Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Jack1985

So it could be anywhere really...even on land?

Any idea's personally which country you think it is? Because to believe in the 21st Century a B772 can land undetected could be possibly the biggest lie sold by the media in recent times. I'll go with this just to show how ridiculous that argument is,

North: Nearly all land masses are monitored excruciatingly close, examples - Afghanistan (no chance-USAF monitoring), China (Also Monitored) etc
South: There is no land that is uninhabited that has not been checked where it could have possibly landed.

The reason the investigators informed the families there was no hope was because the above argument is just not credible, it gives unnecessary false hope to the families and its origin is from people who when in no receipt of factual information make up their own to feed there own cause, in the case of the media to make money - because that's all they care about.

warren44

Nonoperational wrote: »

It is just as disillusional to believe unfounded conspiracy theories as it is to blindly believe everything that we are told, yet it is a common tactic of the conspiracy theorists to ridicule people who tend to side with the mainstream view as opposed to jumping head-first into a sea of conspiracy theories, none of which have any evidence produced for them.

You see, Warren, the simple fact of the matter is that you don't know at all that the plane landed and the occupants dies of hypoxia. You are in fact clueless about the incident, as are we all.

No I am not clueless, that where your cocky ego is causing you to become vexed at an explanation that doesnt agree with yours. My theory is based on all of the information I have gathered and is why what I believe happened. Every scenario that doesnt agree with what you believe is a conspiracy theory. The fact of the matter is no one knows what happened. Your explanation is from what you see on TV and what the media and Malay guvts are feeding you and the rest of the people who believe everything they see on tv. You havnt formed much of anything on your own.

The media and the guvt is a joke. Stringing people along day by day. Oh we found this on the satellite, we saw that on the satellite, we heard this, when not 1 of these things they are saying has been proven. Nothing their satellites or ping locaters detected have anything to do with the plane at all. They have never confirmed anything with certainty. The onlything that is certain is the plain is missing.

stuar

Jack1985 wrote: »

Any idea's personally which country you think it is? Because to believe in the 21st Century a B772 can land undetected could be possibly the biggest lie sold by the media in recent times. I'll go with this just to show how ridiculous that argument is,

North: Nearly all land masses are monitored excruciatingly close, examples - Afghanistan (no chance-USAF monitoring), China (Also Monitored) etc
South: There is no land that is uninhabited that has not been checked where it could have possibly landed.

The reason the investigators informed the families there was no hope was because the above argument is just not credible, it gives unnecessary false hope to the families and its origin is from people who when in no receipt of factual information make up their own to feed there own cause, in the case of the media to make money - because that's all they care about.

The rumor going around Malaysia is it landed on Diego Garcia, the eyewitness accounts on the Maldives supports this rumor.

Ohh yea the Malaysians dismissed these accounts, but they also spent a week looking in the South China Sea knowing full well it had passed back over the Malaysian Penninsula.

Colser

Jack1985 wrote: »

Any idea's personally which country you think it is? Because to believe in the 21st Century a B772 can land undetected could be possibly the biggest lie sold by the media in recent times. I'll go with this just to show how ridiculous that argument is,

North: Nearly all land masses are monitored excruciatingly close, examples - Afghanistan (no chance-USAF monitoring), China (Also Monitored) etc
South: There is no land that is uninhabited that has not been checked where it could have possibly landed.

The reason the investigators informed the families there was no hope was because the above argument is just not credible, it gives unnecessary false hope to the families and its origin is from people who when in no receipt of factual information make up their own to feed there own cause, in the case of the media to make money - because that's all they care about.

But its totally acceptable that it can fly undetected for hours I suppose...

warren44

Jack1985 wrote: »

Any idea's personally which country you think it is? Because to believe in the 21st Century a B772 can land undetected could be possibly the biggest lie sold by the media in recent times. I'll go with this just to show how ridiculous that argument is,

North: Nearly all land masses are monitored excruciatingly close, examples - Afghanistan (no chance-USAF monitoring), China (Also Monitored) etc
South: There is no land that is uninhabited that has not been checked where it could have possibly landed.

