Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Red Pepper

Thrill wrote: »

CCTV: Chinese vessel hears ping for second day in a row, no confirmation it's Flight 370

I hope it's not this Russian guy, he was a divil for those pings!

Tenger

Duiske wrote: »

I don't think so. My own guess at how this ping was located is that it was first picked up by a Chinese submarine, which then directed a Chinese ship to the area to take the credit........Far from showcasing the ability of its military, i think the Chinese may be actively hiding it in this case.

My point was written before these 2 'pings pulses' were discovered.

I was referring to the initial Chinese surge of planes and ships into the South China Sea....the quick offer of diverting several sats.....followed a week later by the dispatch of Chinese aircraft to Perth to scour the Southern Indian Ocean.

I would be in agreement on the possibility of US submarine presence without anyone willing to mention them. However please note that the PLAN do not have a great record with Submarines.


My worry with these sub surface pings os that they are yet another false report which gets family's hopes up. I actually spotted a Malaysian aircraft yesterday ( in CDG) and wondered how the crews feel....not knowing how their colleagues peroshed, weeks after the event.

Technoprisoner

im not that confident at all that these pings will find the aircraft.... was there not something about shrimp or lobsters that give off a similar frequency??

tharmor

Can we be 100 % sure that flight recorder will have the ping activated ?? When does it get activated ?

billie1b

tharmor wrote: »

Can we be 100 % sure that flight recorder will have the ping activated ?? When does it get activated ?

On impact

NicoleL88

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10748223/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-purposely-flown-around-Indonesian-airspace.html
Few sources talking about this.

sopretty

I hate these 'unnamed sources'. :mad:

Happyman42

FDR activates on contact with water I think

Tenger

tharmor wrote: »

Can we be 100 % sure that flight recorder will have the ping activated ?? When does it get activated ?

As above....contact with water and/or high G impact activate the pinger and stop the recording.

Problem of course it the possible over write on the CVR of the vital time just after the last ATC comms. FDR will at least have data on all inputs to flight controls.

lazza14

tharmor wrote: »

Can we be 100 % sure that flight recorder will have the ping activated ?? When does it get activated ?

Pinger is activated once the BB comes into contact with water .

Yael

I think the authorities in the USA, Britain China Australia and Malaysia and probably more countries know much more about what happened to the MH370 plane, than they reveal to the public.

As it was mentioned here before the US is very quiet about the whole issue.

On the news channel that I watched, mainly Sky News and BBC and a bit on Cnn - there were mostly experts or retired officials giving assessments.
There were almost no working officials, maybe none at all, from the aviation authorities or any other
relevant field interviewed and referring to the issue.
If this is a real mystery you'd expect the authorities to relate to some of the questions and to the implications of this case to aviation security, and security overall.

I think the reason there were almost no statements from current officials in the US or other countries about the questions on this case or expressions of concerns about it, is maybe because they have some idea of what happened.

When officials talked - they related to the topic of the search, not about the mystery.
So I get the impressionfor that for them the issue may not be a mystery. They know more about what happened than they share with the public.

wil

SpaceTime wrote: »

I hope that I'm wrong, but that's how it reads to me having done a bit of research on the Malaysian political system. It's really been a country that I wasn't aware of but it's now on my list of places not to go on vacation to!

Make sure you're informed about the politics before you make judgements. It's not a normal country and I have a bad sense that politics may have been entering aspects of what should be a very focused investigation.

Also, I think many countries involved don't want to reveal their military, radar and satellite capabilities (or lack of in some cases).

China is very keen to show off its abilities though!

MH370 has certainly shone a harsh spotlight on a country normally used to staying firmly out of the news.
To risk a short OT, a beautiful, interesting, varied and surprising country, don't be so quick to exclude it from your holidays. Safe,(some parts excepted), never cold, plus much more for another discussion.

I am struggling to find a metaphor, but it might be like saying not to come to Ireland because of FFs connection with the banking collapse.

A exploration re MH370 and Malaysian politics in this Washington Post article is a bit more informative.

seal57

Yael wrote: »

I think the authorities in the USA, Britain China Australia and Malaysia and probably more countries know much more about what happened to the MH370 plane, than they reveal to the public.

As it was mentioned here before the US is very quiet about the whole issue.

