of the plane at any given time, which could be either the Captain, First Officer or indeed the Auto-Pilot?
    No, I've explained in the post after yours.


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    #3290
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Bit of humour from Waterford Whispers, obviously drawn from the events in Asia.

    http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/03/17/stolen-boeing-737-found-burnt-out-on-waterford-council-estate/


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    #3291
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Terminology and industry jargon don't make a story accurate.

    However, a lack of it does make the story inaccurate. Like the constant reference to timings in local time. Local time is meaningless in aviation, everything should be properly referenced to Zulu time.
    Also, all the talk about ACARS. That's an "umbrella" term for many systems that function through it. Things like DCL, PDC, ADS, CPDLC, SITA, company datalink etc. Taking about "ACARS" being off or on in general is just not specific enough to enable a true and accurate story.


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    #3292
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    eatmyshorts wrote: »
    The general public is widely stupid, but there's no reason to lower to their level.

    The general public call it 'GPS' but I know, from my degree and background that GPS is incorrect. GNSS would be the correct term, yet whenever the media refer to positional systems they simply state 'GPS' as the general public would not completely understand GNSS.

    However, I wouldn't call these people stupid. It's the media's fault for generalizing things. Your first point about it being Captain and First officer should have sufficed, instead of calling the general public stupid, which is rude.

    However I gave myself a facepalm as really I should have known it was Captain and FO. I've watched enough Aircrash investigation and listened to my friend who is training to be a pilot enough to know it's Captain/FO.


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    #3293
    pugsnotdrugs13
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭pugsnotdrugs13


    eatmyshorts wrote: »
    The general public is widely stupid, but there's no reason to lower to their level.

    There's no need to be so insulting eatmyshorts.


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    #3294
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    pugsnotdrugs13 wrote: »
    There's no need to be so insulting eatmyshorts.

    George Carlin put it a good way....

    "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."


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    #3295
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    eatmyshorts wrote: »
    George Carlin put it a good way....

    "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

    Are you not the average person?


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    #3296
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    Are you not the average person?

    Eh, no.


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    #3297
    Ole Rodrigo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭Ole Rodrigo


    One thing is for sure, the longer this goes on the less likely it is that they are parked somewhere. Aside from the planning and logistics of keeping 230 odd people fed and looked after, someone somewhere would notice or get word out..or something.


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    #3298
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    eatmyshorts wrote: »
    The general public is widely stupid, but there's no reason to lower to their level.

    Having expert knowledge of a highly specialised area, means nothing more than the fact that you have expert knowledge of a highly specialised area. To jump to the conclusion that this fact means that the general public who are not in possession of such expert knowledge are therefore stupid, is an illogical unproven assumption, and therefore; your assertion above, is by my standards, a stupid one. ;)


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    #3299
    pugsnotdrugs13
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭pugsnotdrugs13


    eatmyshorts,

    You are wrecking our buzz. Quit the negativity please.

    Anyway guys, back on topic,
    Is it just me or does the information released from the Malaysia Press Conferences seem way too vague? I think they're definitely holding a lot of information from us. In fairness, it took them a week to tell us that it was the First Officer who communicated with ATC "All right, good night" and not actually the Captain which they told us first? Like come on, details like that shouldn't be taking a week to be discovered? As if the conversations and radar details hadn't been thoroughly investigated ASAP.


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    #3300
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    This is a crazy theory my brother told me down the pub after having a few- but you'd wonder - he reckons there was a few guys on that plane the Chinese govt wanted to off.

    I said it was ridiculous - why kill a whole load of innocent people and cause such a fuss ??

    He told me about Cl. Gadaffi having a plane with 200+ people on board shot down to kill 2 ministers.

    Personally I think it would be easier just to try and assassinate them "normally" on the ground - but maybe if the people were really hard to corner ??


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    #3301
    irishmover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭irishmover


    sopretty wrote: »
    Having expert knowledge of a highly specialised area, means nothing more than the fact that you have expert knowledge of a highly specialised area. To jump to the conclusion that this fact means that the general public who are not in possession of such expert knowledge are therefore stupid, is an illogical unproven assumption, and therefore; your assertion above, is by my standards, a stupid one. ;)

    Wouldn't call him an expert. If he was he'd be paid to give his view points by the media.

    He's knowledgeable which is great for us stupid average people but that's about it.


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