Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

sopretty

Admittedly, 'they' have said they are perplexed themselves.

aliveandkicking

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Look I know it is an aviation forum but most people reading this thread are ordinary people like myself who are just intrigued by the whole thing.

Exactly and I hazard a guess that most ordinary people logging on here are probably doing so in the hope of reading opinion from people who are clued in on aviation. I myself log in here read this forum for that very reason. If i want to read the rambling from a rag like the mirror, I will log onto the mirror's website. Here I like reading the opinions of people who are clued in on aviation.

Gator

As bad as the whole sitation is it is quite fascinating that a plane can just go missing.

I am looking at the telegraph and this was posted which I thougt was quite interesting



Having read a lot of the comments here and elsewhere, it seems that no one has mentioned the 777’s Aircraft Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS). This is entirely automated and cannot be switched off, it sends short messages directly to Boeing about the aircraft's systems etc. and reports every few minutes. In the case of AF447 its system (Airbus) was instrumental in pinpointing what had gone wrong and the planes likely position within 48 hours, Odd then that this hasn't been mentioned anywhere till I found this... http://www.flightglobal.com/ne... Particularly interesting is this comment '..[When] asked Malaysia Airlines about signals from the 777’s Aircraft
Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), but the
carrier declined to comment citing “pending investigations” by
Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation' Seems to me they know a great deal more than they're saying at this point.

homerjay2005

Gator wrote: »

When] asked Malaysia Airlines about signals from the 777’s Aircraft
Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), but the
carrier declined to comment citing “pending investigations” by
Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation' Seems to me they know a great deal more than they're saying at this point.[/I][/I]

or maybe as has been hinted here, it wasnt actually installed?

Jack1985

My own opinion why there were no ACARS with abnormalities is the cockpit section broke of the aircraft i.e. the lines were severed, because even if something catastrophic happened and she began to crash, a few messages would have got out in time - if she was intact. My own interest now is trying to find information to support the theory, and the cockpit fire that happened on an EgyptAir flight in 2011 which I posted a few pages back about, saw the cockpit destroyed and the fire pierced the aircraft skin in 30 seconds.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

or maybe as has been hinted here, it wasnt actually installed?

Of course, they confirmed there were no abnormalities from it.

Tigerandahalf

aliveandkicking wrote: »

Exactly and I hazard a guess that most ordinary people logging on here are probably doing so in the hope of reading opinion from people who are clued in on aviation. I myself log in here read this forum for that very reason. If i want to read the rambling from a rag like the mirror, I will log onto the mirror's website. Here I like reading the opinions of people who are clued in on aviation.

It is not rambling. Don't be so snobby for Christ sake. The news feed from the Mirror is being sourced from recognised news sources such as Reuters and authorities on the ground in Asia.
I appreciate people who have a background in aviation answering questions we have. Surely it adds to the thread. Speculating on possible outcomes is part of that.

Colser

aliveandkicking wrote: »

Exactly and I hazard a guess that most ordinary people logging on here are probably doing so in the hope of reading opinion from people who are clued in on aviation. I myself log in here read this forum for that very reason. If i want to read the rambling from a rag like the mirror, I will log onto the mirror's website. Here I like reading the opinions of people who are clued in on aviation.

Same here ...Im certainly not an aviation expert but I am finding this thread fantastic...well done to all the experienced posters and to the ordinary posters like myself who are asking the exact same questions that I have about the whole situation.

highlydebased

homerjay2005 wrote: »

or maybe as has been hinted here, it wasnt actually installed?

It seems that a/c has ACARS- using www.acarsd.org I can see acars messages from a few months ago sent by 9M-MRO

Thrill

wil wrote: »

so if I hadn't asked...

Anyway dog=me, bone=switch
Is there a technical reason the transponder on/off switch exists?
Surely a better alternative has been considered?

A quick google and a minutes reading has taught me this.

It's not just on and off, there are a few modes...OFF, STBY , ON and ALT. Some have a TEST and there is also an IDENT button.

These modes are apparently used during take-off procedures, so obviously the pilot needs to be able to use all modes, including OFF.

Example...

After you start your engine, you should turn your transponder from OFF to STBY. This allows it to warm up but won't permit it to respond to interrogations. If your aircraft has an avionics master switch, you may safely leave the transponder in STBY and never even bother to turn it OFF

.

Jack1985

Thanks for that website highlydebased, jeez don't know how they get away with taking information from ACARS systems, obviously the AF447 ACARS were released but can't see too many airlines being happy about that.:eek:

highlydebased

Jack1985 wrote: »

Thanks for that website highlydebased, jeez don't know how they get away with taking information from ACARS systems, obviously the AF447 ACARS were released but can't see too many airlines being happy about that.:eek:

Acars are transmitted on various frequencies, 131.55 is one of them, you can connect an airband scanner to your pc on that frequency and download software to decode the data transmissions on the frequency. Thats pretty much how those sites work

wil

The AF447 crashed in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, pretty much as far from anywhere as possible, this was likely in a far more accessible relatively shallow gulf. Seems like at least one order of magnitude in the difference.

if the plane had crossed back over land or near, surely there would be some electronic evidence, phones, radar, signals, sighting.

Neither terrorism nor failure can be discounted in the face of few firm facts.
And so far, all the usual electronic information designed to assist in such a situation is delivering little. Or so we know.
Even in a catastrophic situation, could you expect some signals from a 6 mile descent?

Its not unknown for officials to be economical with the facts, and quite often this is the SOP.

fits

China has mobilized several satellites to help with the search. Interesting, i wonder how they'll manage it.