On the news channel that I watched, mainly Sky News and BBC and a bit on Cnn - there were mostly experts or retired officials giving assessments.
There were almost no working officials, maybe none at all, from the aviation authorities or any other
relevant field interviewed and referring to the issue.
If this is a real mystery you'd expect the authorities to relate to some of the questions and to the implications of this case to aviation security, and security overall.

I think the reason there were almost no statements from current officials in the US or other countries about the questions on this case or expressions of concerns about it, is maybe because they have some idea of what happened.

When officials talked - they related to the topic of the search, not about the mystery.
So I get the impressionfor that for them the issue may not be a mystery. They know more about what happened than they share with the public.

Bingo, its all about who is not saying what or anything. They know where the plane is. They all have reasons for not saying yet. As long as they can continue to Float new search information and appear to have everyone focused on the south Indian ocean, they are buying more time. They are feeding the press as if they are hungry dogs starving for search information and the press has bought into this whole incident hook, line and sinker.

mbur

NicoleL88 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10748223/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-purposely-flown-around-Indonesian-airspace.html
Few sources talking about this.

If we go with the hijack theory we could suggest that the passengers were unaware that anything was wrong when the plane was over Malasian cellphone airspace so our clever hijacker was safe to fly there. By the time we would be over Indonesia maybe there would be suspicion in the cabin so a diversion might be wise. Never mind the hijacker's fear of Indonesian reaction to any incursion. The known trajectory looks like a calculated effort to get into the Indian Ocean asap. I think this pretty much rules out any suicide/murder explanation.

We might also be on the lookout for any cellphone contact storys from Malaysia. It could be that our hijacker miscalculated and maybe some careless person on board heard their phone ringing and upon investigation found that thay were connected to the Malaysian network, thus raising some sort of alarm while the plane was over Malaysia.

I'm not welded to any particular explanation of this awful event btw. I'll leave it to some better person to put it all together.

BarryBrack1

mbur wrote: »

If we go with the hijack theory we could suggest that the passengers were unaware that anything was wrong when the plane was over Malasian cellphone airspace so our clever hijacker was safe to fly there. By the time we would be over Indonesia maybe there would be suspicion in the cabin so a diversion might be wise. Never mind the hijacker's fear of Indonesian reaction to any incursion. The known trajectory looks like a calculated effort to get into the Indian Ocean asap. I think this pretty much rules out any suicide/murder explanation.

We might also be on the lookout for any cellphone contact storys from Malaysia. It could be that our hijacker miscalculated and maybe some careless person on board heard their phone ringing and upon investigation found that thay were connected to the Malaysian network, thus raising some sort of alarm while the plane was over Malaysia.

I'm not welded to any particular explanation of this awful event btw. I'll leave it to some better person to put it all together.

I've just joined this thread so haven't read it all? Many people talking bout it being shot down by accident and conspiracy coverup ?

SpaceTime

wil wrote: »

I am struggling to find a metaphor, but it might be like saying not to come to Ireland because of FFs connection with the banking collapse.
.

Many many times more extreme than that.
Ireland ranks as 13th most democratic country in the world (ahead of Germany, UK, USA, Japan, Belgium, Spain, France, Italy etc)... Malaysia comes in at 64th..

We score joint 1st place for civil liberties btw! (Our score comes down a bit because of 'functioning of government' mostly).

(Economist Intelligence Unit).

I just think any country that can lock someone up on sodomy charges (dubious ones at that) is not worth visiting. I'd have a massive problem visiting / supporting a country that lacks gay rights for a start and the political issues around probably trumped up charges don't add to my impressions of the place. I hadn't realised that it was that conservative before I read up on it.

But, in general I just think one needs to read the political background before jumping to any conclusions about the pilots etc.

Mountainsandh

Before I post my link I'd like to repeat that I'm not into CT normally, but this case is such a mess, with such a load of misinformation, or at least, suspected misinformation, that I find my mind is open to anything and everything.

