Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Kavs8

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Could have they disabled the transponder so there would be no radar blip?

Nope that's not possible, definitely not on secondary radar which I believe they have in that area.

Tigerandahalf

I was reading that this was a flight after midnight. So similar to the Air France flight. One of the pilots could have been on a rest/sleep break away from the cockpit.
Does flightradar track through radar or GPS? If it hadn't been seen on radar for 40 mins what technology are flightradar using?

Kavs8

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I was reading that this was a flight after midnight. So similar to the Air France flight. One of the pilots could have been on a rest/sleep break away from the cockpit.
Does flightradar track through radar or GPS? If it hadn't been seen on radar for 40 mins what technology are flightradar using?

Flight was less then 6hrs long, only two flight deck crew.

Flightradar tracks using radar by getting access to the transponder code know as ADS-B.

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

Flight was less then 6hrs long, only two flight deck crew.

So only 2 in total in the cockpit?

Kavs8

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So only 2 in total in the cockpit?

Indeed and a highly experienced captain.

EI-DOR

So only 2 in total in the cockpit?

Indeed!!

Calina

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I was reading that this was a flight after midnight. So similar to the Air France flight. One of the pilots could have been on a rest/sleep break away from the cockpit.
Does flightradar track through radar or GPS? If it hadn't been seen on radar for 40 mins what technology are flightradar using?

http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

Worth noting that Vietnam and Malaysia are, timewise, an hour apart. I have the impression there is a lot of confusion over the exact timeline which may be linked to that.

regards

Kavs8

Calina wrote: »

http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works

Worth noting that Vietnam and Malaysia are, timewise, an hour apart. I have the impression there is a lot of confusion over the exact timeline which may be linked to that.

regards

Flight was scheduled to depart Kuala Lumpur at 00:35 local, arriving in Beijing at 06:30 local.

The flight departed at 00:41 local (16:41 GMT) and was off radar by 01:20 local Malaysia time or 00:20 local time in Vietnam (17:20 GMT).

Kavs8

In what to me is the most surreal news ever, CNN's Business Traveller were filming both the Captain and First Officer of this flight on 19 February on a 777-200 from Hong Kong to Kuala Lumpur - Both looked like really nice lads.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/03/08/newday-quest-malaysia-plane-search.cnn.html

Tigerandahalf

From what I'm reading on that flightradar site there seems to be quite a lot of difference between tracking system on different airplanes.
Is there not a single system (GPS) between plane, satellite and air traffic control?

Kavs8

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

From what I'm reading on that flightradar site there seems to be quite a lot of difference between tracking system on different airplanes.
Is there not a single system (GPS) between plane, satellite and air traffic control?

All you need to know is this aircraft by law carries a transponder that transponder in turns transmits information including the aircraft's position, height, vertical speed, speed, track, the actual transponder code, the aircraft type and the routeing of the plane.

In addition to this, if the transponder malfunctions the flight can still be traced on secondary radar, albeit without lots of information - With a plane missing from radar that usually signifies the worst.

What will be of very big significant interest is what messages if any were sent via the ACARS system from the flight to Malaysia Airlines.

Popoutman

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Is there not a single system (GPS) between plane, satellite and air traffic control?

GPS is not a tracking system - it's a means of obtaining a position. It's possible to use that information afterwards in a tracking system.

GPS is good, but generally not to be relied on completely as it does have its flaws. Very useful all the same!

djmcr

Sully wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but if the flight went off radar within 40mins, why did ATA or whomever respond so late? Is it normal procedure to wait until the flight is expected to land before declaring an emergency?

See this re Alerting Service that ATC provides, there are a number of phases that follow in relation to uncertainty of aircraft missing depending on the phase of the flight

djmcr

Kavs8 wrote: »

All you need to know is this aircraft by law carries a transponder that transponder in turns transmits information including the aircraft's position, height, vertical speed, speed, track, the actual transponder code, the aircraft type and the routeing of the plane.

In addition to this, if the transponder malfunctions the flight can still be traced on secondary radar, albeit without lots of information - With a plane missing from radar that usually signifies the worst.

A/C can be tracked using primary radar which operates totally independently of the target aircraft

Kavs8

djmcr wrote: »

A/C can be tracked using primary radar which operates totally independently of the target aircraft

Indeed however without transponder information it becomes significantly more difficult to track on primary then on secondary as was the case in 9/11 I believe?

djmcr

Kavs8 wrote: »

Indeed however without transponder information it becomes significantly more difficult to track on primary then on secondary as was the case in 9/11 I believe?

