Irish born but US father query ..help...

snowbell

Hi I am a 35 year old Irish Citizen born and raised my mother is also born and raised in Ireland however my father is an American citizen and was only visiting Ireland for a year when he met my mother. I have only been in contact with him for a little over a year now as he was not aware I was born (my mother didn't tell him). Although when I did contact him he was not very surprised to hear the news and he just accepted it as fact. My question is as my mother is not a very reliable source of information how do I ask this man for a dna test as I dont want to offend him or want to be having contact with a man that turns out not to be my father?? Also as he is an American I have sourced some information on my entitlement to US citizenship and as he is a us citizen and if he does a dna to prove paternity what is the procedure from then? Has anyone been in this situation?? I have emailed the US Embassy in Dublin but dont find it very helpful so any help would be appriciated. Thanks

sopretty

I'm not sure about the Visa issue, but I know solicitors tend to handle these sorts of cases.

In terms of the DNA test, as far as I know, under Irish Law, both your Dad and yourself need to be physically in the same room at the time of testing, if the test will be needed for legal reasons.

Your first port of call might be to ring up a DNA test facility here in Ireland. They will fill you in.

You might also ask on the Legal Discussions forum, as they people there would have more information on the legalities around the testing and application for citizenship.

snowbell

sopretty wrote: »

I'm not sure about the Visa issue, but I know solicitors tend to handle these sorts of cases.

In terms of the DNA test, as far as I know, under Irish Law, both your Dad and yourself need to be physically in the same room at the time of testing, if the test will be needed for legal reasons.

Your first port of call might be to ring up a DNA test facility here in Ireland. They will fill you in.

You might also ask on the Legal Discussions forum, as they people there would have more information on the legalities around the testing and application for citizenship.

Thanks for the reply. The dna is mainly for my own reasons dont want to get my hopes up talking to someone that turns out isnt my dad but another issue is how to approach the subject with him without offending him

sopretty

I'm sure he wouldn't be offended. He might like to have the confirmation himself.

snowbell

sopretty wrote: »

I'm sure he wouldn't be offended. He might like to have the confirmation himself.

My only contact with him at the monent is through email and he hasn't questioned paternity which I'm finding a bit difficult

sopretty

Are you on friendly terms with him?

snowbell

Were on speaking terms but any family questions I have asked he side steps and changes the subject. He is happy to tell me about himself. He has 3 children and is married but every time I ask about them he doesnt respond? Just makes general conversation

sopretty

Ok, so would it be safe to say that he probably doesn't want contact? Has he told his wife and children about you, do you know?

LostinKildare

I'm not sure you can get US citizenship in your situation. For a person born outside the US, out of wedlock, and claiming citizenship through a US citizen father, you generally have to apply before you're 18. That's my reading of it, anyway. See this (scroll down to C, "Child Born Out of Wedlock")

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartH-Chapter3.html#S-C

There's also this:
"I am claiming U.S. citizenship through my father. My parents were not married at the time of my birth. Does this affect whether I automatically acquired citizenship?

It may. [SNIP -- material about if you were born after November 14, 1986] . . . If you were born out of wedlock, are claiming that you acquired U.S. citizenship at the time of your birth, and you were born between January 13, 1941 and November 14, 1986, you must establish that your paternity was established by legitimation while you were under the age of 21."
http://www.uscis.gov/forms/n-600-application-certificate-citizenship-frequently-asked-questions


It doesn't look good (sorry). But I would ring the US Embassy to check all this. You might as well first establish for certain whether there's any chance of acquiring citizenship before you ask your supposed father for a DNA test

neemish

"Different rules apply to a child born out of wedlock outside the US. If the mother of an "illegitimate" child is a US citizen, her foreign-born child is a US citizen by birth if she had ever spent at least one year's worth of continuous literal, physical presence in the US. If the father is a US citizen (and the mother is not), the child is a US citizen only if the father's paternity is formally established and if the father has agreed to support the child." http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html

I know you are not a child, but thought this might be of help. AFAIK, you are entitled to US citizenship if you can prove paternity. Either the US Embassy or the State Dept in DC should be able to help (but I have had family members who have had contact with them, and they can be notoriously meticulous about rules and regs!)

