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Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

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    #4142
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    sopretty wrote: »
    I'm suspicious that they don't actually know how much fuel was left on board, or indeed, how much fuel was onboard at take-off!

    As far as I understood it, the fuel load information was released the other day. I believe it was 49,100kg.

    I am absolutely certain they knew how much fuel was on board. It's one of the biggest operational costs for most airlines and Malaysia was already loss making. There is no way in hell they weren't managing fuel costs to the extent of knowing what was in the plane.

    Where the variation comes into it is how the plane was flying at any given time. This has an impact on fuel efficiency. Researchers do not know how the plane was flying - they currently don't even know where the plane went after it left Malaysian radar cover for certain. They have no chance of knowing how fast or how slowly it was using fuel.


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    #4143
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    tippguy2 wrote: »
    Well, I think some authority knows something, I can't understand why a sat image that was discovered nearly a week ago was only revealed a day or two ago, I would bet my bottom dollar that the Aussies have done a recon maybe last sun or mon and indentified something from the plane, surely they would have checked this out immediately ?

    Sat images would have to be reviewed first. It's not an instantaneous process.


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    #4144
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    I don't think they like to admit that their military radar monitoring is sh*te!



    I know :(

    That's why I think it is unwise to dismiss the Northern arc theories just yet.

    I think they know what fuel was on board all right, but what with fuel use increasing or decreasing with altitude and speed, that must complicate calculations greatly.


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    #4145
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Calina wrote: »
    As far as I understood it, the fuel load information was released the other day. I believe it was 49,100kg.

    I am absolutely certain they knew how much fuel was on board. It's one of the biggest operational costs for most airlines and Malaysia was already loss making. There is no way in hell they weren't managing fuel costs to the extent of knowing what was in the plane.

    Where the variation comes into it is how the plane was flying at any given time. This has an impact on fuel efficiency. Researchers do not know how the plane was flying - they currently don't even know where the plane went after it left Malaysian radar cover for certain. They have no chance of knowing how fast or how slowly it was using fuel.

    Oh I understand that. I've read enough about Ryanair's fuel policy!

    What I am thinking, and yes, it is a large leap towards conspiracy theory, is that when they investigated the ground staff, would it be possible that they too were suspicious about the actual amount of fuel onboard?
    Perhaps this is something that would be obvious to both of the pilots - hey - why have we this much fuel?
    I'm just wondering whether the plane may have had more fuel than was recorded as being onboard. Can you tell exactly how much as a pilot?


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    #4146
    dees99
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭dees99


    Paddywiggum wrote: »
    im not entering further discussions with you as i find your theory idiotic.

    Paradox! ��


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    #4147
    fr336
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    Is it two weeks tomorrow?!


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    #4148
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    fr336 wrote: »
    Is it two weeks tomorrow?!

    I think on account of the time difference it is just gone two weeks since it vanished.


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    #4149
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    sopretty wrote: »
    Oh I understand that. I've read enough about Ryanair's fuel policy!

    What I am thinking, and yes, it is a large leap towards conspiracy theory, is that when they investigated the ground staff, would it be possible that they too were suspicious about the actual amount of fuel onboard?
    Perhaps this is something that would be obvious to both of the pilots - hey - why have we this much fuel?
    I'm just wondering whether the plane may have had more fuel than was recorded as being onboard. Can you tell exactly how much as a pilot?

    Just for info, a copy of the tech log containing fuel onboard and any uplift would be left with the dispatcher.
    The final fuel figure is also printed in the Loadsheet, again a copy of which is left with the dispatcher.

    In the preflight briefing the fuel figures would have been discussed by both pilots. Fuel cannot be "secretly" carried as it affects the aircraft weight. The aircraft weight is entered in the FMS to calculate takeoff thrust, if an underweight is entered it will use less thrust for takeoff - with the possibility of not getting off the ground:eek:


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    #4150
    sully2010
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭sully2010


    Last 54 minutes of communication from MH370 for anyone interested:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10714907/Revealed-the-final-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html


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    #4151
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    sully2010 wrote: »
    Last 54 minutes of communication from MH370 for anyone interested:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10714907/Revealed-the-final-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html

    Did they get it wrong by misinterpreting the final flight altitude as 350 rather than the 250 ATC told them? :confused:

    ETA: Ignore me - I have misread it. It seems a wee bit confusing though!!!!


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    #4152
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    Some intelligence agencies think its in Pakistan, we are not being told a lot of information thats for sure.


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    #4153
    fr336
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    JONJO THE MISER wrote: »
    Some intelligence agencies think its in Pakistan, we are not being told a lot of information thats for sure.

    Who?


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    #4154
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    fr336 wrote: »
    Who?

    The Americans.


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    #4155
    fr336
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    JONJO THE MISER wrote: »
    The Americans.

    Well..they would wouldn't they :D


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    #4156
    Paddywiggum
    Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭Paddywiggum


    JONJO THE MISER wrote: »
    The Americans.

    Do you mean 'all' of the Americans? Or do you mean the far right LIGNET group?


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    #4157
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    All theories in one link .

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26609687


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    #4158
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    fr336 wrote: »
    Who?

    The intelligence agencies that report directly to Jonjo obviously...


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    #4159
    fr336
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    The intelligence agencies that report directly to Jonjo obviously...

    :D:D


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    #4160
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,884 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    sopretty wrote: »
    Presumably they're factoring this in?

