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Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

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    #4802
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,150 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I feel that maybe this search is all in vain, and based on questionable data. I think it might not be anywhere near the Indian Ocean, too much guess work and little facts.
    Can you call the flight path '' fact'' ....... I dunno . How stupid would they look it plane turns up on ground else where.


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    #4803
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    tharmor wrote: »
    A popular theory on MH370 The American is withdrawing from the Afghanistan, one of their command and control system (used for controlling the pilotless drones) was hijacked by the Talebans when the American transport convoy was moving down from one of the hill top bases. The Talebans ambushed the convoy and killed 2 American Seal personnel, seized the equipment/weapons, including the command and control system which weighed about 20 tons and packed into 6 crates. This happened about a month ago in Feb 2014..

    Couple of pointers just on the first paragraph. US "drones" are only controlled locally for take off and landing from Kandahar air base. Once in the air control is handed over to pilots in Nevada and ramstien. The local control centers are in compounds within compounds and are in ISO containers. They do not fit in civilian aircraft.

    Hilltop forward operating bases, FOB's are used by infantry to put boots on the ground to observe enemy movement or close with and destroy the enemy.

    I didn't really read the rest, sorry. Good story if Tom Clancy was still around.


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    #4804
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Top ten theories.

    1/ Cabin decompression (cause unknown) leading to pilots pasing out, after hitting the auto pilot knob.
    2/ Terrorist Bomb.
    3/ Fire in the hold.
    4/ Well executed & well planned Pilot or Co pilot suicide.
    5/ Cyber attack/ remotely controlling the planes fait.
    6/ Lithium batteries giving off poisonous fumes?
    7/ Hi Jacking that went wrong due to crew + passengers fighting back.
    8/ Political protest by the pilot which got out of control.
    9/ MH370 collided with a UFO which affected its electrics and its crew.
    10/ Structural/electrical failure which rendered the plane unstable (jammed controls).

    Aren't you missing one small thing which basically destroys all of the above theories- the fact that one of the communications system was switched off BEFORE the co pilot made his last message back to air traffic control, which points to a series of deliberate and well planned actions. Why this was done is obviously unknown and debatable but the fact that the system was switched off before last contact pretty much rules out any sudden or catastrophic event which took everyone by surprise..


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    #4805
    Duiske
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    sully2010 wrote: »
    It seems that if this was a "deliberate act" as stated, whoever orchestrated it has made it an incredibly difficult task to find it.
    tharmor wrote: »
    I had said some time back........not finding the flight and keeping everyone mis-informed is what the pilot/hijacker wanted....

    In this age of information......no information is the biggest terror !!

    Its the simplest answer alright. It all points to someone wanting this plane to become one of aviations biggest mysteries. Everything was done correctly to avoid the plane being detected or a crash location being found. It now seems that a rough location has been found, but by a method that whoever planned this could not have known was possible, because it had never been done before.


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    #4806
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    I feel that maybe this search is all in vain, and based on questionable data. I think it might not be anywhere near the Indian Ocean, too much guess work and little facts.
    Can you call the flight path '' fact'' ....... I dunno . How stupid would they look it plane turns up on ground else where.

    I tend to agree with this- how many days has it been now since they said that MH370 "ended in the Indian Ocean", and based on what? A few grainy satellite images of grainy large objects that could be anything from a few pallets to seaweed or any other debris common to busy shipping lanes. What evidence is there that this plane 100% definitely crashed in the Indian Ocean. And now they think its 700 miles north of where they were searching..

    I get that they want to inform every single finding to the world so they are not accused of hiding anything but seriously, the paranoid satellite companies terrified of revealing anything of their systems is turning the investigation into a joke. What am i missing here, what evidence exactly states that this debris IS MH370 and nothing else, are they just too scared to admit it or what? Surely military radar can track anything on the planet and here was this plane cruising in the middle of the ocean and nobody noticed anything...


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    #4807
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    Aren't you missing one small thing which basically destroys all of the above theories- the fact that one of the communications system was switched off BEFORE the co pilot made his last message back to air traffic control, which points to a series of deliberate and well planned actions. Why this was done is obviously unknown and debatable but the fact that the system was switched off before last contact pretty much rules out any sudden or catastrophic event which took everyone by surprise..

