Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

SpaceTime · 10-03-2014 6:36pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The ACARS are sent over a VHF radio signal, from what I read. If there was a complete electrical failure the signal would not have been sent but the plane could still have flown.
If the plane was hijacked these signals would still be sent out. It would not be possible for the hijackers to disengage them unlike the transponder for the radar.
The authorities have been quite withdrawn in giving info about ACARS. They simply said there were no anomalies. This doesn't mean the plane wasn't still flying.
How is the ACARS data transmitted when the plane is over a vast expanse of water like the Atlantic? Is it through satellite?

Edit: I see Jack above said the authorities said it stopped sending the data after radar lost contact. But they still have not been specific on times etc.

They can go via VHF Radio (Cheapest option)

Or, HF and satellite links.

Inmarsat and Iridium provide connectivity.

Loads of info online about it :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Communications_Addressing_and_Reporting_System

It would seem there are various options so it's hard to generalise about what is/isn't possible without knowing the specifics of that plane.
From what I gather it pretty much had all the best gear though!

homerjay2005 · 10-03-2014 6:39pm

sully2010 wrote: »

Looks like someones closed their account in a huff..

and reopened a new one within minutes and kept posting since....

Tigerandahalf · 10-03-2014 6:39pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Tiger, well what do you think they were doing sitting back waiting for it to re-appear, you have a very dim view if thats the case. I'll refrain now from helping you understand this, you clearly don't appreciate anything I'm posting for basically you.

You can refrain if you want Jack. I'm grateful for people in the know answering questions.
However, a lot is very strange about the search range of the plane being extended and the final details of contact with the plane. We haven't been told how far the plane travelled after the left turn. How long after that left turn did the plane disappear from radar contact?

If an enemy plane with radar disabled travelled over the Malaysian peninsula you would expect they would have another detection system to detect the plane, yet no detection was noted of MH380. So why are they searching in that area if the ACARS stopped sending data at time of radar loss?

kona · 10-03-2014 6:41pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Indeed I fully agree, just to let you know too, the aircraft went under extensive maintenance, she was back in Seattle for a few months I understand too being repaired directly by the manufacturer, Boeing. Also Malaysian Airlines have no history of faulty maintenance leading to incidents or accidents, so although It should not be ruled out the probability of it being the cause isn't that high either, although it remains a possibility.

Boeing ****ed up a repair on the china airways flight, only used a single row of rivets , instead of a double row.

There's so many things that can cause a aircraft to disintegrate inflight , did this 777 have nitrogen inerting?

Jack1985 · 10-03-2014 6:41pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

You can refrain if you want Jack. I'm grateful for people in the know answering questions.
However, a lot is very strange about the search range of the plane being extended and the final details of contact with the plane. We haven't been told how far the plane travelled after the left turn. How long after that left turn did the plane disappear from radar contact?

If an enemy plane with radar disabled travelled over the Malaysian peninsula you would expect they would have another detection system to detect the plane, yet no detection was noted of MH380. So why are they searching in that area if the ACARS stopped sending data at time of radar loss?

Tiger, there are lots of people on here who know what they are talking about, everyone will give you help to understand anything you wish to understand, but you are very dismissive of information people are providing, the link I gave you to avherald, that is a huge article and I really think you should have a good read and then post questions?

kona wrote: »

did this 777 have nitrogen inerting?

I simply do not know, there was a 777 pilot back on the forum previously, I'm sure he knows?

homerjay2005 · 10-03-2014 6:42pm

Malaysian airways have cancelled a flight tonight bound for Kuala Lumpur due to a technical glitch.

its not a 777 tho, its a 737.

Colser · 10-03-2014 6:44pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Tiger please read the information?? I'll stop posting here in a minute like its getting excruciating now. The Vietnamese would have started calling for it when Malaysian ATC contacted them notifying them it was off radar and had it contacted them, they would have informed them no, then the Chinese were contacted and they confirmed it had not entered there airspace; so all 3 would have been calling for it and then of course flights passing would have offered to help and tried calling it and would have listened out for the ELT which nobody heard.

Another MAS flight claims to have heard mumbles but that remains unconfirmed.

Jack1985..with regard to the above reply how long do you think it would have taken before the ATC in the different areas realised that there was a major issue /problem occuring...minutes?Im just wondering how quickly people react to something that they would rarely witness ...would they presume that it was a systems issue rather than a plane issue at first?

