Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Tzardine

Mad4simmental wrote: »

They do not know %100 that the plain is where these images wer. Have they looked in airports for this plain?

Osama was in front of them all that time!!

I have no idea what you are talking about ?

Duiske

Mad4simmental wrote: »

They do not know %100 that the plain is where these images wer. Have they looked in airports for this plain?

Osama was in front of them all that time!!

In fairness, if Osama Bin Laden had been 240ft tall with a 200ft arm span, I think he would have been found a bit sooner.

Mad4simmental

Every single source, substantiated or not, was taken as a great revelation. It was and continues to be a sad circus of events.


If those following the serious clues left available there is only one question to ask. Why does no one mention the Indian Oceans most advanced and secure air base, the stationary Aircraft Carrier located south of the southern tip of India called Diego Garcia?

Not a peep. Not even an indication of a US managed military installation that monitors everything in this war region. In fact the best old metaphor regarding the lack of reference to this location is “The Silence Is Deafening.”

So here it is. As CNN, Fox, MSNBC, CBC, BBC, CTV and all the rest are prepared to spout off theories without any solid confirmation, here is one from a source who wishes to remain unidentified from Northwest BC Canada. This individual comes from a three decade long background of exposing the secrets the one percent and the military forces would rather have remained secret. He has recently revealed what happened to flight 370. ‘Film at Eleven’.

Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah prepared and practised with his home flight simulator and had determined the maximum speed and angle of decent the Boeing 777 could withstand.

As soon as the flight reached the extent of the Malaysian radar capability, when he knew they would no longer expect to see his radar signal, he wished the ground crews good night. He then turned off one tracking device, waited to see if anyone responded or raised alarm for 15 minutes, then turned off all communication devices. He locked the cabin door to prevent anyone from entering after asking his co-pilot to get him a drink or check on a system outside of the cockpit.

The Captain then immediately turned the plane southwest into a know flight path and climbed to over 40,000 ft. the maximum structural capability of the Boeing 777. He put on the pilot supplied air mask and kept the plane at over 40,000 ft until he was certain all the passengers and crew, including his co-pilot, were asphyxiated.

From his flight simulator experimentation he had already determined the precise coordinates where he would initiate his next action. To bring the plane down at the maximum speed and maximum angle of decent to make a direct hit on the fuel storage tanks at Diego Garcia.

As he initiated this direct course of action the American Military had not been concerned with the radar blip of this flight at 40,000 plus feet. They monitor vessels and flights which appear to be a threat or are invading their space. However they were suddenly brought into complete attention as their warning systems set off alarms.
The base at Diego Garcia attempted to make radio contact and immediately dispatching interceptors. Knowing full well this was an imminent threat, having no time to debate the issue and recognizing the aircraft was operating in what was basically ‘stealth’ mode, uncommunicative, the plane was shot out of the sky.

Becoming aware of which flight it was with the political and potential military repercussions, the US military ordered a complete lock down on all communications regarding the event and began dispatching crews to locate and pick up all the debris.

When the rest of the world became aware the flight was missing the US Navy offered all their resource to help them look for it in the South China Sea, then the Gulf of Thailand, Bay of Bengal and the Strait of Malacca. This kept the worlds attention focused away from the location they were cleaning up.

US 7th Fleet Commander William Marks told CNN “We wait for the Malaysians to tell us where to search and we go there.”

This is the most telling statement of all. Since when does the US take directions from Malaysia unless they are simply providing the rope to let them hang themselves.

The most powerful radar systems in the region are at Diego Garcia. A perfect target for such an attack, one the USA stopped and one they simply cannot reveal to the world due to the nationality of the passengers on board. They will continue to assist in the search while doing everything to ensure no one even mentions Diego Garcia in the mainstream media.

Maximus Alexander

Duiske wrote: »

A question for anyone who understands this better than me. By averaging all the distances of plane from sat during the 6 previous pings it seems they have worked out speed/direction/altitude of the aircraft. Is it now the assumption that the time window of last "ping", between 0011 utc and 0115 utc, is not the time the aircraft came down, but is the time it lost all power and began to glide ? Are they now looking at glide ratios and weather/wind patterns to determine where the plane may have come down ? They will know most of the variables, aircraft weight etc, so would it possible to work out with a fair degree of accuracy where the aircraft came down ?

I believe all they can say is that it went down at some time between 0011 and 0115. That leaves a pretty wide search area for an aircraft that cruises at 560mph.

