Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Gator

I suppose its their interpretation of what an anomoly is..... still, interesting that they wouldnt comment

Jack1985

Gator wrote: »

I suppose its their interpretation of what an anomoly is..... still, interesting that they wouldnt comment

The Director General of the Malaysian CAA was asked was there any ''abnormal'' ACARS message he confirmed via MAS that all ACARS were normal and stopped the same time the flight went missing.

Tigerandahalf

Has there been any more on the second plane that was asked by ATC to make contact with flight MH370. It was reported that radio contact was made but that communication wasn't possible due to static. This was supposedly 10 minutes after last radar contact.

wil

Jack1985 wrote: »

They stopped when the flight went off radar, rather than an anomaly its a clear sign the aircraft had experienced a catastrophic event.

Exactly, unless there is any other set of circumstances that could do same.
Doublespeak is often utilised when clear answers are not preferred.

Any wild suggestions other than catastrophic explosion/disintegration to produce same observation.

eg switch off transponder, dive under radar?

And I still ask, what are the chances of no electronic signals after disintegration. Are any long range transmitters battery backed up or do all long range signals cease when power is cut?

The One Who Knocks

Okay on the mid air disintegration theory, what could cause this other than some sort of explosive device, especially considering that the plane is so new.

Jack1985

wil wrote: »

Exactly, unless there is any other set of circumstances that could do same.
Doublespeak is often utilised when clear answers are not preferred.

Any wild suggestions other than catastrophic explosion/disintegration to produce same observation.

eg switch off transponder, dive under radar?

And I still ask, what are the chances of no electronic signals after disintegration. Are any long range transmitters battery backed up or do all long range signals cease when power is cut?

I've nearly answered all these questions? The signals last an initial 30 days. Diving under radar with a transponder off, is really into the realms of speculation - There'd have to an absolute mad man at the controls...

Okay on the mid air disintegration theory

Fire is a possibility again, a fire which penetrated the cockpit could have breached the skin causing the nose to separate and subsequent disintegration of the aircraft in-flight, speculation again but that's all we can do at the moment.

- -

Here's an accident years ago that would just make you feel queasy in the pit of your stomach,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Boeing_707-323C_disappearance

Never found, and before people post saying could the same happen to MAS 370, its very unlikely we are in the 21st century even though it has not been found so far, it will be found eventually.

Tigerandahalf

The ACARS are sent over a VHF radio signal, from what I read. If there was a complete electrical failure the signal would not have been sent but the plane could still have flown.
If the plane was hijacked these signals would still be sent out. It would not be possible for the hijackers to disengage them unlike the transponder for the radar.
The authorities have been quite withdrawn in giving info about ACARS. They simply said there were no anomalies. This doesn't mean the plane wasn't still flying.
How is the ACARS data transmitted when the plane is over a vast expanse of water like the Atlantic? Is it through satellite?

Edit: I see Jack above said the authorities said it stopped sending the data after radar lost contact. But they still have not been specific on times etc.

Cessna_Pilot

http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/missing-mas-flight-shaman-arrives-help-find-missing-plane

Jack1985

giving info about ACARS.

You're reading far too much into this and I really do not know why, they are not referring to them because its as simple as this;

There were no abnormalities

How is the ACARS data transmitted when the plane is over a vast expanse of water like the Atlantic? Is it through satellite?

There is a network of VHF ground radio stations which basically ensures that aircraft can communicate with ground end systems in real-time from practically anywhere in the world.

sopretty

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/missing-mas-flight-shaman-arrives-help-find-missing-plane

Was it the pixie heads again?

Jack1985

sopretty wrote: »

Was it the pixie heads again?

Did I just read a quote in that website say she believed it was hijacked by elves???:eek:

Tigerandahalf

Jack1985 wrote: »

You're reading far too much into this and I really do not know why, they are not referring to them because its as simple as this;

There were no abnormalities

But they haven't been specific on these times. Nor have they revealed whether ATC was handed over to Vietnamese authorities. There is a lack of detail, perhaps for operational reasons, who knows. The last radar contact was initially said to be 2.30am, then the info changed to 1.20am (40 minutes after departure). The other plane apparently made radio contact at 1.30am.
So had the plane already made its turn at this stage? They said it made a left turn on last radar spot. So there is a window of 10 minutes, going on the info they have revealed. It seems it was the Vietnamese ATC who requested the 2nd plane to make contact, not the Malaysian ATC.

Jack1985

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

But they haven't been specific on these times. Nor have they revealed whether ATC was handed over to Vietnamese authorities. There is a lack of detail, perhaps for operational reasons, who knows. The last radar contact was initially said to be 2.30am, then the info changed to 1.20am (40 minutes after departure). The other plane apparently made radio contact at 1.30am.
So had the plane already made its turn at this stage? They said it made a left turn on last radar spot. So there is a window of 10 minutes, going on the info they have revealed. It seems it was the Vietnamese authorities who requested the 2nd plane to make contact, not the Malaysian ATC.