So, I'm learning bits and pieces about areas in the world I've never been to, and did not know about, and was reading the wiki on the Cocos islands, and am feeling a bit unnerved about this bit :

Strategic importance[edit]
The Cocos Islands are geostrategically important because of their proximity to Indian Ocean and South China Sea shipping lanes.[25] The United States Armed Forces have planned to construct airbases on the Cocos Islands, capable of supporting drone-based espionage and surveillance over the South China Sea.[26] Euronews described the plan as providing Australian support for increased American presence in Southeast Asia, but likely to upset Chinese officials.[27] James Cogan has written for the World Socialist Web Site that airbase construction at Cocos is one component of Obama's "pivot" towards Asia, facilitating control of the sea lanes between the Indian and Pacific Oceans and potentially allowing US forces to enforce a blockade against China.[25] After plans to construct airbases were leaked to the Washington Post, Australian defence minister Stephen Smith stated that the Australian government views "Cocos as being potentially a long-term strategic location, but that is down the track."[28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands

There is an airport there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands_Airport_-_RWY33.jpg
pretty much out of reach of the other islands if one wished to make it so.

It's that information from "a source" that the plane avoided Indonesia, but then from what they're feeding us, headed down South.
The Cocos are right on track.

Just another "messing with my head" bit.

Could it have been headed that way, but promptly shot down when ... someone figured out it was a hijacking headed for that spot ?

The runway is meant to be 1,525m, can't remember if that's enough for a plane this size. It would have less fuel by then.

warren44

mbur wrote: »

If we go with the hijack theory we could suggest that the passengers were unaware that anything was wrong when the plane was over Malasian cellphone airspace so our clever hijacker was safe to fly there. By the time we would be over Indonesia maybe there would be suspicion in the cabin so a diversion might be wise. Never mind the hijacker's fear of Indonesian reaction to any incursion. The known trajectory looks like a calculated effort to get into the Indian Ocean asap. I think this pretty much rules out any suicide/murder explanation.

We might also be on the lookout for any cellphone contact storys from Malaysia. It could be that our hijacker miscalculated and maybe some careless person on board heard their phone ringing and upon investigation found that thay were connected to the Malaysian network, thus raising some sort of alarm while the plane was over Malaysia.

I'm not welded to any particular explanation of this awful event btw. I'll leave it to some better person to put it all together.

This is so far fetched its not worth taking it any further. If hijackers were really worried about cellphone activity they could simply bring a cellphone jammer with them on the plane. Theylook exactly like anordinary cellphone but it jams the signals you can buy them for $50 - $100

Also cellphones dont work on airplanes once you are above 15,000 feet off the ground. The repeaters dont beam signals northbound above their antennas so any microwave transmissions signals dissipate above the repeater. Havnt you ever tried to use your cellphone on a plane? The only time it works is just as you are landing and taking off.

warren44

Mountainsandh wrote: »

pretty much out of reach of the other islands if one wished to make it so.

It's that information from "a source" that the plane avoided Indonesia, but then from what they're feeding us, headed down South.
The Cocos are right on track.

Just another "messing with my head" bit.

Could it have been headed that way, but promptly shot down when ... someone figured out it was a hijacking headed for that spot ?

The runway is meant to be 1,525m, can't remember if that's enough for a plane this size. It would have less fuel by then.

I doubt this plane was shot down. There is also no reason Australia would shoot a hijacked plane down if it were headed for the Cocos Islands. There is nothing there of strategic importantance for a terrorist to attack and there is nothing there military wise worth defending since there are no airbases constructed there. All of that in the wiki article was just a plan that has not come to fruition.

fits

Australian ship has detected signals consistent with those omitted by Black boxes.

1st signal held for 2 hrs and 20 minutes

2nd detection held for 13 minutes but more important two "distinct" signals were heard.

They haven't found the aircraft yet and he stressed this so to use the info sensibly
until the signals could be verified.

Depth here is 4,500 metres !

fits

Link to latest press conference here

http://english.astroawani.com/videos/show/buletin-awani/sidang-media-jacc-12-10pm-7-4-2014-29080

Mountainsandh

fits wrote: »

Australian ship has detected signals like those omitted by Black boxes.

1st signal held for 2 hrs and 20 minutes

2nd detection held for 13 minutes but more important two "distinct" signals were heard.

They haven't found the aircraft yet and he stressed this so to use the info sensibly
until the signals could be verified.

Depth here is 4,500 metres !

Talk of worst case scenario... it will take ages to find anything at that depth...

I doubt this plane was shot down. There is also no reason Australia would shoot a hijacked plane down if it were headed for the Cocos Islands. There is nothing there of strategic importantance for a terrorist to attack and there is nothing there military wise worth defending since there are no airbases constructed there. All of that in the wiki article was just a plan that has not come to fruition.