I would assume that they can plot a suspected flight path based on all the pings and estimate the time at which it should have run out of fuel, narrowing things somewhat.

fits

US conspiracy....
Yawn

Maximus Alexander

Mad4simmental wrote: »

If those following the serious clues left available there is only one question to ask. Why does no one mention the Indian Oceans most advanced and secure air base, the stationary Aircraft Carrier located south of the southern tip of India called Diego Garcia?

Diego Gargcia is not even remotely close to the suspected flight path or the location that the plane is suspected to have come down. The plane was probably 1000 miles from there at its closest.

KCC

Mad4simmental wrote: »

As soon as the flight reached the extent of the Malaysian radar capability, when he knew they would no longer expect to see his radar signal, he wished the ground crews good night.

It was the co-pilot, not the pilot who was heard to say "All right, good night" to Malaysian air traffic control.

pfurey101

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Every single source, substantiated or not, was taken as a great revelation. It was and continues to be a sad circus of events.


If those following the serious clues left available there is only one question to ask. Why does no one mention the Indian Oceans most advanced and secure air base, the stationary Aircraft Carrier located south of the southern tip of India called Diego Garcia?

Not a peep. Not even an indication of a US managed military installation that monitors everything in this war region. In fact the best old metaphor regarding the lack of reference to this location is “The Silence Is Deafening.”

So here it is. As CNN, Fox, MSNBC, CBC, BBC, CTV and all the rest are prepared to spout off theories without any solid confirmation, here is one from a source who wishes to remain unidentified from Northwest BC Canada. This individual comes from a three decade long background of exposing the secrets the one percent and the military forces would rather have remained secret. He has recently revealed what happened to flight 370. ‘Film at Eleven’.

Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah prepared and practised with his home flight simulator and had determined the maximum speed and angle of decent the Boeing 777 could withstand.

As soon as the flight reached the extent of the Malaysian radar capability, when he knew they would no longer expect to see his radar signal, he wished the ground crews good night. He then turned off one tracking device, waited to see if anyone responded or raised alarm for 15 minutes, then turned off all communication devices. He locked the cabin door to prevent anyone from entering after asking his co-pilot to get him a drink or check on a system outside of the cockpit.

The Captain then immediately turned the plane southwest into a know flight path and climbed to over 40,000 ft. the maximum structural capability of the Boeing 777. He put on the pilot supplied air mask and kept the plane at over 40,000 ft until he was certain all the passengers and crew, including his co-pilot, were asphyxiated.

From his flight simulator experimentation he had already determined the precise coordinates where he would initiate his next action. To bring the plane down at the maximum speed and maximum angle of decent to make a direct hit on the fuel storage tanks at Diego Garcia.

As he initiated this direct course of action the American Military had not been concerned with the radar blip of this flight at 40,000 plus feet. They monitor vessels and flights which appear to be a threat or are invading their space. However they were suddenly brought into complete attention as their warning systems set off alarms.
The base at Diego Garcia attempted to make radio contact and immediately dispatching interceptors. Knowing full well this was an imminent threat, having no time to debate the issue and recognizing the aircraft was operating in what was basically ‘stealth’ mode, uncommunicative, the plane was shot out of the sky.

Becoming aware of which flight it was with the political and potential military repercussions, the US military ordered a complete lock down on all communications regarding the event and began dispatching crews to locate and pick up all the debris.

When the rest of the world became aware the flight was missing the US Navy offered all their resource to help them look for it in the South China Sea, then the Gulf of Thailand, Bay of Bengal and the Strait of Malacca. This kept the worlds attention focused away from the location they were cleaning up.

US 7th Fleet Commander William Marks told CNN “We wait for the Malaysians to tell us where to search and we go there.”

This is the most telling statement of all. Since when does the US take directions from Malaysia unless they are simply providing the rope to let them hang themselves.

The most powerful radar systems in the region are at Diego Garcia. A perfect target for such an attack, one the USA stopped and one they simply cannot reveal to the world due to the nationality of the passengers on board. They will continue to assist in the search while doing everything to ensure no one even mentions Diego Garcia in the mainstream media.

Proof?

KCC

The BBC has a great site on all this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26503141

Tea 1000

Duiske wrote: »

A question for anyone who understands this better than me. By averaging all the distances of plane from sat during the 6 previous pings it seems they have worked out speed/direction/altitude of the aircraft. Is it now the assumption that the time window of last "ping", between 0011 utc and 0115 utc, is not the time the aircraft came down, but is the time it lost all power and began to glide ? Are they now looking at glide ratios and weather/wind patterns to determine where the plane may have come down ? They will know most of the variables, aircraft weight etc, so would it possible to work out with a fair degree of accuracy where the aircraft came down ?

