Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Tigerandahalf

If there was an explosion there should be debris spread over a wide area. But no sign so far.
If the plane did descend after an incident the ACARS must have been disabled. Otherwise surely a data message would have been relayed before impact.
(given that ACARS transmits every few seconds according to poster above)

Kavs8

Xenji wrote: »

I can understand it fine, but after 24 hours you really have to be thinking it has crashed or is in terrorist hands, it has be one or the other, for their government to be holding out hope at this late stage means they are withholding information to the public or something else is going on behind the scenes.

Indeed, breaking news now - Malaysia Airlines have said they are ''fearing the worst''

Peregrine

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The US are now entitled to have involvement in the investigation as US citizens were onboard.

I don't think the fact that there were US citzens entitles them to have an involvement in the investigation, more of a right to be given information. It would be odd if they were.

But the fact that they are the state of design and manufacture of the aircraft would entitle them to have a representative who are entitled to participate in all aspects of the investigation.

I should read up on Annex 13 some time..

owenc

Kavs8 wrote: »

The flight tracker is telling you information has ceased so the transponder has gone offline (i.e. This is when whatever event happened that caused the loss of the aircraft) - When it goes from radar it means that the plane is no longer in coverage (primary radar we are talking about here) so that would basically mean the plane has crashed, examples for you when Air India 185 was blown up off Cork, she hit the ocean in less then a minute. A SilkAir aircraft which crashed a few years back hit the ocean in less then a minute. I wouldn't use flightradar's ten seconds as a guide.

So you think it hit the ocean in seconds?

I think maybe after. I personally agree with the person above in that something occured to cut all the power off. But the point that it went off radar was not when it crashed but when the power went out.

Personally don't feel it would fall so fast.

Whatever it is, this whole passport thing is creepy. Kind of finding it sureal that this is happening in the 21st century.

owenc

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If there was an explosion there should be debris spread over a wide area. But no sign so far.
If the plane did descend after an incident the ACARS must have been disabled. Otherwise surely a data message would have been relayed before impact.
(given that ACARS transmits every few seconds according to poster above)

Does it transmit itself?

Kavs8

owenc wrote: »

So you think it hit the ocean in seconds?

I think maybe after. I personally agree with the person above in that something occured to cut all the power off. But the point that it went off radar was not when it crashed but when the power went out.

Personally don't feel it would fall so fast.

Whatever it is, this whole passport thing is creepy. Kind of finding it sureal that this is happening the 21st century.

The plane was 40 minutes in the air, she was heavy, its a Boeing 777-200 with 239 people on-board, are you telling me if there is catastrophic failure i.e. a bomb or material component failure, that it wont be on the ground in less then a minute?

Does it transmit itself?

Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) - It's an automatic communication of the latest status of the aircraft's systems to its airlines operations centre.

owenc

Kavs8 wrote: »

The plane was 40 minutes in the air, she was heavy, its a Boeing 777-200 with 239 people on-board, are you telling me if there is catastrophic failure i.e. a bomb or material component failure, that it wont be on the ground in less then a minute?



Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) - It's an automatic communication of the latest status of the aircraft's systems to its airlines operations centre.

I don't really know. I'm just going on the radar. It changed from 35,000 to 0 in seconds.

Kavs8

owenc wrote: »

I don't really know. I'm just going on the radar. It changed from 35,000 to 0 in seconds.

Ah I see where you are confused, I wasn't saying that in ten seconds it changed from 35,000 to 0 - That is most definitely not possible - I am saying within 60 seconds it did, the point at which its altitude changes from 35,000 to 0 signifies the ''event'' i.e. for example (I am not saying this is what happened) a bomb went off and everything is gone communications etc.

And for those discrediting flightradar also, the same flight tonight had full radar coverage through the Gulf of Thailand, no radar issues.

owenc

Kavs8 wrote: »

Ah I see where you are confused, I wasn't saying that in ten seconds it changed from 35,000 to 0 - That is most definitely not possible - I am saying within 60 seconds it did, the point at which its altitude changes from 35,000 to 0 signifies the ''event'' i.e. for example (I am not saying this is what happened) a bomb went off and everything is gone communications etc.

Yes thats what i'm saying aswell. It surely would not be possible to just drop like that and even if it did reach 0 feet it surely couldn't record that? (It would obviously break up)

Very suspicious all of this.

Kavs8

owenc wrote: »

Yes thats what i'm saying aswell. It surely would not be possible to just drop like that and even if it did reach 0 feet it surely couldn't record that? (It would obviously break up)

Very suspicious all of this.