Jack1985

highlydebased wrote: »

Acars are transmitted on various frequencies, 131.55 is one of them, you can connect an airband scanner to your pc on that frequency and download software to decode the data transmissions on the frequency. Thats pretty much how those sites work

Oh I know but publishing them on the internet is a different story oh I tell you if Ryanair got wind there ACARS were being published, there'd be solicitor letters being handed out like no tomorrow :pac:

Just to fellow aviators on this forum (I'm not commercial yet unfortunately - not a big boy so to speak yet), what's ye're own personal reactions to crashes? I'm booked for another hour building flight tomorrow in this glorious weather thank god and personally I have no fear of flying again, to me accidents always reinforce safety in my mind (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate).

andy_g

Jack1985 wrote: »

Oh I know but publishing them on the internet is a different story oh I tell you if Ryanair got wind there ACARS were being published, there'd be solicitor letters being handed out like no tomorrow :pac:

Ryanair do not have ACARS.

fits

I'm.glad I flew through shanghai before this happened rather than after. Transited through china just over a week ago. Imagine security is a bit more onerous now.

Went to US in 2002 and their security and immigration people put me off returning after 9/11 compared with previous visits.

SpaceTime

highlydebased wrote: »

Acars are transmitted on various frequencies, 131.55 is one of them, you can connect an airband scanner to your pc on that frequency and download software to decode the data transmissions on the frequency. Thats pretty much how those sites work

Not really very much that they can do if they transmit data without any encryption. People will listen. That's humanity for ya!

Cessna_Pilot

Jack1985 wrote: »

Oh I know but publishing them on the internet is a different story oh I tell you if Ryanair got wind there ACARS were being published, there'd be solicitor letters being handed out like no tomorrow :pac:

Just to fellow aviators on this forum (I'm not commercial yet unfortunately - not a big boy so to speak yet), what's ye're own personal reactions to crashes? I'm booked for another hour building flight tomorrow in this glorious weather thank god and personally I have no fear of flying again, to me accidents always reinforce safety in my mind (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate).

Ryanair do not have ACARS!

Jack1985

andy_g wrote: »

Ryanair do not have ACARS.

Don't they? Wow - Had no idea! Any reason? I'd assume cost?

sopretty

I think that in the absence of any physical evidence of even a piece of the plane, the only investigations which are possibly progressing are investigations into each and every one of the passengers, their histories etc. If they can pretty much rule out terrorism, then I suppose they can safely assume it was a technical issue and I suppose, in the longer absence of any physical evidence of a piece of the plane, just give the same model of aircraft an extra-rigorous safety check I suppose! If they can't rule out pilot error, there's not much else they will be able to achieve unless they find the plane!

andy_g

Jack1985 wrote: »

Don't they? Wow - Had no idea! Any reason? I'd assume cost?

Nothing to do with cost.

adam88

Was there not a case a few years back of an large airliner being repossessed or else stolen. Can't exactly remember but that was never again seen. Presumed crashed. Think it was a middle eastern country. Could it be possible the aircraft was flying blind and not picked up by radar. Primary satellite does not exist there according to previous posts. At this stage anything is possible

Jack1985

andy_g wrote: »

Nothing to do with cost.

Pretty weird most airlines have them, Aer Lingus definitely do witnessed it tuned in on the flight deck once when I asked, easyJet too!

andy_g

Acars is not a requirement/legal requirment and as such not all airlines carry it.

Peregrine

Jack1985 wrote: »

The ones I'm referring to no, I'm referring to the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR), Flight Data Recorder (FDR) and the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT).

Can the CVR's circuit breaker not be tripped?

Gator wrote: »

As bad as the whole sitation is it is quite fascinating that a plane can just go missing.

I am looking at the telegraph and this was posted which I thougt was quite interesting

Having read a lot of the comments here and elsewhere, it seems that no one has mentioned the 777’s Aircraft Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS). This is entirely automated and cannot be switched off, it sends short messages directly to Boeing about the aircraft's systems etc. and reports every few minutes. In the case of AF447 its system (Airbus) was instrumental in pinpointing what had gone wrong and the planes likely position within 48 hours, Odd then that this hasn't been mentioned anywhere till I found this... http://www.flightglobal.com/ne... Particularly interesting is this comment '..[When] asked Malaysia Airlines about signals from the 777’s Aircraft
Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), but the
carrier declined to comment citing “pending investigations” by
Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation' Seems to me they know a great deal more than they're saying at this point.

They said in one of the first press conferences that there were no anomalies in the ACARS data so I don't know what that poster is on about. A bit harsh to say no one has mentioned it.

Jack1985

andy_g wrote: »

Acars is not a requirement/legal requirment and as such not all airlines carry it.

Yep but for a Europe's largest airline to have technical information flowing in by the second from the whole fleet, It seems a no brainer they would invest in it. easyJet clearly seen the reason too.

Can the CVR's circuit breaker not be tripped?

It can but I'm referring to the signals from all 3 trackers, they could find the CVR only to find nothing on it because as you say the circuit can be pulled.

Gator

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Can the CVR's circuit breaker not be tripped?



They said in one of the first press conferences that there were no anomalies in the ACARS data so I don't know what that poster is on about. A bit harsh to say no one has mentioned it.

I think he was referring to the posts in the telegraph

andy_g

Back on topic please if you wish to discuss acars please start a new thread.

wil

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

They said in one of the first press conferences that there were no anomalies in the ACARS data so I don't know what that poster is on about. A bit harsh to say no one has mentioned it.

They stopped, that's a bit of an anomaly.

The answers in those reports were abrupt.

Jack1985

They stopped, that's a bit of an anomaly.

They stopped when the flight went off radar, rather than an anomaly its a clear sign the aircraft had experienced a catastrophic event.