    I think he's covered that in Number 4
    4/ Well executed & well planned Pilot or Co pilot suicide.

    Though I'd probably make it number 1 at this stage.


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    #4808
    sully2010
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭sully2010


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    I tend to agree with this- how many days has it been now since they said that MH370 "ended in the Indian Ocean", and based on what? A few grainy satellite images of grainy large objects that could be anything from a few pallets to seaweed or any other debris common to busy shipping lanes. What evidence is there that this plane 100% definitely crashed in the Indian Ocean. And now they think its 700 miles north of where they were searching..

    I get that they want to inform every single finding to the world so they are not accused of hiding anything but seriously, the paranoid satellite companies terrified of revealing anything of their systems is turning the investigation into a joke. What am i missing here, what evidence exactly states that this debris IS MH370 and nothing else, are they just too scared to admit it or what? Surely military radar can track anything on the planet and here was this plane cruising in the middle of the ocean and nobody noticed anything...

    I would reckon they do have evidence of some sort but are not saying it.


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    #4809
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    fits wrote: »
    At this stage I believe if they find any wreckage at all it will be a miracle. As for black box? never gonna be recovered imo. Which is a shame as it means we will never find out what happened. More so for families than random eejits on the net like me.

    to be honest, I haven't been really following the news lately, but to me it all points to the possibility that the plane was shot down by mistake, and whoever did this, knows where the plane is and has covered their tracks.

    These "objects" could easily have been planted. Like you said no one will ever know the truth until the black box is found.


    The area where the plane is suppose to now be in - would this not be in Australia airspace, the idea that this plane was not detected by anyone seems very odd to me - and leads to possible cover up.


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    #4810
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    Ace2007 wrote: »


    The area where the plane is suppose to now be in - would this not be in Australia airspace, the idea that this plane was not detected by anyone seems very odd to me - and leads to possible cover up.

    Search area is 1800km from Perth. That's the distance between Dublin and Croatia.


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    #4811
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    Search area is 1800km from Perth. That's the distance between Dublin and Croatia.

    and who should be looking at that airspace?
    I would assume that to a certain point Australia would monitor and someone else the other part, obv this doesn't happen.


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    #4812
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,884 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    I tend to agree with this- how many days has it been now since they said that MH370 "ended in the Indian Ocean", and based on what? A few grainy satellite images of grainy large objects that could be anything from a few pallets to seaweed or any other debris common to busy shipping lanes. What evidence is there that this plane 100% definitely crashed in the Indian Ocean. And now they think its 700 miles north of where they were searching......

    The satellite comms data indicated the aircraft signalled the satellite an a particular angle.......this gave rise to the North and South corridor.......as the angle of signal meant it has to be along this line at the point of contact.

    By later examining post incident flights the were able to see that the signal data did not match Northerly bound aircraft so the data indicated that it must be along the Southern arc.......couple this with the fuel load on board they worked out a maximum distance.

    They based this distance on either of 2 speeds......however perhaps the aircraft was travelling faster than usual....thus it would have run out of fuel earlier......so the search box is moved further to the North East.



    And BTW, military's all over the world would like us to think they have the capability to track every moving object. They don't.


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    #4813
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    and who should be looking at that airspace?
    I would assume that to a certain point Australia would monitor and someone else the other part, obv this doesn't happen.

    Whose looking at that airspace? No idea but Australia is a gigantic country with huge expanses of space. Like you I'd assume there are radars close to the main airports, but looking out to sea nearly 2000km? There would only be short range radar interested in aircraft entering their airspace.


    Defence radars are set up for early warning of enemy attack. Australia has no enemies to the west, Africa or East, New Zealand.


    The only land to the south is Antarctica. Another poster alluded to busy shipping lanes in that region, again it can't be that busy if only one civilian ship was able to the area. I would say nobody has radar coverage in that region. It's a bit remote.


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    #4814
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,150 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Possible truth is that it was shot down, and we are watching a very big cover up. It's a cover up that only the people at the very top know about, the Malaysians are but pawns in this game. They have been fed information to lead them to a fictional crash sight, and where is best place to make them look? .. a place where nothing could ever be found.