When it goes to zero that is the signal bouncing back to radar and shortly (very quickly once it gets no return) after the signal goes dead and the aircraft is off radar - at that very moment it is highly probable the plane was crashing.

Oh I'm the same, Malaysia Airlines history of no noted mechanical incidents, the recent developments in China, the fact the Chinese Authorities are removing a Chinese passenger from the list (who was on the flight), the two passengers with stolen passports, a third passport holder in Russia denying he was on the flight - No distress calls etc its pointing in a very bad direction.

mickdw

I relation to radar, are all the system now reliant on data being sent from the aircraft in order for it to be visible. What about traditional radar that just bounced of the aircraft. This wouldn't need any signal from the aircraft. Are these in use anymore?

Kavs8

mickdw wrote: »

I relation to radar, are all the system now reliant on data being sent from the aircraft in order for it to be visible. What about traditional radar that just bounced of the aircraft. This wouldn't need any signal from the aircraft. Are these in use anymore?

That's primary radar which would keep a blip of the aircraft even if all communications had ceased, secondary radar is the new radar which requires a transponder to send all the information and if that fails, the aircraft would disappear from radar (only on Secondary radar) - I have reason to believe they replaced primary radar in that area with the new secondary radar to meet regulation requirements, if that is the case then when it disappeared from flightradar would have been the same moment it did on secondary radar.

Tigerandahalf

It is very hard to see how a major bomb would have been on board. However, there is confusion over this 3rd fake passport holder who didn't board the plane. However, the luggage would have been removed from the plane if that happened.
If a bomb was detonated on board it would have to be very small. Even if there was one and the plane's fuselage was perforated you would think decompression would then occur pulling the plane apart and resulting in a wide debris field.

Would it be possible for the plane to have a catastrophic failure, descend and then make impact with the water and sink without leaving debris? It doesn't seem to add up from the ordinary person's eye like myself.

owenc

Kavs8 wrote: »

When it goes to zero that is the signal bouncing back to radar and shortly (very quickly once it gets no return) after the signal goes dead and the aircraft is off radar - at that very moment it is highly probable the plane was crashing.

Oh I'm the same, Malaysia Airlines history of no noted mechanical incidents, the recent developments in China, the fact the Chinese Authorities are removing a Chinese passenger from the list (who was on the flight), the two passengers with stolen passports, a third passport holder in Russia denying he was on the flight - No distress calls etc its pointing in a very bad direction.

Ok. Well for me its the passports and the fact that it has suposedly crashed in a shallow ocean but yet there is no debris or signals from the black box. Very odd.

I would've thought they would find debris within a few hours. I mean come on if the ocean is shallow..

Kavs8

Would it be possible for the plane to have a catastrophic failure, descend and then make impact with the water and sink without leaving debris? It doesn't seem to add up from the ordinary person's eye like myself.

Everything is possible, but in a catastrophic failure event it is highly unlikely you will quickly descend, somehow recover before the ocean and somehow just gracefully land and sink in the ocean - It has never happened bar on the hudson and that was on a river in broad-daylight.

This aircraft has more then probably crashed at sea and however ''slow'' you crash an aircraft at sea, especially with a jet its effectively like a plane meeting concrete - At the speed it would most probably have hit the ocean it most likely disintegrated. Just remember when the Air India flight crashed off Cork, it took just over a day and a half to find the plane - And the wreckage was located together even though she blew up in midair.

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

Everything is possible, but in a catastrophic failure event it is highly unlikely you will quickly descend, somehow recover before the ocean and somehow just gracefully land and sink in the ocean - It has never happened bar on the hudson and that was on a river in broad-daylight.

This aircraft has more then probably crashed at sea and however ''slow'' you crash an aircraft at sea, especially with a jet its effectively like a plane meeting concrete - At the speed it would most probably have hit the ocean it most likely disintegrated. Just remember when the Air India flight crashed off Cork, it took just over a day and a half to find the plane - And the wreckage was located together even though she blew up in midair.

I guess if the plane hit the ocean nose first the debris field could be very small.

ceadaoin.

2 more passengers travelling on the flight using suspect European passports now, so 4 total. This is definitely starting to look like something other than an accident if true

http://my.news.yahoo.com/two-more-europeans-passengers-suspect-identities-onboard-missing-005206266.html

Kavs8

I guess if the plane hit the ocean nose first the debris field could be very small.

Not necessarily, AF447 hit the ocean intact and the level of debris was staggering.

