RTÉ start court fight with TV3 over pre-ASO dual transmission fees

The Cush

The Sunday Times today in an article states that RTÉ is taking TV3 to court over transmission fees of almost €1 million owed to them from the dual transmission period in the lead up to ASO in Oct 2012.

Talks on the issue have broken down between them in recent months.

The two broadcasters dispute what is owed for this period and require a third party to interpret the contract between them.

The article also states there was a similar standoff in relation to DTT fees last year but that this was resolved several months into the contract with TV3 making a cash payment to RTÉ.

The €10 million dispute over analogue transmission fees should be concluded soon - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89372749#post89372749

watty

TV3 are like Icahn, or to be specific the owner is.

TV3 also NEVER EVER paid or was carried on the last 20% of Analogue via relays in contravention of their licence conditions.

The owner's debt has now been massively subsidised by Irish Taxpayer.

Stinicker

Could this have any implications for TV3 ever coming to Saorsat?

byte

I doubt TV3 will ever, or had plans to, go on Saorsat.

loyatemu

TV3 presumably going to be in big trouble either way once UTV-I launch next year?

mackersdublin

byte wrote: »

I doubt TV3 will ever, or had plans to, go on Saorsat.

Or launch TV3 HD

lertsnim

loyatemu wrote: »

TV3 presumably going to be in big trouble either way once UTV-I launch next year?

I'd say they are screwed myself. And would anybody really miss TV3 if they went? Apart from their employees of course.

They are an awful channel. I don't expect UTV to be much better mind you.

Gonzo

lertsnim wrote: »

I'd say they are screwed myself. And would anybody really miss TV3 if they went? Apart from their employees of course.

They are an awful channel. I don't expect UTV to be much better mind you.

agreed, TV3 is terrible, wouldnt care if they were gone tomorrow and UTV look like a shoe string operation, there programming and branding looks really cheap and amateur compared to anything by the main ITV network.

galtee boy

lertsnim wrote: »

I'd say they are screwed myself. And would anybody really miss TV3 if they went? Apart from their employees of course.

They are an awful channel. I don't expect UTV to be much better mind you.

Im not a TV3 fan by any means, but considering that they have to survive on advertising revenue alone, unlike RTE who have a huge advantage by having the licence fee and advertising, are they really as bad as we make them out to be ? As for UTV Ireland, they haven't even launched yet, so lets not bash them just yet, they deserve credit for venturing into the tiny ROI market, so lets just see what they come with.

lertsnim

galtee boy wrote: »

are they really as bad as we make them out to be ?

Yes they are. Rubbish schedule and awful home grown programming.

galtee boy wrote: »

As for UTV Ireland, they haven't even launched yet, so lets not bash them just yet, they deserve credit for venturing into the tiny ROI market, so lets just see what they come with.

UTV Ireland is going to be a carbon copy of what's already available. Same programmes on elsewhere (Just like TV3). Forgive me for not being excited.

Elmo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057165329

I don't think 2RN should be running after TV3. It just puts this red herring back into the news. Hopefully it can go through the courts quickly.

channelsurfer2

galtee boy wrote: »

Im not a TV3 fan by any means, but considering that they have to survive on advertising revenue alone, unlike RTE who have a huge advantage by having the licence fee and advertising, are they really as bad as we make them out to be ? As for UTV Ireland, they haven't even launched yet, so lets not bash them just yet, they deserve credit for venturing into the tiny ROI market, so lets just see what they come with.

leaving aside the issue of the licence fee and rte, the issue here is that TV3 want a free ride on saorview and will take every opportunity to bleat about unfair competition.

STB

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

leaving aside the issue of the licence fee and rte, the issue here is that TV3 want a free ride on saorview and will take every opportunity to bleat about unfair competition.

Least we forget that TV3 had their €81 million "b note" debt completely written off and then the private equity company that own them were able to buy the remaining €60 million debt at a discount using more money loaned/financed partly by the NPRF. You really couldnt make this stuff up.

This private commercial company might as well have received a years tax payers TV licence income in its entirety ?

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Least we forget that TV3 had their €81 million "b note" debt completely written off and then the private equity company that own them were able to buy the remaining €60 million debt at a discount using more money loaned/financed partly by the NPRF. You really couldnt make this stuff up.

According to their 2012 accounts their "A" debt was €59.1m, comprising of bank loans and overdrafts of €52.6m and guarantees of €6.5m. This is the IBRC debt purchased at a discount by their owners Doughty Hanson.

TV3 also owe their parent company €52.6m in intercompany loans.

