Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

BigCon

Off topic - I expect to read accurate, detailed, aviation specific information when I visit this forum. Like others my knowledge of aircraft communication systems is limited but I've learned lots by following this thread and reading posts from people in the know (like eatmyshorts etc). I would expect the nonsence theories or someone asking for the thousand time "why can't they track it using mobile phones" type posts to be posted on the After hours thread, not here...

Back on topic - what will happen if the plane cannot be located, does the investigation just wind down like a missing persons investigation and we'll never know what happened?

SpaceTime

Basically just accept that the media is fumbling their way around. They may also end up with experts who turn out not to be as well expert as they first thought.

That's just the nature of rolling news. Many stations also do not pay for guests time as they consider it 'cheque book journalism', so it's often hard to source guests for something this technical.

They'll often go to other journalists (self promoting their publications) … academia or public bodies etc or just anyone willing to comment ex pilots etc

Unfortunately, most stations have quite limited budgets and have to fly by the seat if they're pants on these kinds of stories.

They're more likely to be staffed for economic, business and political stories which is why they'll automatically go for the political terrorism angle.

BorneTobyWilde

Morpork wrote: »

I want my skipped beat back ya bastard!!

Sorry, it's just that every night I go to sleep and expect to awake to some new info. It's dragging on at this stage.
There is simply no clue as to where it is. It's a unique situation

Penny Tration

BigCon wrote: »

Off topic - I expect to read accurate, detailed, aviation specific information when I visit this forum. Like others my knowledge of aircraft communication systems is limited but I've learned lots by following this thread and reading posts from people in the know (like eatmyshorts etc). I would expect the nonsence theories or someone asking for the thousand time "why can't they track it using mobile phones" type posts to be posted on the After hours thread, not here...

It's exactly these kind of posts that prevent me from posting or asking a question.

I've been following this thread from page one, and have learned a bit from it (the word 'transponder' meant nothing to me before this). However, I know nothing about aviation, and I won't pretend to.

But what may seem like a stupid question to many here (such as tracking using phones) isn't a stupid question to many others.

Expert or no, people want answers. It's a huge thing that's happened, and despite what you may consider to be ridiculous theories or stupid questions, there are plenty of people with no aviation knowledge who are interested enough in this case to avoid the piss take mentality of AH.

Didn't realise being well read and experienced in all things aviation was a prerequisite to posting in this forum.

Connorzee

BigCon wrote: »

Back on topic - what will happen if the plane cannot be located, does the investigation just wind down like a missing persons investigation and we'll never know what happened?

It becomes a permanent fixture on this diagram with the 82 other planes that have "vanished"

http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2014-03-13/vanishing-planes-mapped-since-1948.html

mickdw

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Eh, no.

I find your arrogance unbelievable.
Fair enough, you are a commercial pilot. You are trained to preform those duties. That does not make you super human or in some way better or more intelligent than even the average.
of the few commercial pilots I've known, the ones I went to school with were of very average intelligence. The common denominator across all those I've known has been the ability of the persons family to fund the training.

eatmyshorts

mickdw wrote: »

I find your arrogance unbelievable.
Fair enough, you are a commercial pilot. You are trained to preform those duties. That does not make you super human or in some way better or more intelligent than even the average.
of the few commercial pilots I've known, the ones I went to school with were of very average intelligence. The common denominator across all those I've known has been the ability of the persons family to fund the training.

Personally, I don't give a rats ass how you find my arrogance.
As to your highly researched common denominator...It's lucky I got a fully funded cadetship.

bumper234

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Personally, I don't give a rats ass how you find my arrogance.
As to your highly researched common denominator...It's lucky I got a fully funded cadetship.

Are you saying that co-pilot is the incorrect term and would never be used by aviation personnel?

Happyman42

Other than knowing the correct terminology and the mechanics of how an aircraft works (which can be understood by most people of average intelligence) what extra knowledge would a 'pilot' have of the possible explanation of this incident?
If anything, this incident is revealing exactly what aviation 'experts' don't know about the possibilities.

wretcheddomain

This thread has been diverted for several pages now over a pilots indignation at non-pilots using the word co-pilot.