Tigerandahalf · 10-03-2014 6:44pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Tiger, there are lots of people on here who know what they are talking about, everyone will give you help to understand anything you wish to understand, but you are very dismissive of information people are providing, the link I gave you to avherald, that is a huge article and I really think you should have a good read and then post questions?

I simply do not know, there was a 777 pilot back on the forum previously, I'm sure he knows?

The link you posted Jack didn't work for me. No site connected.

kona · 10-03-2014 6:46pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

I simply do not know, there was a 777 pilot back on the forum previously, I'm sure he knows?

Not all 777 will have it, they have to be retro fitted to older a/c , just wondering if you knew if it had this mod. It's probably something not available online.

Jack1985 · 10-03-2014 6:47pm

Jack1985..with regard to the above reply how long do you think it would have taken before the ATC in the different areas realised that there was a major issue /problem occuring...minutes?Im just wondering how quickly people react to something that they would rarely witness ...would they presume that it was a systems issue rather than a plane issue at first?

I actually would not know that, but I do believe there is a definite time given internationally before an emergency has to be declared, it seems that emergency was declared at 02:40am Malaysian time (18:40 GMT).

he link you posted Jack didn't work for me. No site connected.

Understandably a lot of demand to view the website, keep trying to refresh its a very good article.

Not all 777 will have it, they have to be retro fitted to older a/c , just wondering if you knew if it had this mod. It's probably something not available online.

Afraid I do not know, I'm sure somebody will answer you soon enough.

homerjay2005 · 10-03-2014 6:51pm

the black box normally can survive huge explosions but seen as it apparently cannot be found at the moment, would this suggest the plane may have been blown to pieces thus why its not findable? as time goes on, these parts are drifting apart.

Tigerandahalf · 10-03-2014 6:52pm

The Mirror is reporting that debris has been found.

"According to the South China Morning Post the apparent debris field is 300 miles from where the current search operation is.

It is believed it was spotted from a Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong to Kuala Lumpur, according to the Aviation Herald which had the reported sighting confirmed by the Civil Aviation Department.

A Thai ship was sent to the area but has so far not found anything. A Vietnamese ship, however, is reported to have discovered some metal.

However this sighting is not confirmed.

......."

Grandeeod · 10-03-2014 6:54pm

kona wrote: »

Boeing ****ed up a repair on the china airways flight, only used a single row of rivets , instead of a double row.

There's so many things that can cause a aircraft to disintegrate inflight , did this 777 have nitrogen inerting?

Boeing didn't do the repair.

fits · 10-03-2014 6:56pm

sopretty wrote: »

Jack, please continue posting! I'd appreciate if other informed people would continue posting too. I do feel like the token idiot in the room of experts, but I would like to try to comprehend some stuff. Reminds me of physics class in school lol - with everything going over my head! I would hazard a guess that more are reading this thread than are posting on it. Consider it 'educating the idiots' lol (speaking for myself only here!). Your service to society.

I mean this in the kindest possible way but women don't need to talk themselves down like this. The only idiots I've seen here and elsewhere are those pretending to be authorities when they are clearly not.

Jack1985 · 10-03-2014 6:57pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Boeing didn't do the repair.

“And that has been repaired by Boeing and it was cleared by Boeing and it was appoved by various authorities, so it's actually safe to fly,”

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/mas-stands-by-safety-of-b777-fleet#sthash.CISx0v74.dpuf

Peregrine · 10-03-2014 7:00pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

“And that has been repaired by Boeing and it was cleared by Boeing and it was appoved by various authorities, so it's actually safe to fly,”

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/mas-stands-by-safety-of-b777-fleet#sthash.CISx0v74.dpuf

I think he was talking about China Airlines 611.

Grandeeod · 10-03-2014 7:00pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

“And that has been repaired by Boeing and it was cleared by Boeing and it was appoved by various authorities, so it's actually safe to fly,”

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/mas-stands-by-safety-of-b777-fleet#sthash.CISx0v74.dpuf

I was replying to Kona who referenced the China Airlines incident in 2002.

Dontfadeaway · 10-03-2014 7:01pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the black box normally can survive huge explosions but seen as it apparently cannot be found at the moment, would this suggest the plane may have been blown to pieces thus why its not findable? as time goes on, these parts are drifting apart.

No. It took them ages to find the Black Box from Air France.

Jack1985 · 10-03-2014 7:01pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I was replying to Kona who referenced the China Airlines incident in 2002.