Because why do they have to reveal investigation sensitive material that does not concern the public in their eyes yet?? The flight never was handed over to the Vietnamese, it reached waypoint IGARI just before Malaysian ATC would have handed it over. As in all major events times initially put out are usually wrong, the time it went of radar is confirmed as 01:22 local time in Malaysia or 17:22 GMT. The report about the pilot communicating to MAS370 remains unconfirmed, regards that plane being requested by the Vietnamese to make contact of course they asked; because that flight was in Vietnamese airspace if it did happen (the second plane trying to contact MAS370).

Tigerandahalf you are wearing me out haha, and I'll reply because its great to see you are obviously interested!

Tigerandahalf

A lot of things still remain unclear and perhaps as you said they are not revealing everything. It is strange though that the media there are not asking these very questions at least.
From what I have read on the article below it states that ATC was handed over by Malaysia to Vietnamese ATC and they then requested the other plane to make radio contact with MH370. Would they not have tried to make radio contact themselves first?

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2014/03/10/what-has-happened-to-mh370/

homerjay2005

in terms of location, i thought the BBR/CVR emitted a signal for up to 30 days? something is not adding up, never before has a plane just disappeared like this without at least some rough idea of where it was.

looking at the 3 areas that have been pinpointed, it looks like nobody has a clue where it is.

Jack1985

A lot of things still remain unclear and perhaps as you said they are not revealing everything. It is strange though that the media there are not asking these very questions at least.

This is what people are on about the Mirror for, journalists do absolutely no justice to aviation because they do not know what to ask only the obvious as they know nothing about the sector and the majority of the time create spin and bull about it!

From what I have read on the article below it states that ATC was handed over by Malaysia to Vietnamese ATC and they then requested the other plane to make radio contact with MH370. Would they not have tried to make radio contact themselves first?

Here's the confirmed information it was not handed over to Vietnamese ATC - this website by the way is very good, all the information is factual and confirmed; http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b.

They would have asked another flight to try make contact with it because they were trying tirelessly themselves, with other aircraft in the area they might have stronger radio signals and be able to communicate.

never before has a plane just disappeared like this

It has I'm afraid, AF447? 7 days of nothing before they found a body.

SNAKEDOC

Thats odd that the plane transited from mal air space to vietnam air space and no change over happened. Would that suggest that may be something had begun to happen on board to prevent communication but the plane was still airborn. Also on the theory of terror attack or hijacking would the pilot not have changed the transponder code to alert of their status. I know maybe either of the flight crew might not have being able to do so but there are a lot of puzzling questions to be answered.
The size of the search area is very large why so. Also where was the aircraft when if went off radar. Im sure this was the first area to be searched.
Has the NTSB made any statement yet im sure once other organisations arrive in the area there will be more transparency.

homerjay2005

Jack1985 wrote: »

It has I'm afraid, AF447? 7 days of nothing before they found a body.

well no, they knew where it was....roughly. see the pic above, the search area for AF was narrowed down completely, in a much wider area, so they knew where it was and i assume, it was emmiting data so they were able to find it, within 4 days...bodies came later.

BUT this, so far appears to have completely disappeared.

Jack1985

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

Thats odd that the plane transited from mal air space to vietnam air space and no change over happened. Would that suggest that may be something had begun to happen on board to prevent communication but the plane was still airborn. Also on the theory of terror attack or hijacking would the pilot not have changed the transponder code to alert of their status. I know maybe either of the flight crew might not have being able to do so but there are a lot of puzzling questions to be answered.
The size of the search area is very large why so. Also where was the aircraft when if went off radar. Im sure this was the first area to be searched.
Has the NTSB made any statement yet im sure once other organisations arrive in the area there will be more transparency.

Yes it went off radar just before it was about to be handed off.

well no, they knew where it was....roughly. see the pic above, the search area for AF was narrowed down completely, in a much wider area, so they knew where it was and i assume, it was emmiting data so they were able to find it, within 4 days...bodies came later.

BUT this, so far appears to have completely disappeared.

Sorry thats completely wrong, AF447 was presumed missing in the Atlantic between North Brazil and Western Africa do you know how big that was?? It narrowed when they found the first body on day 7. It never emitted data, they found the black boxes from searching manually after 2 years. The only data that was emitted during the crash were the ACARS which were sent to Paris, thats how they knew failures happened before they even commenced a search following its disappearance. It has not completely disappeared it has yet to be found.

Tigerandahalf

So the Vietnamese ATC appear to have contacted the 2nd plane on their own accord possibly because they were expecting the plane to be in their territory at that stage or they themselves had spotted that the plane had taken a turn.
As that website states it seems incredible that a plane with the transponder turned off could turn around and fly back over the Malaysian peninsula without some other detection system picking it up.