Regarding the €81.1m "B" debt, this amount is still outstanding and is parked in agreement with the group, shareholders and lenders and appears as nil in the company accounts. It is only repayable in certain circumstances. Thread here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056548979

watty

It's a national shame.

Andy454

Do they really owe RTE transmission fees?

As we are the licence fee payees, we own the network, we paid for the transmission power.

Communications networks need to be segregated properly in this country.

The licence fee should cover the broadcast of all licenced operators in the state.

If you pay your licence fee, your paying to keep your local transmitter site on the air.

The station must then provide for it's staff and content via advertising.

Its the only fair model - similar to the way electricity networks currently operate.

The "standing charge" pays for the network you then pay your operator for power.

The licence fee should be split in two, part to pay for the upkeep of the broadcast system and second for Public broadcasting.

RTENL don't use any additional power now to transmit rte1, rte2, tv3, 3e and tg4 - they're carried across two transponders, which in the analogue days would have carried just two channels, one per transponder. (it's not costing anything extra to transmit RTENL test cards!!)

Not that I'm a fan of tv3, but I'd sooner slip into insultancy watching TV3 clap trap than watching RTE state sponsored pretentious dribble...

And I like looking at their big Andrew's dishes on the Ballymount road... us Andy's stick together....

Elmo

Andy454 wrote: »

Do they really owe RTE transmission fees?

As we are the licence fee payees, we own the network, we paid for the transmission power.

Communications networks need to be segregated properly in this country.

The licence fee should cover the broadcast of all licenced operators in the state.

If you pay your licence fee, your paying to keep your local transmitter site on the air.

The licence fee should only be for programming. Currently that role is divide between the BAI, RTÉ and TG4 (largely RTÉ).

The Network should be a separate entity and Public service broadcasters (RTÉ and TG4) should use advertising/commercial revenues to pay for the provision of transmission.

Yes the public did set up the transmission service through a public company, that however does not entitle commercial entities to profit from such investment.

You would have to regulate that such money saved would provide additional home produced programming on such private services and that there is a more diverse range of Irish TV broadcasters in the market.

It is not only TV that uses the network.

Andy454

Elmo wrote: »

Yes the public did set up the transmission service through a public company, that however does not entitle commercial entities to profit from such investment.

It is not only TV that uses the network.

The cost of "setting up" the transmission network is prohibitive on commercial entities - It has been one of the biggest barriers to entry by commercial DTT operators.

The idea behind public / government is for the greater good and to service areas of society where private investment may not be commercially viable.

The transmission assets and running of the network should be segregated from RTE and should obtain its running costs from the Licence fee fund directly.

The rest of the money should be directed to PSB's and they can make up their budgets via advertising.

RTE didn't pay for its broadcast, WE did - advertising makes up a small portion of its budget. If RTE didn't have the licence fee, we'd have one station on analogue in Dublin!

Elmo

We have paid for the network and it was dual funded. You can say RTÉ paid for some of it via commercial money but when you also receive licence fee such projects indirectly are paid for via both moneys unless you are a financially transparent as possible. So I agree we paid for the network

TV3 under canwest did as little as possible, I don't believe that it would have made a better TV3 had they not been charged for transmissions, not unless the BAI regulated TV3 properly. TV3 cut corners and tried to save money by only being available to 82% of the pop during the analogue era.

But unlike other countries we didn't see the private broadcasters setting up transmissions around the country. TV3 used RTÉ's transmission service because it was cheaper to use an established network rather then try to set up a new one. Name a country were transmission costs are free?

And during analogue there could only be 4 channels (some countries had a 5th). So why should the licence fee pay for transmission costs?

IMO the licence fee is there to produce programming, not for the transmission system so that a private company can put on imported programming and live of the state.

It might be different if for example we had other Irish TV broadcasters in the market.

The cost of "setting up" the transmission network is prohibitive on commercial entities - It has been one of the biggest barriers to entry by commercial DTT operators.

And each of the commercial operators want to resell the transmission network back to the audience. A network already paid for through the licence fee, why should such an entity be allow set up for free and then charge customers something they've already paid for?????

Onthe3rdDay

Andy454 wrote: »

The cost of "setting up" the transmission network is prohibitive on commercial entities - It has been one of the biggest barriers to entry by commercial DTT operators.

No one forced TV3 to apply for a license originally. When you set up a company you have costs. If it's television or Radio you need to have transmitters to get your pictures and sound to the public. In other countries this is understood. Private companies that set up a station have to finance their operation on advertising and other commerical sources of income.

