Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

kona

boeingboy wrote: »

http://www2.lba.de/dokumente/lta/ad50909.pdf


Company I fly widebody Boeings for complied with this. Dont know about Malaysian. So not speculating

Scribe lines causing fatigue cracks, who scribes aluminium when fitting to a aircraft!?

Jack1985

boeingboy wrote: »

Were acting on this but afaik it was mainly for US operators.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/d91639a24674ca8f86257c920050edf7/$FILE/2014-05-03.pdf

I've seen that being circulated, no SATCOM installed on MAS B777's though.

A Primal Nut

American journalist says oil rig worker letter is real:

https://twitter.com/BobWoodruff/status/443726108513411072

I've worked with a lot of people from Vietnam, they have some funny names in that region, so a name starting with phuqu wouldn't be impossible.

A Primal Nut

I'm starting to think back to the original idea - a straightforward explostion in the sky. All this talk of objects being seen to the west of Malaysia hasn't been confirmed; all location-detecting systems failed, all communication systems failed and the fake passports identities have also being shown to be unrelated.

Basically, everything that would suggest it didn't explode or crash at the last known location, has been shown to be a red herring. Except for the fact that they haven't found the debris. But that seems to be a combination of it exploding at a height of 35,000m and possible incompetance in the search operation.

Thrill

MH370 and MH371 flight codes will be retired from the Malaysia Airlines’ Kuala Lumpur- Beijing-Kuala Lumpur route - company statement

Flight code for MH370 will be changed to MH318 beginning March 14 as a mark of respect.

China's civil aviation chief says no evidence Malaysian military was concealing information about missing airliner


India to deploy ships and planes to search for MH370

A warship and three aircraft from the Indian military will be deployed to search for missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 in the South Andaman Sea over the next three days.

A Indian Coast Guard ship will head to Gulf of Thailand to aid in the search there.

http://alert5.com/2014/03/13/india-to-deploy-ships-and-planes-to-search-for-mh370/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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Thrill

Vietnam search finds no wreckage at location where China satellite shows possible plane debris.

Vietnam say they had already searched the area previously.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/vietnam-says-possible-debris-area-already-searched-033257855.html#3mQJxkp

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — The area where Chinese satellite images show what might be debris from the missing Malaysian jetliner has been thoroughly searched in recent days, Vietnam said Thursday as Malaysia urged caution over the findings.

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irishmover

Thrill wrote: »

Vietnam search finds no wreckage at location where China satellite shows possible plane debris.

Vietnam say they had already searched the area previously.


.

As expected really.

Jack1985

You are really not going to believe this, according to a source, the ACARS data they were vague about has showed the flight was airborne for five hours, it disappeared after 42mins in the air. This according to the WSJ, which so far have been immaculate in all the information published by two dedicated aviation only journalists.

I am absolutely stunned and shocked. Investigators are now pursuing the notion the flight was purposely diverted with intention for using it later ''for another purpose'' - it gets more bizarre by the hour.

A Primal Nut

That's crazy. It seems it came from US investigators. If true, surely the only explanation is that Malaysian Airlines have kept quiet about the ACARS data? And perhaps the US intercepted it somehow?

I wonder what other useful information is in the ACARS data. I previously believed it was no longer sent after the 42 minute mark, is that what the authorities said?

Jack1985

If true, surely the only explanation is that Malaysian Airlines have kept quiet about the ACARS data? And perhaps the US intercepted it somehow?

Exactly! I can't believe it, I knew it was crazy there was no ACARS data and simply accepted a catastrophic event had taken place. This is a stunning development, the question now is where the hell is it and who has it? If confirmed, definitely the most bizarre event in aviation history. What we need to know now though is (hopefully not!), whether or not engine data via ACARS showed an engine flameout or shutdown, if shutdown there is a lot more hope the aircraft is safe however a possibility as well it's not.

God all we can do now is pray for these people

I previously believed it was no longer sent after the 42 minute mark, is that what the authorities said?

Yep we were told it ceased at the disappearance.

Jack1985

The phones ringing it nearly all fits, am I gone insane or is what I'm reading real-life.. I am totally perplexed, never in my career have I come across anything like this, I'm just hoping now this story is confirmed in the next few minutes, it looks like the WSJ source is in Rolls-Royce (engine manufacturers who have access to real-time engine data).

Article goes on to make a link with police visiting home of one of the pilots. The plane travelled 2,200km from its last position, approximately the same distance to the Indian/Pakistan border.

