Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Gerry T

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wil

robbieVan wrote: »

He was quoting a report or is 7 years old.

Thanks:rolleyes:.
I can well understand why the mods are exasperated

It wasn't a typo. I typed it in full knowledge of what I was typing

And now it is as clear as pretty much everything to date.
Except that 10 days later there was some official confirmation, NOT from the Malaysians, but the White House.
Someone forgot about "need to know", so I guess forced their hand.

notmymark

My personal opinion at this moment in time is that there was some sort of major technical failure (possibility caused by a fire) which started a chain reaction of events, no doubt which include some mishandling by the flight crew (most air accidents have some element of crew mistakes / mishandling) that ultimately ended up with it crashing into the ocean. The reason it hasn’t been found yet is because we have been looking in the wrong place.

Not the most conspiracy theory idea so far but the most logical in my mind at least.

Galway K9

notmymark wrote: »

My personal opinion at this moment in time is that there was some sort of major technical failure (possibility caused by a fire) which started a chain reaction of events, no doubt which include some mishandling by the flight crew (most air accidents have some element of crew mistakes / mishandling) that ultimately ended up with it crashing into the ocean. The reason it hasn’t been found yet is because we have been looking in the wrong place.

Not the most conspiracy theory idea so far but the most logical in my mind at least.

What about the black box? Almost Indestructible and floatable and last signal reported altitude at 20000ft with no issues?

wil

notmymark wrote: »

My personal opinion at this moment in time is that there was some sort of major technical failure (possibility caused by a fire) which started a chain reaction of events, no doubt which include some mishandling by the flight crew (most air accidents have some element of crew mistakes / mishandling) that ultimately ended up with it crashing into the ocean. The reason it hasn’t been found yet is because we have been looking in the wrong place.

Not the most conspiracy theory idea so far but the most logical in my mind at least.

Perhaps this could be discussed by a pilot because it appears that this theory is discounted by the number of apparent interactions needed to make the plane change directions so many times.

My immediate question in relation to the above theory is

"Is it possible to enter several waypoints so that the plane can then make several changes of direction without any subsequent pilot intervention?

elmolesto

wil wrote: »

My immediate question in relation to the above theory is "Is it possible to enter several waypoints so that the plane can then make several changes of direction without any subsequent pilot intervention?

Yes, that's what the autopilot is designed to do.

Silverbling

Or ask the pilots is it possible to hi-jack a plane and land it somewhere remote if you have the skill but not the required training.

Could a military pilot have done it?

I asked earlier if a pilot could land a plane they were not trained on and got the answer "possibly but not safely" which makes sense but we are all thinking with Western minds not I have flown helicopters in a war zone so a passenger plane should be easy.

Could some individual with flight training have given it a go and pulled it off? The thought of it is mind boggling!

wil

elmolesto wrote: »

Yes, that's what the autopilot is designed to do.

Yes, but I'd like to confirm that is what will happen.
Enter waypoints, plane proceeds as programmed, pilot intervention no longer required.
What's the endpoint? Why wouldn't they enter all waypoints at the beginning?

One argument counters another and nobody thinks of putting them together before answering the question.

notmymark

Galway K9 wrote: »

What about the black box? Almost Indestructible and floatable and last signal reported altitude at 20000ft with no issues?

You and me must be reading very different news… they haven’t found the black boxes.

wil wrote: »

Is it possible to enter several waypoints so that the plane can then make several changes of direction without any subsequent pilot intervention?

It has been my understanding that there has been no evidence that the aircraft flew via any waypoints once it lost contact. There was one report of such a few days ago but The Guardian and many other major new agencies have disagreed with it.

sopretty

wil wrote: »

Yes, but I'd like to confirm that is what will happen.
Enter waypoints, plane proceeds as programmed, pilot intervention no longer required.
What's the endpoint? Why wouldn't they enter all waypoints at the beginning?

One argument counters another and nobody thinks of putting them together before answering the question.