    The debris is an added bonus to the people behind the cover up. A jet of that size would not get near another country without identifying itself .


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    #4815
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    Couple of pointers just on the first paragraph. US "drones" are only controlled locally for take off and landing from Kandahar air base. Once in the air control is handed over to pilots in Nevada and ramstien. The local control centers are in compounds within compounds and are in ISO containers. They do not fit in civilian aircraft.

    Hilltop forward operating bases, FOB's are used by infantry to put boots on the ground to observe enemy movement or close with and destroy the enemy.

    I didn't really read the rest, sorry. Good story if Tom Clancy was still around.

    Ha ha- I got as far as "disabled the pilot control system and switched over to remote control mode"!

    Fascinating.


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    #4816
    wil
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    Whose looking at that airspace? No idea but Australia is a gigantic country with huge expanses of space. Like you I'd assume there are radars close to the main airports, but looking out to sea nearly 2000km? There would only be short range radar interested in aircraft entering their airspace.


    Defence radars are set up for early warning of enemy attack. Australia has no enemies to the west, Africa or East, New Zealand.


    The only land to the south is Antarctica. Another poster alluded to busy shipping lanes in that region, again it can't be that busy if only one civilian ship was able to the area. I would say nobody has radar coverage in that region. It's a bit remote.

    Cant imagine anyone being able to justify cost of it either - nearest land is about 4 hours flight away, On the route to nowhere, would be the quietest radar post in the world. I am guessing too that there is so little going on there that even satellite coverage is not likely to ever be more that occasional or sparse.

    I wonder if people at Google are looking at this with their mapping and image recognition technology. Could aid SAR search sat photos for potential debris with a comprehensive db of usual sea objects.


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    #4817
    sully2010
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭sully2010


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Possible truth is that it was shot down, and we are watching a very big cover up. It's a cover up that only the people at the very top know about, the Malaysians are but pawns in this game. They have been fed information to lead them to a fictional crash sight, and where is best place to make them look? .. a place where nothing could ever be found.

    The debris is an added bonus to the people behind the cover up. A jet of that size would not get near another country without identifying itself .

    If it was shot down where would that be? surely debris would be seen by satellites, ships etc if it was blown up midair, pieces would be all over the ocean.


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    #4818
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    sully2010 wrote: »
    If it was shot down where would that be? surely debris would be seen by satellites, ships etc if it was blown up midair, pieces would be all over the ocean.

    could be anywhere, is it nearly 3 weeks since it went missing, I've heard reports every day that it's one place, no wait it's over here, then over there.
    Now they are searching close to Australia.

    These satellites should have a better idea from early on, likewise the argument about the ship - if it crashed in the ocean, which apparently is a busy shipping lane, some ship would have seen it?

    would I be wrong in saying, all they would need to find is the black box and destroy that, and the rest of the plane could be left floating about - and provide very little evidence about what happened.


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    #4819
    sully2010
    Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭sully2010


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    could be anywhere, is it nearly 3 weeks since it went missing, I've heard reports every day that it's one place, no wait it's over here, then over there.
    Now they are searching close to Australia.

    These satellites should have a better idea from early on, likewise the argument about the ship - if it crashed in the ocean, which apparently is a busy shipping lane, some ship would have seen it?

    would I be wrong in saying, all they would need to find is the black box and destroy that, and the rest of the plane could be left floating about - and provide very little evidence about what happened.

    Whos they?


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    #4820
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,150 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Could have been shot down over land, a remote jungle or mountainous area. And as for debris they are finding in indian ocean, it could have been dropped there, it could be part of cover up to drop pieces of a 747 into Indian Ocean to paint a picture to the world.


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    #4821
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Could have been shot down over land, a remote jungle or mountainous area,as for debris the are finding in indian ocean, it could have been dropped there, it could be part of cover up to drop pieces of a 747 into Indian Ocean to paint a picture to the world.

    Very poor cover up if they're dropping pieces of the wrong type of plane into the ocean.


