Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Thrill

Kavs8 wrote: »

flight made contact with MH370 at "just after 1:30am";

That would be 8 or more minutes after radar contact was lost (01:22) ?

Mountainsandh

In the event it might have been a bomb, wouldn't a terrorist group now be declaring that they were involved ?

Kavs8

That would be 8 or more minutes after radar contact was lost (01:22) ?

Indeed, it is important to remember however peoples memories of events especially as at the time they did not view it as a critical situation can be ''a bit off'' the actual timeline.

In the event it might have been a bomb, wouldn't a terrorist group now be declaring that they were involved ?

In the majority of cases yes, however the Libyan Gov official who brought down Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie didn't admit involvement until 2003 - 15 years after the bombing.

And previously on 4 December 1977 - Malaysian Airlines Flight 653, a Boeing 737-200 (9M-MBD) was hijacked and crashed in Tanjung Kupang, Johor, killing all 100 people on board. It remains the deadliest crash of all time in Malaysia to this day (will be surpassed by MH370 when confirmed) and nobody has ever claimed responsibility.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Kavs8

BREAKING - Chinese Authorities are redacting the name of one passenger on the flight from the Xinjiang province, one Russian listed on the passenger manifest is denying he was on the flight. The FBI are getting involved in the investigation.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-fbi-disappearance-malaysian-airlines-jet-20140308,0,5571373.story#axzz2vQ4QTtx2

Thrill

FBI preparing forensic personnel for deployment if allowed by Malaysian officials to join Flight MH370 investigation. ABC News.

Mountainsandh

There is a pic of the oil slicks there (don't know if reliable source) :
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/08/missing-mas-flight-oil-slicks-found-off-vietnam/

You're both right, it could be misinformation, or that for some reason the terrorists will not claim it. Somehow in my mind that would add insult to the horrible injury.

Kavs8

LIVE - Press conference on Sky News now.

owenc

Kavs8 wrote: »

BREAKING - Chinese Authorities are redacting the name of one passenger on the flight from the Xinjiang province, one Russian listed on the passenger manifest is denying he was on the flight. The FBI are getting involved in the investigation.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-fbi-disappearance-malaysian-airlines-jet-20140308,0,5571373.story#axzz2vQ4QTtx2

Oh dear..

Kavs8

Malaysian Civil Aviation General has confirmed that no ACARS messages with reported malfunctions were sent by the aircraft to Malaysia Airlines Operations Centre - I.e. the plane was operating normally and a catastrophic event suddenly cut all information. This is not looking good.

Interpol have now confirmed they are investigating. Another press conference at 3am our time.

Sully

Nothing new learned from press conference really. Oil slick not verified, no answer on stolen passports, search area widened, nothing to report on resumption of search and no reference to another aircraft speaking with them. 1.30am is the time it went offline.

Tigerandahalf

Was the plane out of Malaysian air territory at this time though. If it was would the plane be sending that data somewhere else?

He was being very careful about what he was answering. It will be interesting to see who was meant to have responsibility for monitoring this plane at the time. A number of countries could have air traffic control rights around that area. Be interesting to see if the plane was handed over to other controllers from a different country at any stage.

The US are now entitled to have involvement in the investigation as US citizens were onboard.

Kavs8

Just a further update the Civil Aviation General has said when asked if it was terrorism, ''we are investigating it seriously and looking from all angles.'' - Also the oil slicks spotted may not belong to MH370.

What are peoples thoughts on the press conference? Not a lot of information but the information he answered seems to point in one direction at this stage, although its critical to have an open mind.

Very worrying, just hoping today they find the aircraft and hopefully bodies, at least families can come to terms with what has happened then.

If it was would the plane be sending that data somewhere else?

No. If you read it again ACARS messages are information mainly of a technical nature send from the aircraft to its operations centre - it could be anywhere in the world and this would still happen - AF447 was sending messages up until it hit the water to Paris - This flight sent nothing.