A Primal Nut

Yep, just got access to the full article; it seems the data is sent direct to Rolls-Royce. Maybe they have some kind of confidentiality agreements with Malaysian Airlines which stopped them from previously releasing it to the media or US investigators, but then got fed up and decided enough is enough; and somebody leaked it.

BigCon

Would the ACARS data give any indication of the flight path the aircraft took?

errlloyd

Jack I'm kind of confused. Not really an aviation head. Can you post a link?

Are you saying that respected journos have evidence the plane was airborne for 5 hours?

Jack1985

BigCon wrote: »

Would the ACARS data give any indication of the flight path the aircraft took?

Its someone in rolls-royce who leaked this and there only access is to engine data. Unclear at this point if RR engines have their own transmission device to RR or if its sent via ACARS, if its sent via ACARS, then the possibility remains position data was also sent, however the later is an airline option.

Jack1985

errlloyd wrote: »

Jack I'm kind of confused. Not really an aviation head. Can you post a link?

Are you saying that respected journos have evidence the plane was airborne for 5 hours?

You need a subscription to view it on WSJ, have a look at the tweets of @jonostrower

irishmover

Reading on twitter if he flew for 2200nm (which is what they believe to be the case if investigator is correct) then the above circle is where the range of the flight is.

A Primal Nut

I could read it using Google Chrome's incognito mode.

Jack1985

Working link - http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282.html

Tip, Andy Pasztor (writer of this) is probably the best aviation journalist out there he is unlikely to publish without hard facts or if he is on to something.

Ballymun Bohs

I haven't really followed this story closely but if this new information is true it's absolutely mind blowing to think the plan was airborne and travelling for that period of time. I can only assume that it must have been some kind of depressurisation and the plane continued on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel?

Jack1985

Ballymun Bohs wrote: »

I haven't really followed this story closely but if this new information is true it's absolutely mind blowing to think the plan was airborne and travelling for that period of time. I can only assume that it must have been some kind of depressurisation and the plane continued on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel?

Possible but the link stated ''possibility of it being used for another use'' which suggest engines were shut down normally and did not flame out (i.e. ran out of uel). This development has me sick in the pit of my stomach.

irishmover

Jack1985 wrote: »

Possible but the link stated ''possibility of it being used for another use'' which suggest engines were shut down normally and did not flame out (i.e. ran out of uel). This development has me sick in the pit of my stomach.

Well why? I suppose maybe for false hope the people on board didn't actually die?

errlloyd

Ballymun Bohs wrote: »

I haven't really followed this story closely but if this new information is true it's absolutely mind blowing to think the plan was airborne and travelling for that period of time. I can only assume that it must have been some kind of depressurisation and the plane continued on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel?

That's what happened to Air Helios flight circa 2006. But could this plane have continued on without hitting someone's airspace for that long?

A Primal Nut

Hope its ok to post this:

Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours
Engine Data Suggest Malaysia Flight Was Airborne Long After Radar Disappearance, U.S. Investigators Say

By ANDY PASZTOR CONNECT
Updated March 13, 2014 12:50 a.m. ET
U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -2.04% Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. BA -0.99% 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program.

That raises a host of new questions and possibilities about what happened aboard the widebody jet carrying 239 people, which vanished from civilian air-traffic control radar over the weekend, about one hour into a flight to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur.

Six days after the mysterious disappearance prompted a massive international air and water search that so far hasn't produced any results, the investigation appears to be broadening in scope.

U.S. counterterrorism officials are pursuing the possibility that a pilot or someone else on board the plane may have diverted it toward an undisclosed location after intentionally turning off the jetliner's transponders to avoid radar detection, according to one person tracking the probe.

The investigation remains fluid, and it isn't clear whether investigators have evidence indicating possible terrorism or espionage. So far, U.S. national security officials have said that nothing specifically points toward terrorism, though they haven't ruled it out.

But the huge uncertainty about where the plane was headed, and why it apparently continued flying so long without working transponders, has raised theories among investigators that the aircraft may have been commandeered for a reason that appears unclear to U.S. authorities. Some of those theories have been laid out to national security officials and senior personnel from various U.S. agencies, according to one person familiar with the matter.

At one briefing, according to this person, officials were told investigators are actively pursuing the notion that the plane was diverted "with the intention of using it later for another purpose."

As of Wednesday it remained unclear whether the plane reached an alternate destination or if it ultimately crashed, potentially hundreds of miles from where an international search effort has been focused.