Another related question for any pilot, but would it be correct to assume that the attitude and pitch etc of an aircraft under power would need to be altered if the power went? In other words, if the engines died, is it correct to assume that an aircraft like the 777 would start adopting a nose down attitude and more or less head for the ground in a relatively brisk manner unless counter control measures were taken by the pilot to adopt a glide path?
Also, is it safe to assume that both engines wouldn't flame out at the exact same time if it ran out of fuel, so even if there were a minute or so between them (and still assuming the pilots had no control of the aircraft for whatever reason), would it just start to turn to one side or would the wing with the dead engine start to dip?

KCC

Do the facts now indicate that the plane was deliberately and maliciously diverted?

boeingboy

@ Tea 100
Yes on both.
If there was "somebody with knowledge" he/she would trim for best clean glide speed usually Vref 30 + 80 knots (at given weight).
With Engine out I think a spiral dive or rollover would definitely happen.
We practice All engines out (at same time) and its f**kin alot of work. 3/1 is about 5 or 6 to 1 on my types.

Spring Onion

Mad4simmental wrote: »

The most powerful radar systems in the region are at Diego Garcia.

Whats the big deal about blowing up part of Diego Garcia? Would the USA/world really care?
5% of 9/11 impact I imagine.

Tea 1000

KCC wrote: »

Do the facts now indicate that the plane was deliberately and maliciously diverted?

Deliberately, yes, looks like it. Maliciously, no, I think only recovering voice recorder might reveal that, and seems like because it loops over the last 2 hours only, even getting that back might be useless, unless there were still conversations in the cockpit in the last 2 hours of flight.

boeingboy wrote: »

@ Tea 100
Yes on both.
If there was "somebody with knowledge" he/she would trim for best clean glide speed usually Vref 30 + 80 knots (at given weight).
With Engine out I think a spiral dive or rollover would definitely happen.
We practice All engines out (at same time) and its f**kin alot of work. 3/1 is about 5 or 6 to 1 on my types.

So chances are that whereever it ran out of fuel, it probably hit the sea not all that far from there. I suppose that info is still not helpful in narrowing down anything!

Sala

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Deliberately, yes, looks like it. Maliciously, no, I think only recovering voice recorder might reveal that, and seems like because it loops over the last 2 hours only, even getting that back might be useless, unless there were still conversations in the cockpit in the last 2 hours of flight.

So chances are that whereever it ran out of fuel, it probably hit the sea not all that far from there. I suppose that info is still not helpful in narrowing down anything!

But did it not change direction twice - first where it looked like it was turning back to land, second where it turned in the direction it is now? What would be the explanation for the 2nd turn if it wasn't malicious?

Edit: Looking at the map here http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26728045
If something went wrong and the pilot turned back to land, he would have landed before making the other turns.

slimjimmc

Sala wrote: »

But did it not change direction twice - first where it looked like it was turning back to land, second where it turned in the direction it is now? What would be the explanation for the 2nd turn if it wasn't malicious?

Edit: Looking at the map here http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26728045
If something went wrong and the pilot turned back to land, he would have landed before making the other turns.

I won't rule out that possibility (although imo it's unlikely) but I would say he should have landed, if that was possible at the time. Don't rule out the possibility that a landing was not possible at the time.

I also wouldn't assume the aircraft was in stable flight all the time either. Although the media maps show nice straight lines and neat turns I don't assume the aircraft was flying exactly as depicted and I don't assume the crew had full control all the time, too many unknowns to make that assumption. For all we know it could have been weaving in and out, with a crew struggling for control and eventually losing that battle.

Duiske

Mad4simmental wrote: »

So here it is. As CNN, Fox, MSNBC, CBC, BBC, CTV and all the rest are prepared to spout off theories without any solid confirmation, here is one from a source who wishes to remain unidentified from Northwest BC Canada. This individual comes from a three decade long background of exposing the secrets the one percent and the military forces would rather have remained secret. He has recently revealed what happened to flight 370. ‘Film at Eleven’.

Would it not be fairer to say that, rather than revealing what actually happened, he was simply spouting off his own theory ?

As for the rest of your theory, up to the point where he set course for Diego Garcia, I actually agree it could have happened but there's no evidence either way to rule it in or out.
The Diego Garcia angle ? There actual evidence in the form of satellite data which rules this out. And further to that, even if it did happen as you suggest and the US military were responsible for downing the plane, why on earth would they hide it ? Would an incident like that not help reinforce the US message that terrorist spectaculars are still a danger, and that the war on terror must go on ?