Sorry apologies!

kona · 10-03-2014 7:01pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Tiger, there are lots of people on here who know what they are talking about, everyone will give you help to understand anything you wish to understand, but you are very dismissive of information people are providing, the link I gave you to avherald, that is a huge article and I really think you should have a good read and then post questions?

I simply do not know, there was a 777 pilot back on the forum previously, I'm sure he knows?

Grandeeod wrote: »

Boeing didn't do the repair.

Lol I don't think the srm covers replacing half a wing! Boeing made up that repair.

Grandeeod · 10-03-2014 7:02pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Sorry apologies!

No problemo. I can see you're busy.;)

Jack1985 · 10-03-2014 7:03pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

No problemo. I can see you're busy.;)

Done for the night, I've read enough today about Malaysia Airlines for a life time! :P

sopretty · 10-03-2014 7:05pm

fits wrote: »

I mean this in the kindest possible way but women don't need to talk themselves down like this. The only idiots I've seen here and elsewhere are those pretending to be authorities when they are clearly not.

I'm not talking myself down as a woman. I'm speaking as someone (albeit a woman!

) who is curious about a subject, but who has no knowledge on the topic, so is quite content to read informed opinions and occasionally butt in with the odd question. My problem is that I know so little, that I can't actually figure out whether I'm asking blatantly obvious questions or not!

I'm getting educated though. Some of the technical stuff goes totally over my head, completely UN-comprehended. Some of it I can grasp.

Tigerandahalf · 10-03-2014 7:05pm

From the Mirror........

"A previously unknown group - the Chinese Martyrs’ Brigade – has claimed that it was behind the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370.

An email was sent to various journalists in China, saying: “You kill one of our clan, we will kill 100 of you as payback.”

But officials in Malaysia have said they believe the group's claim could be a hoax.

The email did not explain what had happened to the plane.

Malaysia’s acting transport minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein, said today: “There is no sound or credible grounds to justify their claims."

It is reported that the email could be designed to increase ethnic tensions between Uighurs and Han Chinese in the wake of a knife attack in Kunming on March 1 in which 29 people were killed and more than 100 were injured.

....."

kona · 10-03-2014 7:06pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I was replying to Kona who referenced the China Airlines incident in 2002.

Maybe I'm mixing it up with another crash , but Boeing accepted responsibility for a bad repair. I'm certain it was on a pressure bulkhead.

Sorry it was actually a Japan airlines crash
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123

Grandeeod · 10-03-2014 7:10pm

kona wrote: »

Maybe I'm mixing it up with another crash , but Boeing accepted responsibility for a bad repair. I'm certain it was on a pressure bulkhead

All I know is that it wasn't carried out in accordance with the SRM. It was an incorrectly installed doubler plate.

Calina · 10-03-2014 7:10pm

I think it's necessary to make a couple of points again.

1) the plane is about 12 years old.

2) the Air France flight which disappeared a couple of years ago was complicated by the distance from shore. As I recall, the Brazilian Airforce located possible debris within two days of the crash and it was another couple of days before surface vessels got to the location to confirm and it was another couple of days after that that they started retrieving bodies and part of the tail. The main wreckage took two years to find as did the data and voice recorders.

3) The repair work done on the plane involved in the China Airlines 611 crash was not done by Boeing; and it was not done in accordance with Boeing's guidelines. Current information suggests that the wingtip damaged suffered by the missing plane was done by Boeing and there are no suggestions at present that the repair was done in any manner which could be called into question.

4) the Air India flight which exploded off the coast of Cork was found within a few hours. Shannon ATC declared an emergency within 15 minutes of the plane vanishing from their screens and called on all planes and ships in the area to keep an eye out for the plane. I mention this because of the many "in this day and age" comments. Sometimes, really, what you need is luck. That plane was 120 miles off the coast of Cork.

5) While the plane is one of the bigger planes available, in the grand scheme of things, it's not all that big, particularly compared to the Gulf of Thailand. I think it's very hard, sometimes, to consider scale for things which make you feel small yourself.

Right now, all that can really be said is it doesn't appear to be where you'd expect to have found a trace of it based on the available information. I'd also add that I doubt all the available information is in the public domain. There are now sea and air craft from 10 countries frantically looking for it, primarily in the Gulf of Thailand but also in the Andaman Sea for some reason. The search areas are getting bigger. This makes is increasingly hard.