The reason the investigators informed the families there was no hope was because the above argument is just not credible, it gives unnecessary false hope to the families and its origin is from people who when in no receipt of factual information make up their own to feed there own cause, in the case of the media to make money - because that's all they care about.

Thats the problem, people think because a plane is in the air that it can always be detected even with high tech radar when in fact things get past radars all of the time. Countries technology and military capabilities is not as hot **** as they lead everyone to believe. If you have ever served in the military or known anyone who has, you would have been told or know first hand how there are flaws, holes , or things that are just hype for the masses to believe. The things the military reports to the public compared to actual events are usually much different. They even tell their servicemen "your families will tell you things they saw on the news and TV and a lot of the times it wont even come close to what you know happened from being on the inside." Thats just the way it is.

There are always ways around things that can circumvent systems or security. Nothing is 100% and the people on the inside who have access to these systems and technology know where the holes are, the back doors and etc.;

Jack1985

Colser wrote: »

But its totally acceptable that it can fly undetected for hours I suppose...

Over an open Indian Ocean with no radar coverage and with systems responsible for its tracking shut-down. Yes that was the case.

Tenger

Can we all calm down a bit.

There have been several posts today that are threatening to cross the line into attacking the poster rather than the post.

We have posters who are challenging the public story yet offer no (currently proveable) alternative explanation. They are entitled to their opinion and should not be called idiots. However in the same vein just because someone does accepts the public story, doesn't mean they are an idiot either.

The Mods don't want to be giving out bans

Peppa Pig

warren44 wrote: »

My theory is based on all of the information I have gathered and is why what I believe happened...... Your explanation is from what you see on TV and what the media and Malay guvts are feeding you and the rest of the people who believe everything they see on tv.

Other than the media and the various government press conferences, which is all the rest of us have access to, where else have you been able to gather information?

robbieVan

Colser wrote: »

More dumbos spouting BS Robbie? I hope theres enough tinfoil hats to go around...

yup pretty much!.. have you read them?.. I just did, it's just crap, there is probably a .0000000000001% it landed somewhere undetected so the papers are just gonna pounce on that for a while until something else comes up, when there's no news , new news is made up, no evidence whatsoever it landed somewhere, they're just trying to get people to read their papers, I cant wait until it's found in the ocean and I'm gonna come back on here and all the keyboard warrior will be nowhere to be found i'm sure

sopretty

robbieVan wrote: »

no evidence whatsoever it landed somewhere

But you're willing to believe it crashed into the Indian ocean somewhere, with no evidence of that either?

the_monkey

warren44 wrote: »

The plane landed on solid ground. After it was stripped of its top secret cargo it was destroyed. Unfortunately the passengers expired due to hypoxia.

Right so it wouldn't have been easier to launch an op to get this "secret cargo" before it got on a plane and was 35,000 ft in the air ??

I wonder what the "secret cargo" is ?

I bet it's the new Furby range ... :rolleyes:

robbieVan

One of the articles has the headline "plane may have landed somewhere etc"
and then you read the article and it says "the possibility of a specific country hiding a plane with 20 nations searching for it is absurd" .. the headlines are just to get you onto their site and then they pretty much disprove the headline anyway but they got you reading and on their website so it doesnt matter, because at the end of the day they show the people who advertise on it the volume of hits their website has and they pay more and more money to advertise on it, that's the basis for 90% of these BS articles, also the fact that their source is a 'media report'.. come on lads use your cop on and see through the clouds

sopretty wrote: »

But you're willing to believe it crashed into the Indian ocean somewhere, with no evidence of that either?

It really is like going around in circles with you lot, where did you all go wrong growing up, I'm willing to believe what 20 nations, governments, air crash investigators etc etc all say because they are professionals, they know what they are doing, just some random people like you believing anything they read and coming up with their own theories are quite hard to trust over that? do you not think?

Calina

This thread is utterly depressing today.

When I review the actual news, there isn't any change, the plane is still missing, the most reliable information says south Indian Ocean somewhere.

Jack1985

But you're willing to believe it crashed into the Indian ocean somewhere, with no evidence of that either?