But with primary radar, aircraft, if still there it can be tracked with primary radar (within radar head limits)whilst with secondary if all systems fail onboard ATC has no information

Kavs8

djmcr wrote: »

But with primary radar, aircraft, if still there it can be tracked with primary radar (within radar head limits)whilst with secondary if all systems fail onboard ATC has no information

Ah ok thanks for that, just wondering it's been reported the system in Vietnamese airspace changed from primary to secondary in order to meet regulations recently, if everything failed then they would have had nothing right?

Stinicker

I am very concerned about everything I have read so far and to me it is looking more and more like a terrorist attack to me right now. There is a large islamic insurgency problem in Southern Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and in Mindanao in the Philippines. Added to last weeks attacks in Kunming Train Station I am leaning towards this being an attack against China and with an added mix of enough Westerners to give these sickos the global attention which they seek.

djmcr

Kavs8 wrote: »

Ah ok thanks for that, just wondering it's been reported the system in Vietnamese airspace changed from primary to secondary in order to meet regulations recently, if everything failed then they would have had nothing right?

If they only had secondary and all systems onboard failed then they shouldnt have anything as secondary radar depends on a return from the aircraft.

Tigerandahalf

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-live-3219331

knucklehead6

Stinicker wrote: »

I am very concerned about everything I have read so far and to me it is looking more and more like a terrorist attack to me right now. There is a large islamic insurgency problem in Southern Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and in Mindanao in the Philippines. Added to last weeks attacks in Kunming Train Station I am leaning towards this being an attack against China and with an added mix of enough Westerners to give these sickos the global attention which they seek.

But we are now 18 hours after contact was lost. No one has claimed anything.

Calina

I think absent any wreckage, speculation on the cause is not helpful.

Stinicker

knucklehead6 wrote: »

But we are now 18 hours after contact was lost. No one has claimed anything.

No one ever claimed anything on MH653 back in 1977 either.

Tigerandahalf

The plane supposedly had a recent runway crash where the tip of the wing was knocked off by another plane. A bad or inadequate repair job could be an issue. I know it is speculation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576087/Malaysia-Airlines-says-plane-missing.html

"Vietnamese state media, quoting a senior naval official, had reported that the Boeing 777-200ER flight had crashed off south Vietnam, but those reports have been denied, with the plane listed as 'missing'.
The Vietnamese Navy confirmed it detected the aircraft's emergency locator signal 153 miles south of Phu Quoc island in the South China sea.
Admiral Ngo Van Phat told the Vietnamese newspaper Tuoi Tre that radar showed the aircraft had crashed into the sea off the southern tip of Vietnam, close to the border with Cambodia."

Kavs8

Is there really a need to post links to the Mirror and Daily Mail possibly two of the worst forms of journalism?? We've covered the ground incident a few pages back also.

Theresalwaysone

Calina wrote: »

I think absent any wreckage, speculation on the cause is not helpful.

These kind of posts are beyond stupid.

This is an Irish Internet Forum.

How is speculation here unhelpful? In fact... what would people do on a discussion forum if not discuss the events or possible events?

We essentially only know the plane is gone missing and people are looking for it. Should we close the thread now, and only open it sporadically as more information filters through, let people comment on those facts and then swiftly and efficiently close the thread again lest some amateur sleuth decide he wants to speculate?

fr336

Kavs8 wrote: »

Is there really a need to post links to the Mirror and Daily Mail possibly two of the worst forms of journalism?? We've covered the ground incident a few pages back also.

I dunno, I don't like the Daily Mail print edition but its website is very informative and accessible. If I want more detailed and unbiased analysis, I'll head elsewhere after getting the headlines on the DM site.

Kavs8

It's now exactly 24hrs since the MH370 disappeared from radar 90nm northeast of Kota Bharu in Malaysia in shallow waters, in the 21st century it should not be that difficult to find a state of the art aircraft. However they found AF447 in one of the deepest oceans in the world, so there is no hope lost. Terrible for the families to have to continue thinking ''what if'' 24hrs after the event at this stage.

Tigerandahalf

I don't see the problem with speculating or trying to figure out what might have happened.
It is a discussion forum and once people are respectful I see no issue.

Stinicker

There is a good discussion about this over on PPRUNE,

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-mh370-contact-lost.html

This disaster is looking more and more suspect from the arguments made on that forum.