Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Tenger

Tenger wrote: »

My thinking too at the time

Mountainsandh wrote: »

..... if indeed there was a slim possibility an aircraft may have flown undetected by military radar (anywhere for that matter), would authorities be able or inclined to publicise that ?....

I would agree that any hole in military coverage is not something that wil be made public I expect.

Mountainsandh

I was just googling that and one of the first links is to this article http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/world/asia/series-of-errors-by-malaysia-mounts-complicating-the-task-of-finding-flight-370.html?_r=0
Which I think is relevant and interesting.

I'm sure technical/electronic failures or glitches are also possible, no ?

smurfjed

Singapore spent a lot of money upgrading its Radar system last year....

There’s radar too, of which there are two kinds: primary radar sends out a burst of energy and waits for a reflection from an aircraft. Secondary radar instead interrogates a receiver placed aboard the airplane, which in turns answers with its identifier and altitude. Secondary radar has a longer range, about 250 nautical mile (460 kilometers); primary reaches less than half that distance. But primary works with any type of aircraft whether or not they’ve been equipped with the transmitter needed for secondary radar.

LORADS III has to make sense of all those signals to come up with a single set of information about the aircraft above Singapore. Thales’ proprietary solution, called Multi Sensor Track Processing, “takes all the different tracks from all the different radar, many ADS-B receivers, many wide area multilateration receivers, which is another type of surveillance, and turn it all up and says ‘of all the sensors that we have, this is the actual position of the aircraft’,” says Nabarro.

This system is also used by the Singapore military. Given their size, Singapore has a huge airforce with over 200 aircraft based in the country. Hence my amazement that any aircraft could fly over that country without question.


Next..

Mountainsandh

The link given by Mountainsandh to the NYTimes report talks about the Malaysia radar stations in Kota Bharu and Butterworth and the city of Penang, all of which are over 300 nm's north of Singapore.

So here we have the first error in Simon_Gunsons comments.....

Next..[/quote]

Hold your horses there a minute, my link was not intended to illustrate Singapore, but relevant to failure to detect aircraft. I am not Gunson so my contributions in no way replace his, which would probably be a lot more informed, and your quote is of little help since it simply states what the radar system is expected to do, not what its potential failures may be.

smurfjed

a blaze broke out in the avionics bay beneath the cockpit and quickly engulfed the cockpit. I believe the heat melted a hole in the fuselage hull which vented flames until all pressure inside the cabin was gone.

This would correlate very closely to what the oil rig worker Mike McKay sighted off Vietnam. He saw a bright flame which self extinguished after 10-15 seconds. That also makes sense because oxygen starvation would kill any blaze and leave the aircraft intact, able to continue flying.

Umm, i always thought that the B777 was a fly by wire aircraft...



So this blaze destroyed everything except the flyby wire system?

Mountainsandh

So in your opinion Smurfjed,

a) it is very unlikely ... impossible (?) that the aircraft may have flown over Singapore undetected, and that's flaw one in Gunson's theory
b) the other major flaw is that 777 is fly by wire meaning that a quick blaze/puncture in cockpit would have affected electrics bay to such an extent that the aircraft could not possibly have flown any further.

Do I understand right ?

I thought that the cockpit fire was a widely entertained idea amongst specialists, so that's news to me.

Any more flaws in the theory ?

(I don't like the rhetorical questions very much, they just bring an element of sarcasm that's unnecessary imho)

lord lucan

Can I remind people to not make it personal,by all means attack the post but don't attack the poster. Snide remarks and sarcasm can be misread without context(or smilies!) and open up a whole can of worms that didn't need to be ever opened.

intellectual dosser

Would I be alone in thinking that every nation in the world should be donating something to this effort? Something real, as in sailors and vessels (including Ireland). It's in everyones interests to learn what happened, and the world media have allowed it to be buried under Kim Khardashian's cleavage.

kippy

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Would I be alone in thinking that every nation in the world should be donating something to this effort? Something real, as in sailors and vessels (including Ireland). It's in everyones interests to learn what happened, and the world media have allowed it to be buried under Kim Khardashian's cleavage.

Well, TBF, resources are going towards it (weather I believe has been the big issue of late) and in the interim, especially of recent times, the Ebola crisis, the Ukraine downing of a jet and numerous other things have taken the headlines because it is currently not viable to search, however plans and resources are in place for one.