Are you actually serious? or do you enjoy trolling on here everyday?

folbotcar

I rarely dip into this thread or frankly any forum dealing with this subject because I know the people with imbalances in their brain chemistry are having a field day with this one. (Google excessive dopamine and conspiracy theories. Very revealing)

But it's worth supporting the comments of people trying to inject some reality into this thread and also inform those normal people who might find some conspiracy theories plausible.

The Diego Garcia plot is easily the most ridiculous. A simple question. Why? What possible motivation would the US military have to bring it there? Plus there's the sheer impossibility of keeping it hidden on what is tiny island full of independent minded Americans. The idea is beyond laughable.

Then there's the idea that something as big as a 777 couldn't just disappear with all our modern technology. This simply displays a touching faith in technology and the people who operate it. Not to mention a failure to grasp just how small even a 777 is over a large remote ocean particularly when it's clear it was deliberately diverted there.

The Earth is still a big place, something many seem to have forgotten. It is easy to disappear without trace. AF447 was only found with a lot of trouble even though it's general position was known. MH370 was deliberately disappeared in a pre planned act. It'll probably never be found.

Which of course means the nutjobs will never let this go.

Nonoperational

warren44 wrote: »

No I am not clueless, that where your cocky ego is causing you to become vexed at an explanation that doesnt agree with yours. My theory is based on all of the information I have gathered and is why what I believe happened. Every scenario that doesnt agree with what you believe is a conspiracy theory. The fact of the matter is no one knows what happened. Your explanation is from what you see on TV and what the media and Malay guvts are feeding you and the rest of the people who believe everything they see on tv. You havnt formed much of anything on your own.

The media and the guvt is a joke. Stringing people along day by day. Oh we found this on the satellite, we saw that on the satellite, we heard this, when not 1 of these things they are saying has been proven. Nothing their satellites or ping locaters detected have anything to do with the plane at all. They have never confirmed anything with certainty. The onlything that is certain is the plain is missing.

And what opinion did I give about it? What I said is that the statement you made, as if it was fact, stating that the plane landed somewhere and the passengers died of hypoxia cannot be supported by one shred of factual evidence. I shudder to think of the logistics of keeping quiet the number of people that would have to be involved in such a conspiracy.

It's all very well to call everyone a joke and to imply that you have achieved an understanding of this event that is above the rest of us sheep, but you cannot back up what you suggest with concrete evidence. For all intents and purposes, you are indeed clueless with respect to what happened to this aircraft. We all are.

It is my opinion that the plane is in the ocean somewhere, but the with the bizarreness of the whole situation I wouldn't state it with anything like the certainty you state your "theory". Believe me, a cocky ego is the last think I have when I discuss this case. It just disappoints me that people make comments with such certainty and dismiss people who don't have the same opinion as clueless fools. If you believe the media you are a hapless sheep who cannot think for himself, but if you believe a conspiracy theory with no proof you are some sort of enlightened individual. Righteo. Feel free to provide evidence of your theory. I would like to see it.

Mountainsandh

folbotcar

Why willingly make it disappear though ?

Why the direction changes ?

Why head for the Indian Ocean ?

You are questioning the possible motives for a hijack, yet the motives for redirecting this plane to a certain fate in the Indian Ocean are just as questionable.

Pilot suicide does not really explain the prolonged flight to ditch it in the most remote area one could possibly imagine.

Some people argue that radars cover every possible area that plane could have flown to up North.

Really ?

How do you know ?

How do you know what Myanmar's (Burma's) radar coverage is extensive ? I mean, how do you know it for a fact, rather than what they tell us ?

How do you know China's coverage of the wilderness along Bhutan and Nepal is extensive ? because they tell you/us that ?

How do you know that little stretch of Indian land North of Bangladesh is well covered by radar ? because they tell us that ?

Notice that I'm leaving out Bangladesh, because somehow I think they might just be on the ball. But then again, what/who tells us that ?

Look at Thailand and Malaysia's avoidance of the whole radar detection issue, look at their reluctance to release any bit of info.

We the public, would be the last to know if one of these countries were uncertain as to their detection capacity for that particular night/morning, in the arc area.