Well I'm glad that's cleared. I take it you were there recently, any pics for us ? Would love to see it in real life.

fits

I wouldn't call this worst case scenario. Id call it a miracle if that's the plane. If they can locate it they'll get to wreckage eventually.

Mountainsandh

Well yes it's a miracle if they have indeed located it, but as regards distance, if I recall right, 4,500 m depth would be near the worst case scenario in Indian Ocean ? Can't remember what the deepest measure there was, close to 4500 no ?

edit : wow, scrap that. Just checked depth, although average depth is 3890 m, the deepest point in Diamantina Deep is 8,047 m. So 4500m is far, but not that far.

Calina

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Before I post my link I'd like to repeat that I'm not into CT normally, but this case is such a mess, with such a load of misinformation, or at least, suspected misinformation, that I find my mind is open to anything and everything.

So, I'm learning bits and pieces about areas in the world I've never been to, and did not know about, and was reading the wiki on the Cocos islands, and am feeling a bit unnerved about this bit :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands

There is an airport there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands_Airport_-_RWY33.jpg
pretty much out of reach of the other islands if one wished to make it so.

It's that information from "a source" that the plane avoided Indonesia, but then from what they're feeding us, headed down South.
The Cocos are right on track.

Just another "messing with my head" bit.

Could it have been headed that way, but promptly shot down when ... someone figured out it was a hijacking headed for that spot ?

The runway is meant to be 1,525m, can't remember if that's enough for a plane this size. It would have less fuel by then.

I've read similar essays from people who know nothing about other parts of the world regarding the Maldives.

The Keeling Islands are a tourist destination. There are flights from Perth there a couple of times a week. It's particularly a target location for discerning windsurfers and kitesurfers. I know this because it is on my list of holidays for a long time and is probably number one choice for a honeymoon if I ever get married. The primary issue is the additional time to get there and the fact that the flights can be expensive. I have already looked at the trip in detail several times.

Building a conspiracy theory on the basis of a bunch of islands that until very recently you'd never heard of is really not a productive use of your time.

Spring Onion

Calina wrote: »

Building a conspiracy theory on the basis of a bunch of islands that until very recently you'd never heard of is really not a productive use of your time.

Ouch!

K.Flyer

If they are onto something with the latest signals that they are picking up then there is still the question of the debris.
Certainly after a month the debris will be nowhere near the crash area, but you would think with all the searching they would have found something by now.
In the back of my mind I keep thing of an elaborate suicide / mass murder scenario.
I suggested before that the plane may have been put down on the sea relatively in one piece and sank. But someone else said that they can stay afloat if that was done.
Thinking about it now, if it was the case, all they had to do was figure a way of letting water into the plane and it would sink quick enough leaving little or no trace of its location.
Hopefully it will be found, and then some questions can be answered.

Calina

K.Flyer wrote: »

If they are onto something with the latest signals that they are picking up then there is still the question of the debris.
Certainly after a month the debris will be nowhere near the crash area, but you would think with all the searching they would have found something by now.
In the back of my mind I keep thing of an elaborate suicide / mass murder scenario.
I suggested before that the plane may have been put down on the sea relatively in one piece and sank. But someone else said that they can stay afloat if that was done.
Thinking about it now, if it was the case, all they had to do was figure a way of letting water into the plane and it would sink quick enough leaving little or no trace of its location.
Hopefully it will be found, and then some questions can be answered.

Opening the one of the backdoors would fill the plane with water if the plane is slightly tail down in the water.

Secondly - and this seems to be something people have trouble with - the search area is massive. Even the smaller search areas are massive. We do not know for certain where it crashed so not finding the debris field in my view is not sinister.

Mountainsandh

Calina wrote: »

Building a conspiracy theory on the basis of a bunch of islands that until very recently you'd never heard of is really not a productive use of your time

Believe it or not, I knew about the kite surfing and tourism aspect too, by learning about places, I meant learning more than just that.

If we are ok to recommend how to use one's time, I would suggest that perhaps you might have better things to do than to post condescending advice online, Calina.

lazza14

With the lack of debris spotted - is it possible for a plane to crash and remain intact (relatively) and just sink ? if it skims along the surface maybe ?