Missing a death record

hjr

Hi there,

My great grandfather was married twice, his first wife dying young. The problem is I can't find her death record. I have found their marriage record and I've also found the marriage record for his second marriage, but no death record of his first wife dying. She died between 1903 and 1905.

Has anyone else come across an issue of not being able to trace a death record?

Her name would have been Winnie Higgins, and the registration district should be Boyle...

Thanks for any help!

L1011

The familysearch transcriptions are not 100% complete or 100% accurate. You may have to go to the GRO and search manually. There are also very rare occurances of a maiden name being used by mistake that I've come across.

There's only one even close match I can see, a Winafred Higgins but she was a lot older and died a bit earlier.

There's also the general Irish issue of non-given names being used - someone called Winnie might have had a completely different birth name - have you got her birth and marriage certs?

hjr

Thanks MYOB,

Her maiden name was McManus, and her marriage record indicates she used the name Winnie, however I know from talking to family members she was also known as Mary Ellen...

There's a possibility she may have died during childbirth. I'm not sure if a hospital would have been involved 100 years ago, but if it was would that mean the death record would be listed in the reg district of the hospital instead? Or would it always be registered in the area in which she resided?

Thanks

shanew

hjr wrote: »

....would that mean the death record would be listed in the reg district of the hospital instead? Or would it always be registered in the area in which she resided?

Births, Marriages and Deaths were supposed to be registered in the district they took place in.

L1011

There's a lot more potential records for Mary (Ellen) than Winnie anyway. Is there any chance of locating a grave to get the time window locked down?

Hospital births would have been increasingly common in urban areas in that time period but by no means universal. Roscommon County Hospital had maternity services in the past albeit it was built well after your time period, so its likely the previous infirmary did too; it was in Roscommon Town also.

hjr

I'm very familiar with the family grave, but there's no record on the grave to indicate she's buried there. I think the next step may be checking with the local priest to check his death records.

Waitsian

hjr wrote: »

I think the next step may be checking with the local priest to check his death records.

Good luck with that!

Unless you live in an urban area, with a municipal graveyard, I don't fancy your chances.

hjr

mod9maple wrote: »

Good luck with that!

Unless you live in an urban area, with a municipal graveyard, I don't fancy your chances.

Thankfully the priest is my local priest as is the graveyard. Its a rural area. If I can find out about the death from him I can then narrow my GRO search....hopefully!

hjr

mod9maple wrote: »

Good luck with that!

Unless you live in an urban area, with a municipal graveyard, I don't fancy your chances.

Thankfully the priest is my local priest as is the graveyard. Its a rural area. If I can find out about the death from him I can then narrow my GRO search....hopefully!

L1011

Main issue is that very few parishes actually kept a record of burials for whatever reason.

CeannRua

hjr wrote: »

Thanks MYOB,

Her maiden name was McManus, and her marriage record indicates she used the name Winnie, however I know from talking to family members she was also known as Mary Ellen...

There's a possibility she may have died during childbirth. I'm not sure if a hospital would have been involved 100 years ago, but if it was would that mean the death record would be listed in the reg district of the hospital instead? Or would it always be registered in the area in which she resided?

Thanks

Re maybe dying in childbirth, did the baby live or die? Perhaps see if you can cross-reference eg if they both died they might be listed one after the other.

dido2

I was just thinking the same as Ceann Rua and there is a death record for a Female Higgins in April - June 1904 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FTF8-83X Might be worth getting that to see if its for your family...

L1011

If someone has access to Ancestry they should be able to see the other entries on that index page easily enough, its a bit of a pain on Familysearch and Ancestry ask you to pay for those records.

dido2

Ancestry show them the same MYOB just as individual records, it's only marriages they group together

dido2

I just checked to be sure and all it shows is the same as on Familysearch

What would have been the closest hospital to Boyle?? Possible baby born at home died and mother was brought to hospital and died there and possibly not in the Boyle Registration district?