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

No. If you read it again ACARS messages are information mainly of a technical nature send from the aircraft to its operations centre - it could be anywhere in the world and this would still happen - AF447 was sending messages up until it hit the water to Paris - This flight sent nothing.

But did it send any ACARS information at any stage or just not anything that merited attention.
They seem to have even less info than the Air France crash. Finding the crash site is becoming pretty critical as from what they are given they appear to be pretty clueless.

Kavs8

did it send any ACARS information at any stage or just not anything that merited attention

ACARS messages are sent nearly every second, only when it sends a message that the Malaysia Arilines Operations Centre receiver deems critical would there then be concern, the director General said there were no messages of concern.

Thrill

Kavs8 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on the press conference? .

It looked to me like he was desperately trying to give out as little information as possible and resorted to answering most questions with "currently under investigation".

He became defensive when questioned about passport procedures also.

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

ACARS messages are sent nearly every second, only when it sends a message that the Malaysia Arilines Operations Centre receiver deems critical would there then be concern, the director General said there were no messages of concern.

That is the biggest clue we have got so far. It must have been catastrophic failure. Whether terrorism was involved or not I guess we can suggest that the plane had a very sudden failure and crashed pretty quickly. It seems likely it was intact until impact but why is there no debris?

Xenji

Was it true that the Malaysian government stated that the aircraft had not crashed but was taken down or is this just people looking for a headline?

Morpork

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

That is the biggest clue we have got so far. It must have been catastrophic failure. Whether terrorism was involved or not I guess we can suggest that the plane had a very sudden failure and crashed pretty quickly. It seems likely it was intact until impact but why is there no debris?

Is this scenario possible?:

The plane suffers system wide electrical failure. Basically everything loses power, from engines to comms.

The plane still intact, crashes into the ocean and sinks to the bottom while the fuel leaks and rises to the top.

Note: I know nothing about planes.

Kavs8

Thrill wrote: »

It looked to me like he was desperately trying to give out as little information as possible and resorted to answering most questions with "currently under investigation".

He became defensive when questioned about passport procedures also.

Yeah couldn't believe his reaction to that question! I totally agree it seems we are getting a plug of information, but he did give some critical points. Malaysia Airlines have said nothing since yesterday either, and I'm pretty sure if the ACARS messages contained failure messages we would know as we did when AF447 went down.

That is the biggest clue we have got so far. It must have been catastrophic failure. Whether terrorism was involved or not I guess we can suggest that the plane had a very sudden failure and crashed pretty quickly. It seems likely it was intact until impact but why is there no debris?

Indeed, but we do not know if that is the crash location - He confirmed they did not know if the oil slicks belonged to the aircraft, confirmation also that planes and ships were in that area now - I would expect confirmation maybe after 3 am (next press conference).

Was it true that the Malaysian government stated that the aircraft had not crashed but was taken down or is this just people looking for a headline?

I have not seen such information?

Is this scenario possible?:

The plane suffers system wide electrical failure. Basically everything loses power, from engines to comms.

The plane still intact, crashes into the ocean and sinks to the bottom while the fuel leaks and rises to the top.

Note: I know nothing about planes.

No it simply means the plane was operating normally and then information ceased.

Tigerandahalf

The oil slick may not be from the plane. If not it could be confusing the whole issue.
There still seems to be a lot of confusion around the plane's last position and when it was reported gone from the radar. That other plane reported muddled communication a time period after the lost radar time.

SpaceTime

Morpork wrote: »

Is this scenario possible?:

The plane suffers system wide electrical failure. Basically everything loses power, from engines to comms.

The plane still intact, crashes into the ocean and sinks to the bottom while the fuel leaks and rises to the top.

Note: I know nothing about planes.

I'd assume there's a radio with independent battery backup.

Systems on planes, particularly large commercial airliners, aren't too easy to knock off line simultaneously.

Tigerandahalf

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'd assume there's a radio with independent battery backup.

Systems on planes, particularly large commercial airliners, aren't too easy to knock off line simultaneously.