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    #4822
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,150 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Very poor cover up if they're dropping pieces of the wrong type of plane into the ocean.


    That would be my mistake. 777


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    #4823
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,150 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Piers Morgan just bowed out for the last time. O well, he always had some well informed guests regarding all things ,370 search.
    Signed off with a plea for more gun control...I'll stay on topic.


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    #4824
    pfurey101
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭pfurey101


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    I feel that maybe this search is all in vain, and based on questionable data. I think it might not be anywhere near the Indian Ocean, too much guess work and little facts.
    Can you call the flight path '' fact'' ....... I dunno . How stupid would they look it plane turns up on ground else where.

    Google what the Inmarsat boffins did with the "hello, how are you" pings. Brilliant stuff.


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    #4825
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    sully2010 wrote: »
    Whos they?

    whoever shot it down.


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    #4826
    wolfeye
    Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭wolfeye


    Here is an article from may 2013 saying that boeing 777-200 and 300
    jetliners need to be fixed to prevent the possibility of a crash from an in-flight entertainment system fire.

    In a proposed order to be published in the Federal Register Friday, the FAA says wiring systems in about 59 U.S.-registered 777-200 and 777-300 planes must be modified.
    The proposed order requires installing wires and changing electricity load-management-systems panels to ensure pilots are able to use a switch in the cockpit to turn off power to the entertainment systems if a fire breaks out.
    Without such capability, the FAA says, pilots might not be able "to control smoke or flames in the airplane flight deck or passenger cabin" and could lose control of the plane.


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2013/05/09/boeing-777-fires/2147173/



    Maybe the switch was not installed in the malaysian plane?
    Then there was a fire caused by the entertainment system.
    So the pilot turned off all the electrical systems to try and isolate the cause of smoke and fire and in doing so turned off the transponders and acars?.
    Possibly once the systems were turned off the pilot could not get them up and running again due to fire damaging electrical wires?.


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    #4827
    warren44
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭warren44


    What makes it so hard to believe it was hijacked and landed in some covert area? We all know atleast from what they say, the comm system was intentionally disabled to conceal its position and it flew at a low altitude at one point most likely to avoid radar.. Just because someone somewhere says inmarsat saw some pings so they must have crashed in the Indian ocean doesnt make it so. Those pings can be spoofed.


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    #4828
    Growler!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    warren44 wrote: »
    What makes it so hard to believe it was hijacked and landed in some covert area? We all know atleast from what they say, the comm system was intentionally disabled to conceal its position and it flew at a low altitude at one point most likely to avoid radar.. Just because someone somewhere says inmarsat saw some pings so they must have crashed in the Indian ocean doesnt make it so. Those pings can be spoofed.

    how?


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    #4829
    amkin25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭amkin25


    How do we know it was intentionally turned off,nobody found the black box so nobody knows wether it was turned off or just stopped working.

    It could have stopped working when it was hit by a missile.


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    #4830
    warren44
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭warren44


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    how?

    Without going into the details how to impersonate the terminal that was on board, it is not something that would be that hard to achieve given the degree of low level encryption if any was implemented. Also the means they used to guesstimate where the plane was when responded to the last ping if it was the actual terminal that indeed respond to the ping is very crude and not accurate since it was using a global beam and not a smaller localized spot beam.

    There also was reports of a computer security specialist in the past a few years ago who was able to impersonate part of the system leading a plane to believe it was indeed communicating and receiving data from a legitimate source when infact it was not. There are a few countries out there that are very good with breaking encryption, and possess the proper technical ability to impersonate said terms.

    Also it is not impossible for the comm system to be jammed leaving it unable to communicate either.

    But didnt they release information saying part of these comm systems were down before this guys last verbal VHF transmission?


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    #4831
    warren44
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭warren44


    amkin25 wrote: »
    How do we know it was intentionally turned off,nobody found the black box so nobody knows wether it was turned off or just stopped working.

    It could have stopped working when it was hit by a missile.

    They said they still had VHF radio communication with them after part of the comm system was turned off. But then again VHF transmissions are not encrypted at all and anyone with a transciever with the correct frequency and repeater input/outputs could have been able to say "good night"


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