Motives are a puzzle anyway.

Why head North West if it was a technical problem ?

What about the 4 ELTs some say the plane is equipped with ? 4 failures to function ?

sopretty

Jack1985 wrote: »

Are you actually serious? or do you enjoy trolling on here everyday?

Jack, you missed a few critical little words on that chart which you so nicely provided me with - i.e. 'SATELLITE HANDSHAKE CALCULATION #7'. This is the path they 'felt' was most probable, not a proven path.

ETA - Inmarsat also charted paths into the northern corridor.

Spanish Eyes

Shot down. Mistaken for a rogue in the skies by some super duper surveillance technique.

No one will admit it. And no one will admonish their allies who did this either.

Red herrings all round.

But then again......who knows!

Sadly for the families of the lost. It doesn't matter what we think.

Calina

But having subsequently evaluated the behaviour of signals to the north using another of Malaysia Airlines planes decided the southern track was the more probable. Not withstanding that, the countries to the north were asked to take a look as well.

sopretty

Calina wrote: »

But having subsequently evaluated the behaviour of signals to the north using another of Malaysia Airlines planes decided the southern track was the more probable. Not withstanding that, the countries to the north were asked to take a look as well.

Yes, that's what I said.

Colser

folbotcar wrote: »

I rarely dip into this thread or frankly any forum dealing with this subject because I know the people with imbalances in their brain chemistry are having a field day with this one. (Google excessive dopamine and conspiracy theories. Very revealing)

But it's worth supporting the comments of people trying to inject some reality into this thread and also inform those normal people who might find some conspiracy theories plausible.

The Diego Garcia plot is easily the most ridiculous. A simple question. Why? What possible motivation would the US military have to bring it there? Plus there's the sheer impossibility of keeping it hidden on what is tiny island full of independent minded Americans. The idea is beyond laughable.

Then there's the idea that something as big as a 777 couldn't just disappear with all our modern technology. This simply displays a touching faith in technology and the people who operate it. Not to mention a failure to grasp just how small even a 777 is over a large remote ocean particularly when it's clear it was deliberately diverted there.

The Earth is still a big place, something many seem to have forgotten. It is easy to disappear without trace. AF447 was only found with a lot of trouble even though it's general position was known. MH370 was deliberately disappeared in a pre planned act. It'll probably never be found.

Which of course means the nutjobs will never let this go.

Can you provide a link /proof for that...it would save the search team a lot of time and money and might even give the nutjobs a reality check?

Mountainsandh

Calina wrote: »

But having subsequently evaluated the behaviour of signals to the north using another of Malaysia Airlines planes decided the southern track was the more probable. Not withstanding that, the countries to the north were asked to take a look as well.

A fairly tenuous piece of evidence though, that doppler effect.

Speed is a possible variant (altitude too ?), and it did not categorically rule out the Northern Corridor either, as far as I understand.
This type of analysis is ... "unprecedented". With all that entails...

The analysis showed poor correlation with the Northern corridor, but good correlation with the Southern corridor, and depending on the ground speed of the aircraft it was then possible to estimate positions at 0011 UTC, at which the last complete handshake took place. I must emphasise that this is not the final position of the aircraft.

http://theaviationist.com/2014/03/27/inmarsat-helps-finding-route/

Just to illustrate the question marks over the doppler effect inmarsat findings, here is link with a pretty clear explanation, but please do read the comments of people with knowledge of this area below.
http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2014/03/how-did-inmarsat-really-find-flight.html

Jack1985

sopretty wrote: »

Jack, you missed a few critical little words on that chart which you so nicely provided me with - i.e. 'SATELLITE HANDSHAKE CALCULATION #7'. This is the path they 'felt' was most probable, not a proven path.

ETA - Inmarsat also charted paths into the northern corridor.

I've provided you with that path what's your counter argument to back up the statement;

But you're willing to believe it crashed into the Indian ocean somewhere, with no evidence of that either?

What's your evidence to stop any of us willing to believe the initial findings? Which are the only concrete calculations so far into its last known position.