From what I have seen on tv before re a plane crash, even if all systems fail a backup wind generated power can be used to provide some basic power supply. I don't know if this applies here.
Whatever no communication now seems to have been made, either in data form or through pilot communication.

Retrieving the black boxes is even more crucial here as they seem to have very little info to go on.
I think as aviation experts earlier reported inquiries will take two lines -
terrorism
or/and the plane's maintenance record.

It could well be the latter.

I'm sure the media will also query the withdrawn statement from the Vietnamese that the LTR (locator transmitter receiver) had been picked given the plane's crash site to be 140km off the Vietnamese coast.

Kavs8

Lads ye keep ignoring the fact the plane disappeared of radar within a minute with no preceding altitude changes noted, ye go on talking as if it was a controlled descent - what ever happened was catastrophic, backs up and all that are great - however are absolutely no use when the plane goes from 35,000ft to zero in the space of a minute.

Xenji

@Kavs8 you said here that the Malaysian Government said the plane did not crash http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89365602&postcount=264 That only leads us to believe the plane was shot down or taken by terrorists? I know you stated otherwise, but just wondering if other news agencies have reported this, not having a go at you.

Kavs8

Xenji wrote: »

@Kavs8 you said here that the Malaysian Government said the plane did not crash http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89365602&postcount=264 That only leads us to belive the plane was shot down or taken by terrorists?

That's completely you're take I never said it was shot down or taken by terrorists as fact, I said the Malaysian Government said they are not confirming a crash until they find the plane - which you can understand?

owenc

Kavs8 wrote: »

Lads ye keep ignoring the fact the plane disappeared of radar within a minute with no preceding altitude changes noted, ye go on talking as if it was a controlled descent - what ever happened was catastrophic, backs up and all that are great - however are absolutely no use when the plane goes from 35,000ft to zero in the space of a minute.

Not to be arrogant but it probably didn't I watched the tracker on playback and it went from 35,000 to 0 feet in about 10 seconds. Its not possible...

The 0 feet is probably when whatever happened, happened.

Tigerandahalf

From the Mirror feed......

"The fact that there was NO distress call from Flight MH370 is intriguing aviation experts across the globe.

John Goglia, a former board member of the National Transportation Safety Board, the US agency that investigates plane crashes, said the lack of a distress call suggested that the plane either experienced an explosive decompression or was destroyed by an explosive device.

"It had to be quick because there was no communication," Goglia said.

He added that the false identities of two passengers strongly suggested the possibility of a bomb.

"That’s a big red flag," he said.



Aviation consultant Paul Hayes said it was possible sabotage could have caused the plane's disappearance.

Mr Hayes, director of safety at Flightglobal Ascend aviation consultancy, said the flight would normally have been at a routine stage, having reached initial cruise altitude.

He told Reuters: "Such a sudden disappearance would suggest either that something is happening so quickly that there is no opportunity to put out a mayday, in which case a deliberate act is one possibility to consider, or that the crew is busy coping with what whatever has taken place."

He added it was too early to speculate on the causes.



............."

Kavs8

owenc wrote: »

Not to be arrogant but it probably didn't I watched the tracker on playback and it went from 35,000 to 0 feet in about 10 seconds. Its not possible...

The flight tracker is telling you information has ceased so the transponder has gone offline (i.e. This is when whatever event happened that caused the loss of the aircraft) - When it goes from radar it means that the plane is no longer in coverage (primary radar we are talking about here) so that would basically mean the plane has crashed, examples for you when Air India 185 was blown up off Cork, she hit the ocean in less then a minute. A SilkAir aircraft which crashed a few years back hit the ocean in less then a minute. I wouldn't use flightradar's ten seconds as a guide.

Xenji

Kavs8 wrote: »

That's completely you're take I never said it was shot down or taken by terrorists as fact, I said the Malaysian Government said they are not confirming a crash until they find the plane - which you can understand?

I can understand it fine, but after 24 hours you really have to be thinking it has crashed or is in terrorist hands, it has be one or the other, for their government to be holding out hope at this late stage means they are withholding information to the public or something else is going on behind the scenes.