In markets the same size and smaller than Ireland commercial stations appear to survive and thrive without government assistance, Are we not capable because we're Irish?

galtee boy

Andy454 wrote: »

The cost of "setting up" the transmission network is prohibitive on commercial entities - It has been one of the biggest barriers to entry by commercial DTT operators.


It hasn't put UTV off, they did comment that the cost of being on Saorview was on the high side, but admitted that they must be on it, along with presumably Sky and UPC.

watty

Andy454 wrote: »

The cost of "setting up" the transmission network is prohibitive on commercial entities - It has been one of the biggest barriers to entry by commercial DTT operators.


The transmission assets and running of the network should be segregated from RTE and should obtain its running costs from the Licence fee fund directly.

Much cheaper than Analogue

It is separate since about 2001. RTE-NL, now 2RN is separate bookkeeping accounts etc. Basically a separate company you can buy tomorrow. Though I think it should be a State Asset. Sell off of IBA & BBC Tx to Crown Castle / NTL-Arqiva in UK was a mistake.

Sam Russell

galtee boy wrote: »

Andy454 wrote: »

The cost of "setting up" the transmission network is prohibitive on commercial entities - It has been one of the biggest barriers to entry by commercial DTT operators.

It hasn't put UTV off, they did comment that the cost of being on Saorview was on the high side, but admitted that they must be on it, along with presumably Sky and UPC.

Transmission for Saorview would cost less if they had more muxes. One going on two is not enough for any economies. When we have four going on five, we might see 2RN charging less.

It appears TV3 have very little cash and no enthusiasm for spending what little they have.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

The Sunday Times today in an article states that RTÉ is taking TV3 to court over transmission fees of almost €1 million owed to them from the dual transmission period in the lead up to ASO in Oct 2012.

Talks on the issue have broken down between them in recent months.

The two broadcasters dispute what is owed for this period and require a third party to interpret the contract between them.

The article also states there was a similar standoff in relation to DTT fees last year but that this was resolved several months into the contract with TV3 making a cash payment to RTÉ.

The €10 million dispute over analogue transmission fees should be concluded soon - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89372749#post89372749

From yesterday's Sunday Indo

TV3's row with RTE over claims of €10m overcharging on transmission fees was cranked up last week, as RTE launched a lawsuit against the Ballymount-based station, claiming to be owed close to €500,000 in fees relating to Saorview transmission.

The dispute centres around fees for analogue and digital transmission of TV3 on the Saorview platform dating back to 2012.

"There is a dispute regarding the terms of that agreement. Extensive efforts were made by RTE over the past year to resolve this dispute without recourse to the courts. RTE has issued summary proceedings in the High Court for recovery of monies that are owing in respect of the services provided to TV3 under this agreement," according to State broadcaster RTE.

TV3 strongly disputes these claims and is defending the action vigorously.

Meanwhile, Com-Reg is completing its investigation into alleged overcharging of TV3 by RTE for transmission since 1998. Four years ago, ComReg launched the investigation following a complaint by TV3.

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/tv3s-row-with-rte-cranks-up-as-lawsuit-is-launched-30158157.html

The Cush

From today's Sunday Times

A high court row between RTE and TV3 over €1m in disputed fees for carriage on Saorview, RTÉ's digital platform, will go forward for a full hearing. RTE had sought a summary judgement late last year.

TV3's financial controller Denis James Corbett submitted an affidavit to the court in recent days outlining why it is disputing fees. It is thought they relate to the 2012 digital switchover (...), during which time TV3 was on Saorview and the old analogue system.

TV3 is also embroiled in a long running row with RTE over claims it overpaid transmission fees by €10m during a 10 year period.

The Cush

According to TV3's CRO filed accounts for 2013 they also appear to be in dispute over the fees for 2013. This could be related to the new regulated tariff structure published back in Nov 2013.

The Cush

Article in the Sunday Business Post yesterday which states that RTÉ has lodged papers in the High Court last week seeking a summary judgement for around €1m from TV3 over disputed transmission fees owed since 2013.

According to the article RTÉ and TV3 agreed an interim tariff of €1.5m per annum until Comreg made a decision on the tariff. RTÉ agreed to this provided once Comreg made the decision on the transmission tariff that any extra amount owed above the interim tariff would be paid by TV3.

Comreg published its final decision on the tariffs in Jan this year and determined TV3 should be paying €2m a year. The court case will deal with the fees owed.