In those scenarios, neither mechanical problems, pilot mistakes nor some other type of catastrophic incident caused the 250-ton plane to mysteriously vanish from radar.

The latest revelations come as local media reported that Malaysian police visited the home of at least one of the two pilots.

Boeing officials and a Malaysia Airlines official declined to comment.

The engines' onboard monitoring system is provided by their manufacturer, Rolls-Royce RR.LN -1.71% PLC, and it periodically sends bursts of data about engine health, operations and aircraft movements to facilities on the ground.

Rolls-Royce couldn't immediately be reached for comment.

As part of its maintenance agreements, Malaysia Airlines transmits its engine data live to Rolls-Royce for analysis. The system compiles data from inside the 777's two Trent 800 engines and transmits snapshots of performance, as well as the altitude and speed of the jet.

Those snippets are compiled and transmitted in 30-minute increments, said one person familiar with the system. According to Rolls-Royce's website, the data is processed automatically "so that subtle changes in condition from one flight to another can be detected."

The engine data is being analyzed to help determine the flight path of the plane after the transponders stopped working. The jet was originally headed for China, and its last verified position was half way across the Gulf of Thailand.

A total flight time of five hours after departing Kuala Lumpur means the Boeing 777 could have continued for an additional distance of about 2,200 nautical miles, reaching points as far as the Indian Ocean, the border of Pakistan or even the Arabian Sea, based on the jet's cruising speed.

Malaysian Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein in Kuala Lumpur briefs media on the search mission on Wednesday. Reuters
Earlier Wednesday, frustrations over the protracted search for the missing plane mounted as both China and Vietnam vented their anger over what they viewed as poor coordination of the effort.

Government conflicts and national arguments over crises are hardly unique to the Flight 370 situation, but some air-safety experts said they couldn't recall another recent instance of governments publicly feuding over search procedures during the early phase of an international investigation.

Authorities radically expanded the size of the search zone Wednesday, which already was proving a challenge to cover effectively, but the mission hadn't turned up much by the end of the fifth day.

WSJ has confirmed that the pilot had the ability to manually turn off the transponder on Flight MH370. A mid-air catastrophe could have destroyed it. Why is the transponder so significant? WSJ's Jason Bellini has #TheShortAnswer.

More
The Tricky Science of Radar Tracking
Also on Wednesday, a Chinese government website posted images from Chinese satellites showing what it said were three large objects floating in an 8-square-mile area off the southern tip of Vietnam. The objects were discovered on Sunday , according to the website, which didn't say whether the objects had been recovered or examined.

Ten countries were helping to scour the seas around Malaysia, including China, the U.S. and Vietnam. Taiwanese vessels are expected to be on the scene by Friday, with India and Japan having also agreed to join the search soon.


In all, 56 surface ships were taking part in the search, according to statements issued by the contributing governments, with Malaysia providing 27 of them. In addition, 30 fixed-wing aircraft were also searching, with at least 10 shipboard helicopters available, mostly in the waters between Malaysia and Vietnam.

China's government was especially aggrieved. More than 150 of the 239 people on board are Chinese, and family members in Beijing have at times loudly expressed their frustration over the absence of leads.

More than a dozen Chinese diplomats met with Malaysian authorities in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday as tension grew over the search.

"At present there's a lot of different information out there. It's very chaotic and very hard to verify," foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said in a regular press briefing. "We've said as long as there is a shred of hope, you can't give up."

The day before, Beijing pointedly pressed Malaysia to accelerate its investigation, which has been hampered by false leads on suspected debris and conflicting reports on radar tracking.

Admiral Le Minh Thanh at a media briefing on Phu Quoc Island, Vietnam. Reuters
Vietnam on Wednesday suspended its search flights after conflicting reports from Malaysia that authorities had tracked the plane to the Strait of Malacca before it disappeared.

Gen. Rodzali Daud, Malaysia's air force chief, denied saying he had told local media that military radar facilities had tracked the plane there, saying they were still examining all possibilities. Vietnam later resumed normal search sweeps.

Malaysian authorities divided the search area into several sectors on either side of the country, as well as areas on land.

The challenge, said Lt. David Levy, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy's Seventh Fleet, isn't so much coordination as the sheer size of the area involved. The search grids are up to 20 miles by 120 miles, and ships and aircraft employ an exhaustive methodical pattern "like mowing your lawn" in their search for the plane, he said.