What an irrelevant load of sh1te.

kona

Happyman42 wrote: »

Other than knowing the correct terminology and the mechanics of how an aircraft works (which can be understood by most people of average intelligence) what extra knowledge would a 'pilot' have of the possible explanation of this incident?
If anything, this incident is revealing exactly what aviation 'experts' don't know about the possibilities.

I think your under estimating the mechanics of how a aircraft flys, different planes have different designs and a pilot/engineer would have a much better understanding of the possible outcomes of this.
Infact a prime example is some of the crap posted here, most the people who know what they are talking about have left this thread because of it.

sopretty

wretcheddomain wrote: »

This thread has been diverted for several pages now over a pilots indignation at non-pilots using the word co-pilot.

What an irrelevant load of sh1te.

Was your choice to use the word 'diverted' as opposed to 'derailed' a deliberate decision, to ensure the aviation experts could understand your post?
They could have thought you were talking about trains!

fr336

< Bang head here >

wretcheddomain

sopretty wrote: »

Was your choice to use the word 'diverted' as opposed to 'derailed' a deliberate decision, to ensure the aviation experts could understand your post?
They could have thought you were talking about trains!

To satisfy the pilots and ATC's - this thread has been delayed.

Is it possible to get back to MH370 now everyone? Maybe pedants should go to AH until further notice.

Happyman42

kona wrote: »

I think your under estimating the mechanics of how a aircraft flys, different planes have different designs and a pilot/engineer would have a much better understanding of the possible outcomes of this.
Infact a prime example is some of the crap posted here, most the people who know what they are talking about have left this thread because of it.

We all (or most of us) know the type and range of the aircraft, what equipment it had etc. and I see few people disputing those facts in their speculation.
It's the arrogant, 'we are the only ones with the knowledge' and 'this is an experts only forume' type posts that are causing the reactions.
Just my opinion.

sopretty

wretcheddomain wrote: »

To satisfy the pilots and ATC's - this thread has been delayed.

Is it possible to get back to MH370 now everyone? Maybe pedants should go to AH until further notice.

Yes, back to MH370. I know they are now concentrating their investigation on an aircraft maintenance engineer. Does anyone know his nationality and/or the airline he worked for?

billie1b

eatmyshorts wrote: »

The general public is widely stupid, but there's no reason to lower to their level.

Seen as you don't need any type of secondary or third level education to be a pilot, on your basis the general population would include pilots, so your calling yourself stupid, good lad

ProfessorPlum

wretcheddomain wrote: »

This thread has been diverted for several pages now over a pilots indignation at non-pilots using the word co-pilot.

What an irrelevant load of sh1te.

Actually, I've no great problem with using the term 'co pilot'. Most understand it to mean the guy in the right seat. The bigger issue is the reference to the 'pilot' which the press seem to think infers the captain. It does not. Both pilots on the flight deck are rightly referred to as the 'pilot', while only one is the captain, or the commander. Many non aviation types out there assume the 'pilot' (meaning captain) flies the plane, and the 'co pilot' does, well, other stuff.

It's also heartening to see that many of the non regulars on this particular thread don't seem to appriecite at all much of the detailed technical and operational explanation that has been given by aviation professionals and enthusiasts here.

kona

Happyman42 wrote: »

We all (or most of us) know the type and range of the aircraft, what equipment it had etc. and I see few people disputing those facts in their speculation.
It's the arrogant, 'we are the only ones with the knowledge' and 'this is an experts only forume' type posts that are causing the reactions.
Just my opinion.

Well it is a aviation forum I'd expect to be able to read a thread with proper knowledge here not the scutter it's descended into. After hours has a thread too which is about the same level as here. Pilots and engineers and people who have a interest in plane do have more knowledge than most of the people posting now.

Compare the fist third of the thread to the last third.

ProfessorPlum

billie1b wrote: »

Seen as you don't need any type of secondary or third level education to be a pilot, on your basis the general population would include pilots, so your calling yourself stupid, good lad

Find me one current commercial pilot in this country who doesn't have a secondary education and I'll believe you.