Jack1985

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So the Vietnamese ATC appear to have contacted the 2nd plane on their own accord possibly because they were expecting the plane to be in their territory at that stage or they themselves had spotted that the plane had taken a turn.
As that website states it seems incredible that a plan with the transponder turned off could turn around and fly back over the Malaysian peninsula without some other detection system picking it up.

Tiger please read the information?? I'll stop posting here in a minute like its getting excruciating now. The Vietnamese would have started calling for it when Malaysian ATC contacted them notifying them it was off radar and had it contacted them, they would have informed them no, then the Chinese were contacted and they confirmed it had not entered there airspace; so all 3 would have been calling for it and then of course flights passing would have offered to help and tried calling it and would have listened out for the ELT which nobody heard.

Another MAS flight claims to have heard mumbles but that remains unconfirmed.

robbieVan

I think people are underestimating how hard it is to find the wreckage, a 777 is miniscule compared to a big body of water, added in the fact it is looking like it disintegrated in mid air it is gonna take a while to find it unless they get a lucky break, they could've found it on day 1 or it might take a few days

kona

The One Who Knocks wrote: »

Okay on the mid air disintegration theory, what could cause this other than some sort of explosive device, especially considering that the plane is so new.

Metal fatigue, poor repairs on fuselage, unreported damage, exceeding the limits of the airframe basically. Interesting point is the aircraft has had structural repairs after a collision. I've no idea of what the repairs were tho.

There's a few air crash investigations on it, look at the comet and the china airways 747 pressure bulkhead.

Jack1985

kona wrote: »

Metal fatigue, poor repairs on fuselage, unreported damage, exceeding the limits of the airframe basically. Interesting point is the aircraft has had structural repairs after a collision. I've no idea of what the repairs were tho.

There's a few air crash investigations on it, look at the comet and the china airways 747 pressure bulkhead.

Have a read here - http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

Tigerandahalf

Jack1985 wrote: »

Tiger please read the information?? I'll stop posting here in a minute like its getting excruciating now. The Vietnamese would have started calling for it when Malaysian ATC contacted them notifying them it was off radar and had it contacted them, they would have informed them no, then the Chinese were contacted and they confirmed it had not entered there airspace; so all 3 would have been calling for it and then of course flights passing would have offered to help and tried calling it and would have listened out for the ELT which nobody heard.

Another MAS flight claims to have heard mumbles but that remains unconfirmed.

You don't know whether the Malaysian or Vietnamese ATC were calling the plane. You are just presuming that. We just haven't been given enough detail from the authorities.

Jack1985

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

You don't know whether the Malaysian or Vietnamese ATC were calling the plane. You are just presuming that. We just haven't been given enough detail from the authorities.

Tiger, well what do you think they were doing sitting back waiting for it to re-appear, you have a very dim view if thats the case. I'll refrain now from helping you understand this, you clearly don't appreciate anything I'm posting for basically you.

kona

Jack1985 wrote: »

Have a read here - http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

Here's the damage

https://twitter.com/MarySchiavo/status/442647017668759552/photo/1

It's a fair lump missing but I don't think it would cause such a sudden failure. Unless there was damage further down the structure that was missed.
I'd say that's the first thing they are looking at. The terrorist / bomb angle is bollox IMO, it just sells newspapers .

Jack1985

kona wrote: »

Here's the damage

https://twitter.com/MarySchiavo/status/442647017668759552/photo/1

It's a fair lump missing but I don't think it would cause such a sudden failure. Unless there was damage further down the structure that was missed.
I'd say that's the first thing they are looking at. The terrorist / bomb angle is bollox IMO, it just sells newspapers .

Indeed I fully agree, just to let you know too, the aircraft went under extensive maintenance, she was back in Seattle for a few months I understand too being repaired directly by the manufacturer, Boeing. Also Malaysian Airlines have no history of faulty maintenance leading to incidents or accidents, so although It should not be ruled out the probability of it being the cause isn't that high either, although it remains a possibility.

sopretty

Jack, please continue posting! I'd appreciate if other informed people would continue posting too. I do feel like the token idiot in the room of experts, but I would like to try to comprehend some stuff. Reminds me of physics class in school lol - with everything going over my head! I would hazard a guess that more are reading this thread than are posting on it. Consider it 'educating the idiots' lol (speaking for myself only here!). Your service to society.

Jack1985

sopretty wrote: »

Jack, please continue posting! I'd appreciate if other informed people would continue posting too. I do feel like the token idiot in the room of experts, but I would like to try to comprehend some stuff. Reminds me of physics class in school lol - with everything going over my head! I would hazard a guess that more are reading this thread than are posting on it. Consider it 'educating the idiots' lol (speaking for myself only here!). Your service to society.

You're never the token idiot when you're actually interested in what's going on, the token idiot would be the person who pretends to understand what's going.

Indeed every-post on this thread is educating people, from everyone, and its great people are learning, I always am, and anyone in aviation who says there not is treading on a very thin line!