L1011

Abbeytown Infirmary in Roscommon or St Patricks in Carrick on Shannon I'd guess.

dido2

You say theres no record of her on her grave, do you know where she originally came from, alot of times the wife was buried with her own family and the husband with his own family...

Do you have her in the 1901 Census to get a rough idea of her age?

KildareFan

If she's buried in the graveyard of the local church, the priest should have the burial records to know who's buried where. Also, a local undertaker might have the records if the graveyard is still in use.

L1011

KildareFan wrote: »

If she's buried in the graveyard of the local church, the priest should have the burial records to know who's buried where. Also, a local undertaker might have the records if the graveyard is still in use.

You'd be surprised how few parishes have decent (or any) burial records. Undertakers were rarely used in rural areas in the past. Worth checking but definitely not something to rely on.

dido2

MYOB
We've found the same, so far no church we've dealt with has any burial records, most have only started doing them in the last few years...

The register holder for the graveyard would be the best bet to find out who's buried in each grave...

hjr

Thanks for all the responses!

I've traced her on the 1901 census, she was still unmarried, and will be checking that parish once I rule out my own.

In relation to the child, he lived, so unless she died during another labour, I'm working on the possibility that I'm not looking for a child.

I think once I trace it in a parish register only then can I begin to look for the official record. Its just strange that she isn't listed..

L1011

hjr wrote: »

In relation to the child, he lived, so unless she died during another labour, I'm working on the possibility that I'm not looking for a child.
.

Could still have died during that labour and hence had the off-district registration theorised above. I have a case of that in my tree, mother died and child survived. Something to not rule out just yet (unfortunately!)

hjr

MYOB wrote: »

Could still have died during that labour and hence had the off-district registration theorised above. I have a case of that in my tree, mother died and child survived. Something to not rule out just yet (unfortunately!)

Yep, I think her death is definitely related to the birth, I just want to prove it!

dido2

What year was she born roughly?? Her death may not have been registered for many years later, something I've seen a few times where it was only registered once there was a need for a death cert or it just simply wasn't registered until later...

The first one of these looks like a good possibilty https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AWinnie~%20%2Bsurname%3AHiggins~%20%2Bdeath_place%3ABoyle%20%2Bdeath_year%3A1903-1958~&collection_id=1408347

Name Wennie Higgins
Event Type Death
Event Date Jan - Mar 1911
Event Place Boyle, Ireland
Age 30
Birth Year (Estimated) 1881
Volume Number 4
Page Number 64


Name Winifred Higgins
Event Type Death
Event Date Apr - Jun 1954
Event Place Boyle, Ireland
Age 79
Birth Year (Estimated) 1875
Volume Number 4
Page Number 46

hjr

dido2 wrote: »

What year was she born roughly?? Her death may not have been registered for many years later, something I've seen a few times where it was only registered once there was a need for a death cert or it just simply wasn't registered until later...

The first one of these looks like a good possibilty https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AWinnie~%20%2Bsurname%3AHiggins~%20%2Bdeath_place%3ABoyle%20%2Bdeath_year%3A1903-1958~&collection_id=1408347

Name Wennie Higgins
Event Type Death
Event Date Jan - Mar 1911
Event Place Boyle, Ireland
Age 30
Birth Year (Estimated) 1881
Volume Number 4
Page Number 64


Name Winifred Higgins
Event Type Death
Event Date Apr - Jun 1954
Event Place Boyle, Ireland
Age 79
Birth Year (Estimated) 1875
Volume Number 4
Page Number 46

Thanks Dido2,

I never heard of a death being registered at a later date before! Will the death record state the actual date of death? The first record you listed would seem to make sense, as I have her on the 1901 census as being born in 1882...

dido2

Hi HJR

I've never actually seen a death record that was registered later, but I've seen many posts like your own looking for a death record but not being able to find them, then someone suggests one registered many years later and it turns out to be right, but I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned what the date of death was on it, i'd imagine it would have to give the correct date of date a bit like births and marriages where they may be registered months later but would still have the correct dates of birth or marriage.. It certainly would be worth a look at that record anyway!!

Louise