    I'm suspicious that they don't actually know how much fuel was left on board, or indeed, how much fuel was onboard at take-off!
    Being professional accident investigators I am going to guess that they will factor in every possible detail.

    And 'they' know exactly how much fuel was onboard. They can also look at the known flightpath and deduce close to exact fuel onboard at the time of the last known waypoint.
    tippguy2 wrote: »
    Well, I think some authority knows something, I can't understand why a sat image that was discovered nearly a week ago was only revealed a day or two ago...............I would bet my bottom dollar that the Aussies have done a recon maybe last sun or mon and indentified something from the plane, surely they would have checked this out immediately ?
    Radar image analysis is as much an art as a science. Each frame was examined by a person...it takes a long time to analyse all the images.

    Secondly, why would they send a valuable aircraft on a 10 hour round trip before they got the satellite image analysed.
    sully2010 wrote: »
    Last 54 minutes of communication from MH370 for anyone interested:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10714907/Revealed-the-final-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html
    Glad this finally was released. Still doesn't tell us anything however.


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    #4161
    Paddywiggum
    Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭Paddywiggum


    Glad this finally was released. Still doesn't tell us anything however.[/QUOTE]

    Would you read anything into the final communication from co-pilot? It didnt seem as formal as the others i.e. not repeating in acknowledgement what ATC had said


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    #4162
    123balltv
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭123balltv


    Still very strange :mad:
    Captain highly experienced would have told the traffic controllers before turning off the communication systems but then again maybe a fan of air crash investigation is getting a bit big headed.


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    #4163
    sully2010
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭sully2010


    Tenger wrote: »
    Being professional accident investigators I am going to guess that they will factor in every possible detail.

    And 'they' know exactly how much fuel was onboard. They can also look at the known flightpath and deduce close to exact fuel onboard at the time of the last known waypoint.


    Radar image analysis is as much an art as a science. Each frame was examined by a person...it takes a long time to analyse all the images.

    Secondly, why would they send a valuable aircraft on a 10 hour round trip before they got the satellite image analysed.
    Glad this finally was released. Still doesn't tell us anything however.

    Unfortunately no, I hope I'm wrong but this may end up being one of the biggest aviation mysteries ever, 2 weeks tonight and no concrete leads, loads of dead ends, unprecedented.


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    #4164
    irishproduce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    How come none of the sorties heading out searching are visible on flight radar?
    I hope that isn't a ridiculously stupid question...


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    #4165
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,152 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I would take a look at people on ground at airport. Hate to give terrorists ideas, but what if someone on the ground put a magnetic bomb on the landing gear, gear goes up after take off and mission accomplished . Then the timer goes off 90 mins into flight bomb explodes and takes out the electrics , transponder & ACARS .
    No need to pass security as not boarding plane, could be a baggage handler or cleaner of jet. So many low level workers have huge access to planes landing gear.


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    #4166
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    irishproduce wrote: »
    How come none of the sorties heading out searching are visible on flight radar?
    I hope that isn't a ridiculously stupid question...

    There was a few on here yesterday

    http://planefinder.net/

    None showing at the minute.


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    #4167
    dees99
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭dees99


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    I would take a look at people on ground at airport. Hate to give terrorists ideas, but what if someone on the ground put a magnetic bomb on the landing gear, gear goes up after take off and mission accomplished . Then the timer goes off 90 mins into flight bomb explodes and takes out the electrics , transponder & ACARS .
    No need to pass security as not boarding plane, could be a baggage handler or cleaner of jet. So many low level workers have huge access to planes landing gear.

    The problem with that theory, is that the terrorist organisation would have claimed responsibility by now!

    The jet was hijacked or else the pilot was in on it also. Too much premeditated flying to suggest otherwise. I'd say its sitting in the desert with nets over it to hide it. Jot sure what the target is. Hardly waiting for July 4th?


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    #4168
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,393 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    No need to pass security as not boarding plane,
    Seriously? lol


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    #4169
    dees99
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭dees99


    They haven't even bothered to send the drones to the search zone because the intelligence agencies know its not there. They have them looking elsewhere. I can't believe how ignorant people are to rubbish this theory! Every minute the plane is not found proves this theory. How can people possibly believe a plane that turned around, never radioed for help, turned off the transponder and comms at different stages, vanished in a radar corridor, can't be found after two weeks, is the result of an aircraft failure? I'm dumbfounded!! ��


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    #4170
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,152 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Mellor wrote: »
    Seriously? lol

    I dunno, you tell me. Would they need to enter airport and go should same security measures that passengers do? I doubt it, they probably have passes to go straight to work on the ground. Not saying there are no security measures for people who work as baggage handlers or cleaners, I'm saying would be easy to infiltrate . If they are asking questions about the pilot...... why not the guy who was hanging around the landing gear before take off ?


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    #4171
    billie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭billie1b


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    I dunno, you tell me. Would they need to enter airport and go should same security measures that passengers do? I doubt it, they probably have passes to go straight to work on the ground. Not saying there are no security measures for people who work as baggage handlers or cleaners, I'm saying would be easy to infiltrate . If they are asking questions about the pilot...... why not the guy who was hanging around the landing gear before take off ?

    Security points in Airports for the staff are a lot worse than the pax ones, well in DUB, LGW and STN they are anyways, you feel violated after it most times


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