So your first move should be to prove paternity. Look, its in both your interests to find out at an early stage. And maybe put it to him that way.

snowbell

sopretty wrote: »

Ok, so would it be safe to say that he probably doesn't want contact? Has he told his wife and children about you, do you know?

His family are aware of me but he wont speak about them which makes me think maybe he has the same paternity questions.

snowbell

The citizenship was only a very small part of it my main interest is to verify if the man is my dad and to ask him without offending him as he seems to just accept it as is ?

sopretty

Snowbell, he is probably wanting to ask the same question himself! Just explain, that you just want definitive 'closure' on the question of paternity. I'm sure he would understand you wanting to know for definite.

snowbell

Ye its the all in the wording I suppose never thought that he probably wants to ask the same thing. I'm a very straight forward person usually but just wasnt sure about this situation

neemish

Maybe explain to him that from an emotional point of view, you need to know one way or the other. This has little or nothing to do with citizenship, etc but needing to know who your Dad is! And that you don't want both of you to emotionally invest in this relationship if in fact, you are no relation.

On the other hand, you may be willing to just accept this man as Dad without any proof. Only you can answer that question.

snowbell

Am uneasy with the aspect of ''just accepting'' I feel like I need to have an answer. I dont fell I can connect with him until I know we are related

username123

Have you exchanged photos? It may be you have a strong family resemblance to someone on his side and he know by looking at you that you are blood relatives.

It happened a lady I know who traced her birth mother, she was first met by her half brother who burst into tears on sight as she had such a strong family resemblance.

So he may be so accepting because the truth is written on your face.

snowbell

I'm uneasy to ''just accept'' without any proof I feel I need it to move foward in this situation and I think it would be good for both of us to have a 100% positive answer

snowbell

He has sent a photo and I think there is a resemblance his wife agrees also. I sent him an email of me as a child to see if he thought I looked like his other children but once again he didnt answer

LostinKildare

Okay, leaving aside the citizenship issue ...

From what you've said it sounds like he thinks that he probably is your father. Perhaps he's holding back about his family because, well, you are a stranger to him (even if you are his son)? You've never met each other, he doesn't know you, or what you want from him. You don't yet have any trust built up between the two of you. Maybe he's trying to protect his family in case you turn out to be an unpleasant person?

I'm sure you're not, and I don't mean to offend! Just, from his side, a 35-year-old stranger out of the blue sends an email saying he's his son. You'd want to know him and trust him a bit before bringing him into the family fold. Can you invite him to visit you in Ireland? Americans love coming over here

I'd get to know each other a bit better before asking for a DNA test. Wouldn't it be better to know that you want to know each other, that you want to have some kind of a relationship with each other, before you're bound to each other by DNA?

snowbell

LostinKildare wrote: »

Okay, leaving aside the citizenship issue ...

From what you've said it sounds like he thinks that he probably is your father. Perhaps he's holding back about his family because, well, you are a stranger to him (even if you are his son)? You've never met each other, he doesn't know you, or what you want from him. You don't yet have any trust built up between the two of you. Maybe he's trying to protect his family in case you turn out to be an unpleasant person?

I'm sure you're not, and I don't mean to offend! Just, from his side, a 35-year-old stranger out of the blue sends an email saying he's his son. You'd want to know him and trust him a bit before bringing him into the family fold. Can you invite him to visit you in Ireland? Americans love coming over here

I'd get to know each other a bit better before asking for a DNA test. Wouldn't it be better to know that you want to know each other, that you want to have some kind of a relationship with each other, before you're bound to each other by DNA?