So, if there was no human in charge of flight while reaching the way-points, a human had at least entered 2 way-points, off the beaten track?

notmymark

The strangest thing for me is that fact that not one of the passengers took out their mobile phones and tried calling or texting a family member or loved one. I take this to mean one of two things…. Either they were all rendered unconscious or died near instantly or that they didn’t realise there was a problem until it was too late.

wil

If there are so many procedures and emergency procedures that pilots are trained to do, why is there so little clarity as to what the pilots did in light of these apparent unusual direction changes and time involved.

Every pilot who has been on mantras "Aviate, navigate, communicate"

Potentially 8 hours of navigation leads me to question the complete lack of communication, even by flying over or near to some military air base to attract attention to an onboard catastrophe so that at least if there was to be a ditching, the pilot would have considered the SAR attempts.

Ace2007

notmymark wrote: »

The strangest thing for me is that fact that not one of the passengers took out their mobile phones and tried calling or texting a family member or loved one. I take this to mean one of two things…. Either they were all rendered unconscious or died near instantly or that they didn’t realise there was a problem until it was too late.

How do you know they didn't try this, as others have said probably wasn't a signal up there.

HeidiHeidi

notmymark wrote: »

The strangest thing for me is that fact that not one of the passengers took out their mobile phones and tried calling or texting a family member or loved one. I take this to mean one of two things…. Either they were all rendered unconscious or died near instantly or that they didn’t realise there was a problem until it was too late.

I've followed this thread all the way so far, but haven't posted until now.....

but this one caught my attention.

Surely mobile phones wouldn't work at X000 feet? Never mind over whatever ocean they were/might have been over at the time? My mobile coverage dies when I go about two miles offshore in a boat!

notmymark

wil wrote: »

If there are so many procedures and emergency procedures that pilots are trained to do, why is there so little clarity as to what the pilots did in light of these apparent unusual direction changes and time involved.

Every pilot who has been on mantras "Aviate, navigate, communicate"

Potentially 8 hours of navigation leads me to question the complete lack of communication, even by flying over or near to some military air base to attract attention to an onboard catastrophe so that at least if there was to be a ditching, the pilot would have considered the SAR attempts.

There is little clarity as we don’t know what happened. How can we know what procedures when we don’t know what they were reacting too. The initial change in direction has been well documented that it could have been to fly to an alternative airport for an emergency landing. After that it’s a little more speculative…

Over such a long period of time the lack of communications means either whoever was flying the aircraft didn’t want to communicate (hijacking theory), couldn’t communicate via loss of communications system (fire theory) or couldn’t communicate via loss of consciousness (crew lost consciousness at some stage of the flight and the auto-pilot flew the plane the rest of the time).

Spanish Eyes

I wonder is it wise to keep all the families cloistered together like this.

Maybe it was a good idea at the start, but it might be counter productive now. Things are getting heated amongst a group with common purpose, and with no results.

Was the same thing done WRT the Air France Plane?

Maybe it's because so many of the pax were Chinese. I dunno.

notmymark

Ace2007 wrote: »

How do you know they didn't try this, as others have said probably wasn't a signal up there.

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Surely mobile phones wouldn't work at X000 feet?

You would be amazed how often there is coverage on a plane... Anyway assuming they left their phone on any SMS would resend when there is a single. Not to mention if any of them had GPS activated on their phone.

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Never mind over whatever ocean they were/might have been over at the time? My mobile coverage dies when I go about two miles offshore in a boat!

Of course its not going to work out in the middle of nowhere but the initial part of their detour took them right over land. i.e. they didnt realise they detoured or didn't think it was serious enough to make contact with family.

notmymark

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I wonder is it wise to keep all the families cloistered together like this.

It normally cant be avoided. The families tend to flock and stay at the centre of operations so they can feel close to whats happening and be among the first to get any updates. Also the fact that people grieving like to grieve with others.

Spanish Eyes

notmymark wrote: »

It normally cant be avoided. The families tend to flock and stay at the centre of operations so they can feel close to whats happening and be among the first to get any updates. Also the fact that people grieving like to grieve with others.

Yes, I really feel for them. In all the speculation, it's easy to forget that hundreds of families have lost loved ones...as far as we know.