China and Vietnam venting their frustration with the slow progress of the mission and what they view as poor coordination of the effort to find Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Allison Morrow reports on the News Hub. Photo: Getty Images.

U.S. defense officials sought to play down any suggestion that the Malaysian government was doing a poor job with the search.

"It is not unusual for searches to take a long time, especially when you are working with limited data," one official said.

Aviation experts say the absence of an electronic signal from the plane before it disappeared from radar screens makes it difficult to pin down possible locations. Some radar data suggested the Boeing 777 might have tried to turn back to Kuala Lumpur before contact was lost, a detail that prompted a search for the plane on both sides of the Malaysian peninsula.

A U.S. Navy P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft has been searching the northern Strait of Malacca, west of Malaysia, while destroyers USS Kidd and USS Pinckney have been deploying helicopters in the Gulf of Thailand to the east.

So far the U.S., like other nations taking part in the search, has had no success. Many aviation experts are concluding that searchers might not have been looking in the right places. Even if the plane broke up in midair, it would have left telltale traces of debris in the ocean. The cracks now emerging between some of the participants in the search could make it even more difficult.

You can help search for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, thanks to a website called Tomnod.com. It allows anyone to comb the area where rescue workers are searching using satellite images. The WSJ's Deborah Kan speaks to DigitalGlobe's Luke Barrington.

Diplomatic feuds over air disasters have generally erupted over the conclusions of the investigations, long after the initial search is over.

The results of the 1999 crash of an Egyptair Boeing 767 en route to Egypt from New York, which killed 217 people, spawned a dispute between Washington and Cairo that strained ties for years. The National Transportation Safety Board concluded the plane's co-pilot purposely put the twin-engine jet into a steep dive and then resisted efforts by the captain to recover control before the airliner slammed into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Nantucket. Egyptian authorities insisted the evidence indicated mechanical failure.

Years earlier, Washington and Paris butted heads over the investigation of an American Eagle commuter turboprop that crashed in 1994 near Roselawn, Ind. The French objected to the NTSB's conclusions that French regulators failed to take actions that could have prevented the accident.

A member of Singapore's military looks out of a transport plane over the South China Sea to search for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 on Tuesday. Reuters
—Jon Ostrower, Trefor Moss, Gaurav Raghuvanshi and Josh Chin contributed to this article.

Write to Andy Pasztor at andy.pasztor@wsj.com

Jack1985

That's what happened to Air Helios flight circa 2006. But could this plane have continued on without hitting someone's airspace for that long?

If not radar identified yes, it could have been like a ghost flight through consecutive airspaces unless somebody working on primary radar saw it.

Well why? I suppose maybe for false hope the people on board didn't actually die?

All very much unknown at this stage.

Mint Sauce

Jack1985 wrote: »

Possible but the link stated ''possibility of it being used for another use'' which suggest engines were shut down normally and did not flame out (i.e. ran out of uel). This development has me sick in the pit of my stomach.

Been kinda following this thread, and first post on the subject, but when you say shut down normally, do you mean landed somewhere and shut down, or shut down by correct procedure whilst in the air?

If this is the case, how could this only be coming to light now, surprised none of the news networks have caught on to this yet, as quite a major development if true, and scarey looking at that coverage map.

irishmover

Jack1985 wrote: »

All very much unknown at this stage.

Don't get ya. I was asking why you were feeling sick to your stomach..

nbar12

This is the real life story of Lost.

Jack1985

Been kinda following this thread, and first post on the subject, but when you say shut down normally, do you mean landed somewhere and shut down, or shut down by correct procedure whilst in the air?

If this is the case, how could this only be coming to light now, surprised none of the news networks have caught on to this yet, as quite a major development if true, and scarey looking at that coverage map.

Yes, so engines were manually disabled that could have been done in the air, however I believe the suggestion of it ''being used again'' means they believe on the ground (speculation). It was leaked from Rolls-Royce.

irishmover wrote: »

Don't get ya. I was asking why you were feeling sick to your stomach..

Sorry, because the two journalists who wrote this for the WSJ are renowned for there no bull****, fact stories, I really doubt they'd throw away that reputation without hard facts. Andy Pasztor the writer, is a fact-man an excellent reporter to aviation and one of the few people who does the sector justice.

irishmover

Jack1985 wrote: »

Sorry, because the two journalists who wrote this for the WSJ are renowned for there no bull****, fact stories, I really doubt they'd throw away that reputation without hard facts.

I'm still not sure why you'd be sick to your stomach from this development. It's mildly positive if anything.