Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Flippyfloppy

SpaceTime wrote: »

As far as I am aware, it's usually in the tail section of most aircraft.

It's contained in the aircraft itself, so finding it relatively intact would make retrieval a lot easier.

Basically it's a very, very, very robust orange box. It's not actually black at all.

Here's hoping it has remained with the body of the aircraft, if this is indeed the aircraft.

Hyzepher

I still find it very hard to believe that an incident occurred on the plane that caused a total blackout in terms of communication, allowed the crew to set a different course, then somehow incapacitated the crew yet allowed the plane to fly on for hours - undamaged - until it ran out of fuel.

The only thing that would remotely make sense is for some type of toxic smoke that originated from a fire etc that didn't damage the integrity of the plane. I find it unlikely for that to be true for a full 10hrs of flight time

notmymark

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Apologies for asking a novice question, but does the black box remain with the plane or does it detach? If the plane remained mostly in tact would it be easier to retrieve the black box?

They remain with the plane (well at least remain with the part of the plane which they are contined). If I am not mistaken they are located in the rear of a 777.

SpaceTime wrote: »

Basically it's a very, very, very robust orange box. It's not actually black at all.

There are actually 2 orange boxes, one for flight data one for cockpit voice. If I am not mistaken the 777s FDR records data for 24 hours and the CVR for 2 hours (open to be corrected on that).

murphaph

notmymark wrote: »

There are actually 2 orange boxes, one for flight data one for cockpit voice. If I am not mistaken the 777s FDR records data for 24 hours and the CVR for 2 hours (open to be corrected on that).

If that's correct then there may be nothing of any use on the CVR at all (if they ever find it)

homerjay2005

statement from pilot leading the search and rescue.

"unfortunately due to weather conditions and light, we were unable to locate any wreckage or debris".

booth70

homerjay2005 wrote: »

statement from pilot leading the search and rescue.

"unfortunately due to weather conditions and light, we were unable to locate any wreckage or debris".

The relatives of the passengers have had enough misinformation about this flight from Day 1......hopefully the Aussies have got this right and it's not another wild goose chase

notmymark

murphaph wrote: »

If that's correct then there may be nothing of any use on the CVR at all (if they ever find it)

Again I am open to be corrected on that… I read it on a news website but can’t remember which one.

It used to be only 30min when they used HHDs but this was increased due to better technologies. Also it was a recordation after a failed hijacking / suicide attempt on a plane in which the culprit planned to fly the plane as normal for 30mins after he took over control of the flight deck so not to be discovered.

It may be possible that data recovery methods could extract sections of speech. If they are no voices / actions heard on it at least that will tell the investigators something. Either way I can imagine the investigators report will include a recommendation to make this longer, we certainly have the technology to do it.

Spud83

booth70 wrote: »

The relatives of the passengers have had enough misinformation about this flight from Day 1......hopefully the Aussies have got this right and it's not another wild goose chase

At least the Aussies are handling the information better, with clear and precise details coming out in a timely manner. No chance for rumours and misinformation to spread.

bkehoe

Its worth considering that with regard to the CVR and FDR that depending on the nature of what actually happened the aircraft, neither may have any or much useful data.
If there was some catastrophic event in the avionics bay, the data feeds and perhaps even the power connections to the CVR/FDR could have been cut before any subsequent reactions were forthcoming from the crew.

This has happened before in certain accidents that involved fires, the SAA 747 that crashed from a cargo fire is one that comes to mind as the fire burned through the cables.

MonkieSocks

If it is the missing plane, it could have happened something like this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

intellectual dosser

I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm not convinced by the satellite pictures. I know experts have looked at them, and arguably have better quality images than have been released, but I just cant distinguish the supposed debris. Have a look again and imagine the arrows and scale indicators aren't there.

fits

Intellectual dosser, did you look at video on guardian live feed? Its a lot clearer on there and they refer to multiple pieces in area. Don't think there will be any further news today though. Might take a while to find

check_six

notmymark wrote: »

If I am not mistaken the 777s FDR records data for 24 hours and the CVR for 2 hours (open to be corrected on that).

Anyone be able to confirm if the CVR is voice activated? As in, does it record the silences in between conversations, or does it leave them out?

notmymark

check_six wrote: »

Anyone be able to confirm if the CVR is voice activated? As in, does it record the silences in between conversations, or does it leave them out?

Yes it recordes everything (I think). I know they have used them in the past to determin if buttons have been pressed, etc. even when no one was talking.

bkehoe

check_six wrote: »

Anyone be able to confirm if the CVR is voice activated? As in, does it record the silences in between conversations, or does it leave them out?

Its continuous real time, no voice activation. The audio is useful for other things such as engine sounds, sounds of switches, etc.

booth70

http://www.theguardian.com/uk

Norwegian cargo ship has reached the area.....hopefully we'll some news soon for the sake of all the relatives

irishmover

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm not convinced by the satellite pictures. I know experts have looked at them, and arguably have better quality images than have been released, but I just cant distinguish the supposed debris. Have a look again and imagine the arrows and scale indicators aren't there.