Mountainsandh

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1025570-malaysia-airlines-flight-370-satellite-company-says-uncertainty-around-final-location-of-plane/

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: Satellite Company Says There’s ‘Uncertainty’ Around Final Location of Plane


Also http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/570215/20141021/mh370-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-search-found.htm

According to News.com.au, scientist Aron Gingis claims that MH370 can be located "by identifying cloud changes for evidence of vapour trails caused by burning fuel emissions from the aircraft." Gingis is a hydrometerologist and head of environmental consultancy firm in Australia. He has specialised in cloud microphysics and claimed to have located a ship wreck using the said technology. For that he has used "ship trails" and archival data available through satellites to determine the changes in the clouds that occurred due to emissions of the "floating vessels."

So far his services have been refused.

keith16

Mountainsandh wrote: »

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1025570-malaysia-airlines-flight-370-satellite-company-says-uncertainty-around-final-location-of-plane/

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: Satellite Company Says There’s ‘Uncertainty’ Around Final Location of Plane

Understatement of the century right there.

Synode

Have airlines started implementing constant tracking of planes since this disaster?

the_monkey

looks like it

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31683363

KoolKid

Almost a year ago now. Unbelievable.

JONJO THE MISER

Is this a towelette from MH370? Investigations have started into a packet which washed up on a West Australian beach.

Very interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2987078/Is-towelette-MH370-Investigations-started-packet-washed-West-Australian-beach.html

jester77

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Is this a towelette from MH370? Investigations have started into a packet which washed up on a West Australian beach.

Very interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2987078/Is-towelette-MH370-Investigations-started-packet-washed-West-Australian-beach.html

eh, it's in perfect condition. Call me sceptical but I doubt something that spent more than a few days in rough water and exposed to the sun would look like that good.

roundymac

The fact that it is the Daily Mail who is reporting it makes it very doubtful IMO.

Cessna_Pilot

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Is this a towelette from MH370? Investigations have started into a packet which washed up on a West Australian beach.

Very interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2987078/Is-towelette-MH370-Investigations-started-packet-washed-West-Australian-beach.html

I think the word we're all thinking of is; bo***cks

LordSutch

Presuming MH370 took the southern corridor? can we tell if it was daylight or dark when she sent the final ping and crashed into the southern Indian ocean?

Curious.

Duiske

The last ping was about 8:10am (local time), so its believed the plane went down between then and when its next ping was due, 15mins later at 8:25am. If the plane went down in the area now being searched then it would have been daylight at the time.

Day/Night Map, 8th March 2014, 08:18am.

SteelyDanJalapeno

The tissue was found last July!

LordSutch

And I think its been confirmed that its not from the doomed flight, which leaves zero clues . . .

KoolKid

TiltedBrain wrote: »

The tissue was found last July!

Still in great shape 4 months after the event.

gumbo1

Eh, just to clear up something, channel 7 news in Australia done a reenactment of the napkin being found hence why it looks in such good nick! That's where the photos came from!

LordSutch

So its now over a year since MH370 disappeared and still nothing!

With no debris washed up anywhere . . .

:cool:

KoolKid

Not a thing. Is there anything even remotely close to this that has ever happened before?

knucklehead6

KoolKid wrote: »

Not a thing. Is there anything even remotely close to this that has ever happened before?

Amelia Earhart
Glenn Miller
Hell, Steve Fosset was missing for over a year ON LAND.

There are countless examples of aircraft going missing.
But as to whether or not there was ever anything the size of a triple 7 that has ever gone missing, nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aerial_disappearances

BlaasForRafa

KoolKid wrote: »

Not a thing. Is there anything even remotely close to this that has ever happened before?

Well, I know it's not an aircraft but the Australian cruiser HMAS Sydney went down off the west coast of Australia in 1941, in pretty much the same waters that MH370 is presumed to have gone down in, after a battle with the german merchant raider Kormoran. The entire complement of Sydney was lost, 645 men, the only wreckage found was a single shattered raft. The wreck of the Sydney wasn't discovered until 2008, almost 67 years later so it's quite possible that MH370 might not be found for a long time, if ever.

Synode

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The wreck of the Sydney wasn't discovered until 2008, almost 67 years later so it's quite possible that MH370 might not be found for a long time, if ever.

That's very sobering

kippy

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well, I know it's not an aircraft but the Australian cruiser HMAS Sydney went down off the west coast of Australia in 1941, in pretty much the same waters that MH370 is presumed to have gone down in, after a battle with the german merchant raider Kormoran. The entire complement of Sydney was lost, 645 men, the only wreckage found was a single shattered raft. The wreck of the Sydney wasn't discovered until 2008, almost 67 years later so it's quite possible that MH370 might not be found for a long time, if ever.

One has to ask was that because of advances in technology, a larger amount of funding going towards the search operation or indeed a stroke of good luck.
I dont think it will take as long to find the plane, purely because of the amount of effort, technology and money going into the search effort - indeed there is a worldwide demand for answers to the reasons why this plane disappeared in the first instance.
It does however show how difficult such a task is.