I understand the trust issue as its the same one im having myself lol and I'd be his daughter so no offence taken. I should have said earlier that I contacted him 8 years ago and spoke to him twice on the phone. I sent him letters (before I could email lol) and he ignored them. When I asked him last year if he got the he said yes he had received them and was very touched but he didnt want it to affect his life in the US which was hurtful

LostinKildare

oops, sorry, daughter --- don't know how I made that wrong assumption

Yes, that is hurtful. So he was keeping you at arm's length 8 years ago. It sounds like he's doing the same now by keeping you in the dark about his family --- he's happy to know you, but he doesn't want it to affect his life in the US. Seems kind of cruel --- are you sure you want a relationship with him?

Maybe think over what a DNA test would accomplish. Assuming he would agree to it --- and he might not, since that would tie him to a daughter he seems to want to keep at a distance --- how would a DNA confirmation change things? You say you need proof to "move forward in this situation." Move forward how? To feel more connected to him? Do you want to feel more connected to someone who appears to be conflicted about whether he wants to be connected to you? Or do you think that if paternity was confirmed, he'd be more warm towards you?

Maybe he would. Lay it out in an email to him, tell him what you want. But protect yourself, snowbell. Maybe he's an unpleasant person.

bee06

I'm sure that if you explained to him what you told us about your mother being somewhat unreliable and that you'd like the DNA test to put your mind at ease he would understand.

snowbell

LostinKildare wrote: »

oops, sorry, daughter --- don't know how I made that wrong assumption

Yes, that is hurtful. So he was keeping you at arm's length 8 years ago. It sounds like he's doing the same now by keeping you in the dark about his family --- he's happy to know you, but he doesn't want it to affect his life in the US. Seems kind of cruel --- are you sure you want a relationship with him?

Maybe think over what a DNA test would accomplish. Assuming he would agree to it --- and he might not, since that would tie him to a daughter he seems to want to keep at a distance --- how would a DNA confirmation change things? You say you need proof to "move forward in this situation." Move forward how? To feel more connected to him? Do you want to feel more connected to someone who appears to be conflicted about whether he wants to be connected to you? Or do you think that if paternity was confirmed, he'd be more warm towards you?

Maybe he would. Lay it out in an email to him, tell him what you want. But protect yourself, snowbell. Maybe he's an unpleasant person.

I shouldn't really be concerned about his feelings about asking for the test and the main reason behind it would be closure for me to I suppose stop searching in a way. I'd like to be 100 % the person I am speaking to regardless of how briefly his contact is, is actually my dad. I mean its natural I think to want to know where I come from and at 35 I just think it's time.

Teyla Emmagan

snowbell wrote: »

I shouldn't really be concerned about his feelings about asking for the test and the main reason behind it would be closure for me to I suppose stop searching in a way. I'd like to be 100 % the person I am speaking to regardless of how briefly his contact is, is actually my dad. I mean its natural I think to want to know where I come from and at 35 I just think it's time.

This is utterly reasonable and exactly what you should say to him. Just tell him that you need to rule out any possibility for doubt. Any decent person will understand that. And getting the test done should break down barriers between you, he might open up then about his other kids. To be fair to the man he could be wary of you too. I am sure there are plenty of tests you can do without being in the same room.

Big Bag of Chips

The problem with doing a test from different locations is you can't be sure whose DNA is being tested. I know he has accepted without question that he is your father. But if he is keeping you at arms length and doesn't really want to include you in his family, then there's nothing to stop him from asking a friend to do the swab, and then "discovering" that he is not actually your father.. then no more communication and no more awkwardness with his family.

I know it's a bit fae fetched, and CSI, but if you are going to go to the trouble of asking for and doing a DNA test, then you need to make every provision to ensure it is done correctly.

Slutmonkey57b

There are a couple of different issues here: you want confirmation of paternity, and you're looking for some sort of connection.

I think you should put the second issue to one side for the moment, because that takes two people to work through their issues and emotions. Asking about his other kids and family puts a focus for him on "how does this affect my home life?" and it's natural he would want to protect that in case the dna test is negative, or things go badly with you and him. Right now, you're not in the position of being "family" to him, just like he isn't to you. So just ask for the DNA test like others have said, and if it's positive ask for family medical history you might need to know about.

After that, talk to him about yourself and your life, and let him decide when he's ready to talk to you about his (probably much younger) other kids.