I suppose I was thinking will it result in total frustration and mob anger eventually? And who could blame them really?

Did this happen with AF disaster?

sopretty

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Yes, I really feel for them. In all the speculation, it's easy to forget that hundreds of families have lost loved ones...as far as we know.

I suppose I was thinking will it result in total frustration and mob anger eventually? And who could blame them really?

Did this happen with AF disaster?

I think it's important that they have peer support. Vital even. Nobody but someone going through this, can understand how they feel.

notmymark

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Did this happen with AF disaster?

Similar yes. Families definitely gathered together and no doubt supported each other. The major difference there was that they located some of the wreckage and confirmed a crash after a few days. Although it was several years before the final report was published.

wil

notmymark wrote: »

It has been my understanding that there has been no evidence that the aircraft flew via any waypoints once it lost contact. There was one report of such a few days ago but The Guardian and many other major new agencies have disagreed with it.

That is not the understanding of the BBC reporters in situ and Malaysian authorities refused to clarify.
And tbh I couldn't give a dmn what the newspapers report, they are equally culpable to the misinformation.
But of course the official source, and yes therein lies much of the problem.
And meanwhile everyone is trying to get a scoop from any ex-FIB (typo intended) insider they can.
Even the BBC are saying "source" as their source.:(
Its clandestine journalism at it's worst.
Is everyone really so bothered about their military "secrets", really??? they are the only ones who care, self important paranoia. Read all about it on FB or twitter with maps and photos instead.
Meanwhile 239 peoples lives mean what? /rant

Anyway if the satellite information and leaked maps are to be believed, it very definitely took different routes to the original planned, apparent along various waypoints.

wil

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Yes, I really feel for them. In all the speculation, it's easy to forget that hundreds of families have lost loved ones...as far as we know.

I suppose I was thinking will it result in total frustration and mob anger eventually? And who could blame them really?

Did this happen with AF disaster?

They knew exactly where AF went down, it took so long because it was so far out to sea and so deep. What they didn't know for 2 years was why.

Here, nobody knows anything for sure except it is STILL missing.
And so many contradictions and apparent lack in the SAR management.

Five Lamps

I can't understand why the families of the passengers are staying in Malaysia at this time.

While it is a genuine mystery as to what has happened to this flight, the Malaysian authorities have not managed the situation well. This is only leading to further stress for the families.

At this point, the investigation leadership should pass from Malaysia to an independent organisation.

BorneTobyWilde

Terrorists are getting great ideas from all these theories .

ted1

passengers would have had no reason to use their phones. If the pilot was to blame. Then the passengers may have not known they were off course. The pilot could have bought more time by appologising for the delay. Were in a holding pattern as theres something wrong at the airport.

lifeandtimes

this is apparently an artists impression of what it would look like if you could see mobile signal(not sure of colour spectrum but give an idea) not sure there would be signal on the plan unless the plane itself was connected to a satellite or a passenger had a world usable phone connected to satellite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_phone...the opinion i like is that belive nobody phones(assuming they had signal) due to them not knowing what was going on before it was too late,the plan was flying at 2 in the morning their time after all

wil

ted1 wrote: »

passengers would have had no reason to use their phones. If the pilot was to blame. Then the passengers may have not known they were off course. The pilot could have bought more time by appologising for the delay. Were in a holding pattern as theres something wrong at the airport.

Out of 239 passengers there would have been some not in flight mode and undoubtedly at least one sending text messages / attempting to check Fb. Chinese/Malaysians just as vociferous phone users as here.

Supercell

Good God, I hope this isnt true - http://airnation.net/2014/03/19/370-pakistan/ A landing in Pakistan doesnt bode well for the passengers if the Taliban nutters have their hands on it, never mind anyone else they decide to fly it into.

sully2010

Malaysia confirms it has new radar data on missing plane flying over another country (but won't say where for security reasons)

http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=247111:msian-govt-confirms-it-has-new-radar-data-on-mh370-flying-over-another-country-but-refuses-to-say-where&Itemid=2#axzz2wSMl12sn