Also the article states that RTÉ and TV3 settled their original case outside of court last year for fees owed during the period in 2012 when TV3 was transmitted on both analogue and Saorview.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

Also the article states that RTÉ and TV3 settled their original case outside of court last year for fees owed during the period in 2012 when TV3 was transmitted on both analogue and Saorview.

Does that mean TV3 paid up? Or RTÉ backed down?

gctest50

they could all have a product placement playdate and sort it out

RTE 'guests' charged thousands to flog brands on chat show

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/rte-guests-charged-thousands-to-flog-brands-on-chat-show-31030846.html

Elmo

gctest50 wrote: »

they could all have a product placement playdate and sort it out

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/rte-guests-charged-thousands-to-flog-brands-on-chat-show-31030846.html

Many years ago The BAI sought to introduce pp and they did and they light touch regulate it.

The Cush

"RTE and TV3 are due before the Commercial Court on Monday in a legal dispute over transmission tariffs." - http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/rte-and-tv3-in-legal-dispute-31047565.html

It is understood the figure in dispute is in the tens of thousands of euro. A spokeswoman for TV3 last night declined to comment on Monday's proceedings.

The figure is more like a million plus as the Commercial Court only deals with cases where the value of the claim is at least €1m. Also €1m was mentioned in last Sunday's SBP.

watty

TV3 should have had their licence revoked long before 2012 for this and other stunts (like really being insolvent).

The Tax payer has now paid off nearly 1/2 of TV3 debt.

TV3 should like everyone else pay the bills or close. It's not as if they provide a vital national service or significant Irish programming of a National Character.

What exactly is BAI regulating?

The Cush

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rte-suing-tv3-for-around-1m-in-dispute-over-alleged-failure-to-pay-for-digital-transmission-services-31052754.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/rt%C3%A9-takes-case-against-tv3-over-alleged-failure-to-pay-1m-1.2132303

The case was transferred to the fast-track Commercial Court by Mr Justice Brian McGovern on Monday on consent of the parties.
...
A hearing date for the action will be fixed later.
...
The dispute will return before the courts later this year.

RTÉ, represented by Cian Ferriter SC, claims sums of about €734,000 and €287,000 respectively are outstanding from TV3 for the provision of Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) multiplexing broadcasting and transmission services in 2013 and 2014.

The sums sought are the difference between what TV3 has paid for the service and what RTÉ alleges is owed for the relevant periods.

The court was told that TV3, represented by Maurice Collins SC, has a defence to RTÉ’s claim.

TV3 had raised issues about calculation of the tariffs with the commission for communications regulation, ComReg, which regulates the broadcasting market, RTÉ says.

ComReg had conducted a review of RTÉ’s tariffs and made a finding last January which RTÉ puts beyond doubt that the tariffs for the periods in question have been correctly calculated, RTÉ claims.

Despite ComReg’s decision, TV3 has not paid over the outstanding sums, it claims.

B17G

A compromise has been reached in the action by RTE against TV3 over alleged failure to pay about €1 million alleged to be outstanding for digital transmission services.


The case was transferred to the fast-track Commercial Court last March and Mr Justice Brian McGovern has been told a compromise had been reached to be implemented by the end of November........

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/compromise-reached-in-rt%C3%A9-action-against-tv3-1.2250211

Unknown as to what that compromise is.......

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rte-suing-tv3-for-around-1m-in-dispute-over-alleged-failure-to-pay-for-digital-transmission-services-31052754.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/rt%C3%A9-takes-case-against-tv3-over-alleged-failure-to-pay-1m-1.2132303

@The Cush would you be willing to put down a basic overview of this as you seemed to be following it better than anyone else here and often posters put articles about this situation with out know the full story.

Sam Russell

Those two press cuttings are nearly identical so they must come from a press release, either from TV3 or RTE - it is not obvious which one.

Could RTE pull the plug on TV3?

The Cush

This is the most likely reason, tying up the loose ends before final negotiations begin

icdg wrote: »

Sunday Times reporting today that Liberty Global are expected to enter into exclusive negotiations to buy TV3 "within the next fortnight".

The tariffs in dispute for 2013 and 2014 were approved by Comreg, not very likely they'd win and this would end up in the lap of the new owners later this year who could be footing a €1m bill plus legal fees for both sides. Doughty Hanson wants rid of TV3 and this removes an obstacle.

We can only guess for now what the compromise is, pay the amount owed over a certain period with each side paying its own legal fees? Let's see what happens in Dec.

The case was transferred to the fast-track Commercial Court last March and Mr Justice Brian McGovern has been told a compromise had been reached to be implemented by the end of November.

The judge listed the matter for mention in December for the purposes of confirming implementation.