= =

It's also worrying that it seems those who believe it was landed on a remote island, went North or whatever other conspiracy theorem, would seem to actually prefer to see the search divert hundreds of thousands of miles away where there is not one bit of certainty regards position indications as there is on the southern track.

With all due respect (and I am not setting out to insult anybody), those involved in the search including the ATSB, NTSB, AAIB, BEA, FAA, FBI, EASA, ICAO, Boeing, Airbus, RR, MAS, Interpol and the Chinese/Malaysian States ALL have vast experience in these situations, whilst the exact events so far are unprecedented - when you take into account the known events it can be quickly seen how it is such a complex and difficult situation.

Now if the conspiracists insist on believing ALL the above agencies/company's/states have all colluded on a cover up over whatever proposed theorem then you are welcome to - but you are seriously opening up yourself to total alienation in this thread, the lack of respect shown to this industry by some as if aircraft can crash, people killed and we just move and forget is wholly unacceptable in my opinion. Aviation is not a sector which slips up on these situations, having learned hard lessons when it failed to do so, it is the one industry that has a process of review and correction to every incident in a timescale which some would struggle to fathom.

It is evident the majority of those throwing out the absurd suggestions seem to be actually only scrutinising there first aviation accident as it happens, seeming to expect answers pronto, recommendations by some before anything has even been found. You are massively in for a shock if you have such expectations, there will continue to be searches and they will not give up, they will find out what has happened, scrutinise it and make recommendations - the industry will then respond.

That's the end of my contribution to this particular thread, it is infuriating to watch on as valued contributors are driven out by this line of inquiry by some and it is deeply unfortunate that the thread continues this path without any sort of awakening to the actual situation.

Regards

Mountainsandh

This thread is titled "Speculation and Discussion".

The agencies involved in the search may simply be misinformed.

Mountainsandh

By the way, I asked a reasoned and reasonable question earlier on, that seemed to have been completely overlooked.

Was the plane fitted with 4 ELTs as claimed ?

I was reading about ELTs, and there seems to be a fairly high failure rate, especially for less recent ones, in the range of 80% reliability.

Do people include the FDR-CVR in the 4 ELTs listed, or is it 4 ELTs on top of FDR-CVR ?

folbotcar

Mountainsandh wrote: »

folbotcar

Why willingly make it disappear though ?

Don't ask me. I don't know. None of us know. Hence the speculation.

Colser wrote: »

Can you provide a link /proof for that...it would save the search team a lot of time and money and might even give the nutjobs a reality check?

I note your sarcasm. If there's one thing everyone agrees on then it's the reality that some person or person did this on purpose.

So what's your point or is your post simply an idle and pointless riposte to mine? Well at least you got a couple of likes out of it from your fans.

Tenger

Mountainsandh wrote: »

By the way, I asked a reasoned and reasonable question earlier on, that seemed to have been completely overlooked.

Was the plane fitted with 4 ELTs as claimed ?

I was reading about ELTs, and there seems to be a fairly high failure rate, especially for less recent ones, in the range of 80% reliability.

ELT's are separate/in addition to FDR's and CVR's.

A widebody aircraft will usually have 1-2 ELT fitted to the airframe, and 1 on each slideraft. These are however short range and with less battery duration than the Black Boxes.

ELT's have a auto setting which for example activates with contact to water. The failure rate may relate to this. They also have a manual switch. (some aircraft have them able to be detached by the crew)

LordSutch

Sp what do we "know for sure" about the disappearance of flight MH370?

OK, so we know for sure that it took off, we also know for sure that the pilot gave the last message to Kuala Lumpur air traffic control.

but then . . .

Do we know for sure that MH370 turned left, heading wildly off course?
Do we know for sdure that they then headed for the straits of Malacca?
Do we know for sure that they then flew down the southern corridor?
Do we know for sure that MH370 crashed into the southern Indian ocean?

What do we know for sure about this mystery, and what is calculated guesswork?

galwayjohn89

folbotcar wrote: »

I note your sarcasm. If there's one thing everyone agrees on then it's the reality that some person or person did this on purpose.

I'm still not ruling out the possibility this was an accident and not done deliberately.