Spanish Eyes

Would any of you, crew or pax be worried about flying after this?

I wouldn't necessarily be terrified, but a bit... Eh, wary is the word.

But even if I am wary, what can "I" do realistically? Stay at home?, ask the captain to make sure he doesn't hit the transponder off switch accidentally? Come on!

We owe our safe passage to flight and cabin crew every day. We just sit there on the bus with no idea what goes on up in the pointy end.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.

And although a little off topic, forgive me....but during that big storm there recently, I was tracking the planes trying to land at Dublin Airport and the valiant efforts of those flying the planes made me realise just how skilled flight crew are.

Hope im not banned for off topic!

sopretty

Ok, again, I'm confused, and would appreciate some expert knowledge.

Flight took off at 12.41am

Satellite transmission at 8.11am (still with 5 hours worth of fuel left).

Actually, I'm starting to see the relevance of Zulu time now!

Why are these times not adding up?

Happyman42

kona wrote: »

Well it is a aviation forum I'd expect to be able to read a thread with proper knowledge here not the scutter it's descended into. After hours has a thread too which is about the same level as here. Pilots and engineers and people who have a interest in plane do have more knowledge than most of the people posting now.

Compare the fist third of the thread to the last third.

I'd put most of that down to the confusing nature of the information filtering out and the lack of it.

I asked for expert interpretation about the shadow plane theory a while back, apart from one self admitting non-expert, nobody else has commented on it instead they have gotten involved in a spat about the forum and who it is for.

sopretty

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'd put most of that down to the confusing nature of the information filtering out and the lack of it.

I asked for expert interpretation about the shadow plane theory a while back, apart from one self admitting non-expert, nobody else has commented on it instead they have gotten involved in a spat about the forum and who it is for.

Well, I've asked twice now about the timings and the fuel on-board and I've also been ignored, so don't feel left out!

pugsnotdrugs13

Can we get a mod around here to straighten things up? Painful to read when looking for updates.

Captain Chaos

sopretty wrote: »

Ok, again, I'm confused, and would appreciate some expert knowledge.

Flight took off at 12.41am

Satellite transmission at 8.11am (still with 5 hours worth of fuel left).

Actually, I'm starting to see the relevance of Zulu time now!

Why are these times not adding up?

From what I can gather it had around 5 hours fuel at the time it dropped off civilian radar screen but the very last satellite transmission was some hours after that so it would not have had much fuel if it was still flying at that stage.

ProfessorPlum

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'd put most of that down to the confusing nature of the information filtering out and the lack of it.

I asked for expert interpretation about the shadow plane theory a while back, apart from one self admitting non-expert, nobody else has commented on it instead they have gotten involved in a spat about the forum and who it is for.

Maybe you want to specify the type and extent of expert qualification you'd accept from someone giving an answer? Personally I wouldn't like to chance it. You've already told (/ implied )a current 777 captain you don't consider him to be any more an expert than the journos on sky news.

But yeah, I agree with the first bit

SpaceTime

pugsnotdrugs13 wrote: »

Can we get a mod around here to straighten things up? Painful to read when looking for updates.

I think you need to set up a technical discussion and chat thread. This works well on the weather forum for example.

mickdw

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Personally, I don't give a rats ass how you find my arrogance.
As to your highly researched common denominator...It's lucky I got a fully funded cadetship.

Its lucky you did with your attitude.
I never claimed to have highly researched this, only commenting on the number of people Ive known who went the route of commercial pilot training funded directly by family. The only point I was trying to make is that a person of very very average intelligence can and often do become successful airline pilots. The only differentiating factor between them and the general population is availability of family funding and as such they are not super human or of super intelligence.

sopretty

What I'm assuming, until I'm corrected is the following:

Flight take-off 00.41
Satellite signal 08.11 (therefore, 7.5 hours of flight).

And they are now searching a 5 hour flight fuel area.

So, the plane must have had 12.5 hours worth of fuel on board?

Why were we told initially that the aircraft would contained only 7 hours worth of fuel?