It's not as simple as they stare at images all day and then say 'this looks like debris'.

I've used statistical analysis software in satellite imagery while studying in Ireland and it had capabilities back then to classify vegetation, buildings, cars etc... This wasn't a very expensive piece of software either (it was Uni afterall).

What these guys would be using is software with the same principle but for maritime. This is coming from the Geospatial intelligence office. I'm sure it's a mixture of both worlds. So it would be capable of classifying waves, sea life and debris from metallic objects.

So the imagery is being classified (categorized) by this software and then human interaction further investigates what the software is flagging. These two would have had the most probability factor of being aircraft debris.


Some light reading

http://wiki.landscapetoolbox.org/doku.php/remote_sensing_methods:object-based_classification

intellectual dosser

fits wrote: »

Intellectual dosser, did you look at video on guardian live feed? Its a lot clearer on there and they refer to multiple pieces in area. Don't think there will be any further news today though. Might take a while to find

I did watch a video on the Guardian website, I take it it's the one you're referring to. I guess if they have multiple smaller pieces of debris surrounding the two bigger pieces then thats all the evidence it needs, it's just that the pics aren't clear to my untrained eyes.

booth70

From the Guardian....

A Norwegian car carrier Hoegh St. Petersburg has reached the area where the possible debris was spotted

Hoegh is due to give a media briefing at 1330 GMT.

irishproduce

David Wright (@WrightUps)
March 20, 2014
Alas our 9 hour trip aboard the P8 - including 3 hours of intensive searching did NOT turn up any evidence of debris...

Looks like nothing there unfortunately

Happyman42

irishproduce wrote: »

David Wright (@WrightUps)
March 20, 2014
Alas our 9 hour trip aboard the P8 - including 3 hours of intensive searching did NOT turn up any evidence of debris...

Looks like nothing there unfortunately

Bit early to be throwing in the towel

fits

irishproduce wrote: »

David Wright (@WrightUps)
March 20, 2014
Alas our 9 hour trip aboard the P8 - including 3 hours of intensive searching did NOT turn up any evidence of debris...

Looks like nothing there unfortunately

. There is something there. Whether its theplane or not is another question.

Nibs05

Looks like its been called off for the day due to light fading

irishproduce

fits wrote: »

. There is something there. Whether its theplane or not is another question.

Sorry guys, I should have qualified that by mentioning "for today".
Would it not be better for them to park one of those aircraft ships nearby and just fly off that when they want to do a search?

Nibs05

irishproduce wrote: »

Sorry guys, I should have qualified that by mentioning "for today".
Would it not be better for them to park one of those aircraft ships nearby and just fly off that when they want to do a search?

Thats the plan, but it will take 40-60 hours for them to arrive at the location, this will allow helicopters to search the area,

sopretty

irishproduce wrote: »

Sorry guys, I should have qualified that by mentioning "for today".
Would it not be better for them to park one of those aircraft ships nearby and just fly off that when they want to do a search?

I think they are going to. But it's a long journey from wherever the ship currently is, to that location (days I think).

wil

This makes for unsurprising reading
and goes a long way to identifying some of the source of frustration in this SAR effort.
Current north south corridors search area was first identified Mar 11.
Took up to 4 days to act on satellite info.
Wall St Journal

Nibs05

Using af447 as a example sky used this as the plan of action,

Spotter planes search area
If debris found, sonar ships scan area
If Sonar ships pick up debris then send submarine sonar drones
If submarine drones scan and pick up anything they send unmanned subs with cameras

Could take months as the debris field could have moved with currents etc

wil

Looks like the Norwegian ship is the only one in the area and likely to be the only one for maybe 2 days.
Lonely planet indeed.

Norwegian car carrier Hoegh St. Petersburg was on its way from Madagascar to Melbourne.

"We've got a request from Australian authorities to search the area, and we will assist as long as needed," said Kristian Olsen, a spokesman at Hoegh Autoliners.

A big slow ship with limited search ability - binoculars

Tabnabs

wil wrote: »

Looks like the Norwegian ship is the only one in the area and likely to be the only one for maybe 2 days.
Lonely planet indeed.

Norwegian car carrier Hoegh St. Petersburg was on its way from Madagascar to Melbourne.

"We've got a request from Australian authorities to search the area, and we will assist as long as needed," said Kristian Olsen, a spokesman at Hoegh Autoliners.

A big slow ship with limited search ability - binoculars

The only people "on the ground" for several hundred kilometres and you're complaining about their lack of SAR gear They aren't operating in isolation you know. At the end of the day, pretty much all technology will be limited to the ability of the Mk1 eyeball to interpret the information gathered. We should be grateful the company agreed to divert the ship when requested two days ago.