2 more European passengers travelling on the flight suspect passports now, so 4 total. This is definitely starting to look like something other than an accident if true

Christ, that's extremely worrying now.

Tigerandahalf

Given that the plane was heading to Beijing who knows what is involved here.

owenc

Maybe that is normal for Asia.

Kavs8

1% of passports in global circulation are stolen and now (unconfirmed) it's probable that four passengers with stolen passports were on the same flight, doesn't add up - 9/11 (Four hijackers on all flights). Just throwing it out there.

Tigerandahalf

Latest from the Mirror feed.........
"The missing plane did NOT show any signs of anomaly, according to Datuk Azharuddin Abdul Rahman, from Malaysia's Department of Civil Aviation.

When asked if the system in place would have notified authorities if there had been any abnormality, he replied: "Yes."

"No, there was no sign of anomaly on the aircraft," he added.

............."

If there were terrorists on board it would seem they did not make an attempt to hijack the plane. Otherwise there would have been communication.

Kavs8

Ah the good 'ole mirror feed. :rolleyes:

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

Ah the good 'ole mirror feed. :rolleyes:

The Mirror must have done an expose on you in a past life!

Kavs8

The Mirror must have done an expose on you in a past life!

Nope but on nearly everyone else's, how you view that as a reputable source is beyond me like! They have about as much credibility when it comes to aviation as FOX News does on being non-biased to the American agenda.

Tigerandahalf

From the Mirror...

"Former Army soldier Colonel Richard Kemp says the possibility that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 had been attacked by terrorists must be given serious consideration.

Col Kemp, a former head of counter-terrorism for the Joint Intelligence Committee and chairman of Cobra, said: "The possibility of this being a terror attack has to be seriously considered.

"Two passengers appeared to be travelling on stolen passports and there was no distress signal.

"We have seen recent terror attacks in China itself.

"We know the Uighurs minority have terrorist links.

"They are Muslim separatist militants and for quite a long time have carried out terrorist attacks.

"Only last weekend they were blamed for the knife attack at a station in Yunnan province, which left 29 dead.

"It is not beyond the bounds of possibility these people could be involved in the latest incident – either the Uighurs themselves or others seeking to support them.

"This group is known to have links with al-Qaeda - and we know that Islamist terrorists remain obsessed with attacks carried out by aircraft.

"Before 9/11 there was a plot based in the Philippines known as Operation Bojinka to bring down airliners flying from Asia to the US.

"It didn't work.

"Since then we have seen various other attempts to use planes as weapons or to blow them up.

"All these considerations point to a distinct possibility that this incident could be terrorism.

"If that proves to be the case, it will be regarded as a major spectacular by the terrorists."


..............."

wil

Pentagon surveillance showed no evidence of flash from explosion.
link

Curious about the 7 tickets sold by China Southern Airlines - only one was Chinese, 2 unknown (stolen passports). 2 Ukranian, 1 Dutch, 1 Malaysian.

MAS air is far more international, CS is mostly domestic, so odd that non Chinese would be purchasing through them, as most non-Chinese would likely have a return ticket unless working there, so possibly on return trip to China.


Was their some query about the Russian not being on the flight or did I imagine that?

Kavs8

wil wrote: »

Pentagon surveillance showed no evidence of flash from explosion.
link

Curious about the 7 tickets sold by China Southern Airlines - only one was Chinese, 2 unknown (stolen passports). 2 Ukranian, 1 Dutch, 1 Malaysian.

MAS air is far more international, CS is mostly domestic, so odd that non Chinese would be purchasing through them, as most non-Chinese would likely have a return ticket unless working there, so possibly on return trip to China.


Was their some query about the Russian not being on the flight or did I imagine that?

Nope correct, he was denying he was on the flight (no sh*t some would say).

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-fbi-disappearance-malaysian-airlines-jet-20140308,0,5571373.story#axzz2vQ4QTtx2

wil

and the other 2 suspect passports may have bought tickets though China Southern (Sky) - looking more ominous.


Could it be possible to hijack a plane and disable all telemetry and communication to steal the plane under the radar?

Kavs8

wil wrote: »

and the other 2 suspect passports may have bought tickets though China Southern (Sky) - looking more ominous.


Could it be possible to hijack a plane and disable all telemetry and communication to steal the plane under the radar?

In my own opinion no, its very unlikely a commercial pilot would undertake such actions even threatened with his life - Also if say they took over control, I would find it very hard to believe they could keep her below 1,000ft above the sea and controlled.