Duiske

KCC wrote: »

I was the co-pilot, not the pilot who was heard to say "All right, good night" to Malaysian air traffic control.

:eek:

wolfeye

If there was a fire in the cargo hold,would a pilot bring the plane up to 43,000 feet to starve the fire of oxygen trying to put it out?

Happyman42

wolfeye wrote: »

If there was a fire in the cargo hold,would a pilot bring the plane up to 43,000 feet to starve the fire of oxygen trying to put it out?

According to experts, an experienced pilot would never do that to quell a fire.

andy_g

wolfeye wrote: »

If there was a fire in the cargo hold,would a pilot bring the plane up to 43,000 feet to starve the fire of oxygen trying to put it out?

not very likely no.

Oryx

Happyman42 wrote: »

According to experts, an experienced pilot would never do that to quell a fire.

Is there any scenario where that is something a pilot would deliberately do? Or can you envisage a likely series of events that would cause that to happen, yet then be corrected and the flight to continue for hours?

fits

Interesting article about investigation so far. Argues that there's far too much info in public domain (contrary to many opinions on here and elsewhere)

Have to say, I don't envy the Malaysians. Its a diplomatic nightmare. That said, the Inmarsat info should have been acted on much sooner.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303949704579460171057002290?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303949704579460171057002290.html

Happyman42

Oryx wrote: »

Is there any scenario where that is something a pilot would deliberately do? Or can you envisage a likely series of events that would cause that to happen, yet then be corrected and the flight to continue for hours?

I haven't come across an expert opinion explaining that. And I'm no expert myself.
It is as curious as the descent to 12,000 feet.

KCC

Duiske wrote: »

:eek:

LOL - now fixed! Typed that with baby in one hand and keyboard in other!

wolfeye

If there was fumes in the plane from a fire in cargo ,would dropping to 12000 feet allow it to take in more oxygen and purge the stale fume filled air quicker because there is more oxygen at a lower altitude?
Maybe the oxygen masks were not deployed because of the fire and after climbing to 35000 feet to put out the fire,the plane rapidly decended to 12000 feet so people could breath easier.?

Sam Russell

Where does this altitude info come from for the primary radar that the Malaysian military have? Do they have 3D radar, or nodding radars that give altitude, or is it supposed from the echo back?

My understanding of primary radar is it just gives position not altitude. A seperate radar gives altitude.

Why would a plane climb to 45,000 ft and then descend to 12,000 ft unless they were trying to do something stupid? This talk about putting out fires by climbing and diving might apply to a WW II Lancaster, but not a jetliner built in the last 20 years.

Tenger

KCC wrote: »

Do the facts now indicate that the plane was deliberately and maliciously diverted?

Deliberately? I think we can state yes on that.
Maliciously? Not enough data to prove or disprove.

KCC wrote: »

It was the co-pilot, not the pilot who was heard to say "All right, good night" to Malaysian air traffic control.

Actually they are both fully qualified pilots. The correct terms are "Captain" and "First Officer" or "F/O"

The usual system is that one flys the aircraft (ie making the inputs to the flight computer and handflying take-off and landing) while the other handles comms and monitoring systems. They would then reverse the tasks on the next leg.

Remember the media outcry when it emerged that the "co-pilot was flying" the BA B777 that crashed at Heathrow a few years back?

Red Alert

There is sort of an omertà amongst pilots in that they won't criticise each other, even they did contribute to an accident. Take for example the Swissair plane that caught fire - the captains "by the book" approach was noted there as constraining him from deviating from an unsuitable checklist. David Learmont is about the only qualified captain that seems to be able to apportion fault to a pilot.

wil

Sam Russell wrote: »

Where does this altitude info come from for the primary radar that the Malaysian military have? Do they have 3D radar, or nodding radars that give altitude, or is it supposed from the echo back?

My understanding of primary radar is it just gives position not altitude. A seperate radar gives altitude.

Why would a plane climb to 45,000 ft and then descend to 12,000 ft unless they were trying to do something stupid? This talk about putting out fires by climbing and diving might apply to a WW II Lancaster, but not a jetliner built in the last 20 years.

I still cant find that revised route shown on the BBC.
(Edit - ok found it, link to follow) It seemed to show a more logical route partly following coast. Maybe descent could be an attempt to get visual bearings or action following depressurisation, whether by a pilot or novice.
In the Egypt Air hijacking, pilot had to fight a hijacker and lost control in last moments

KCC wrote: »

LOL - now fixed! Typed that with baby in one hand and keyboard in other!

Hope you pulled over;)